Time for some reason

[Borchester]

I look around me at the news and all I can see is chaos. Once again those prepared to shout loudest get all the attention. Those prepared to take to the streets regardless of health safety or any other considerations bully the rest of us into silence behind closed doors. People prepared to stick their heads above the parapet get shredded to pieces and bullied into submission. Woe betide anyone who stands up to the thought police who are currently running amok everywhere I look.

It is the easiest thing in the world to demolish something, it is much harder to build. I see the current chaos not just because a man died in USA but because frustration with lockdown, fear, and general angst has created a time-bomb that will explode pretty soon if it hasn't already. The final straw for me was when my daughter, a first time Mum with an 8 month old, rang me today saying 'why bring her little boy into this world to be greeted by the sort of society that justifies the behaviour currently evident? She was in tears. How many more feel as she does?

So why shouldn't we expect reason, quiet discussion, compromise and respect for all. It comes to something when my child says she feels threatened by what is happening. Why is there constant criticism of anyone and everyone who is in a position to have to make a decision? I bet none of them expected to have to deal with all the nasty stuff that's going on now. The ministers look shattered, and BJ has had the stuffing knocked out of him with the virus. You only have to look at those guys to see the pressure they are under - but no - it's not enough. Those out now baying for blood will not stop until they string someone up or the country has descended into anarchy. I expect there are many keeping their heads down while the egotists, complainers, thugs and political rioters run amok in the streets. There is not one cause it seems, but anything and everything  they can think of to add to the fury, to make the shouts more shrill. I am ashamed that they are my countrymen.

Dunno Toots.

I reckon the problem with the media is that sections of it seem to have convinced themselves that their opinions matter. Most of the population will smile politely and turn to the sports pages while the real causalities will be the proprietors battling with declining circulations and shrinking revenues.

When your daughter rang you to ask you what was the point of bringing children into the world that was not a philosophical question as the response to the fact that your granddaughter had kept her up all night and she was knackered.

When I was involved in the protests of the 60s we had real policemen wading in with real truncheons and real boots and giving us real kickings in real police vans. The current demos are very milk and water by comparison.

Probably most of all, the whole country is in some sort of lockdown because of this Chinese flu. As I may have mentioned before, that sort of thing is alright for the womenfolk. They tend to have more medical problems than men and need to look after themselves. But we are currently seeing the deballification of large chunks of the male populations and it is not, to be frank, a pretty sight. So rather than taking plenty of aspirin, brandy, bedrest and enjoying the chance to skiv off work, they are happy to let the side down. That said, we are clearly entering a kinder, gentler age, which is all to the good, although I reckon that it will take a bit of getting use to.

[papasmurf]

Many thanks Pappy.

What for?

[Borchester]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqpSBnFI1jg

Many thanks Pappy.

[Javert]

When people feel threatened or unjustly treated, they will begin to split into those very rigid groups or identities in order to feel safe or validated. As a white male, I'm public enemy no1 now, and if I'm going to be held responsible for everything that was wrong with the world 200 years ago, never mind now, I'm going to embrace that with open arms? Sorry, no. And you'll find a lot more people starting to say "sorry, no" as this goes on. Utterly sick of it now. Feck race, feck gender, feck sexuality, feck the lot of them. If we can't live together sensibly, then maybe we're better off apart.

Who gets to decide which people, if any, have really been unfairly treated versus just feeling that they have been unfairly treated?

If you feel that as a white person you are being unfairly treated, are you then stating that black people who feel they are unfairly treated are wrong?  This is part of the whole issue - it's mainly the white people who get to decide who is really being unfairly treated and who is not.

[papasmurf]

I'm sure you would know. 😜

Never been there.

[Borg Refinery]

In Wales, the men are men and the sheep are scared.

That applies to Benbecula as well.

I'm sure you would know. 😜

[papasmurf]

In Wales, the men are men and the sheep are scared.

That applies to Benbecula as well.

[Borg Refinery]

Do you not think that sentiments like 'men need to be men' and 'don't broadcast your private life' are judgemental?

What should they be then? Pink fluffy unicorns with Elvis haircuts? Wait...I know the answer...its "if they want to be, yes"... 

That image of some creature barking at the moon suits you to a tee

In Wales, the men are men and the sheep are scared.

[T00ts]

Yes, black lives matter but it doesn't mean that white lives don't. Yes, women need equality but men still need to be men, not better but both complementary for a strong community and for the welfare of the next generation. What people do in their private lives is their own business but it does not need to be broadcast far and wide indiscriminately ad nauseum, and that goes for everyone regardless of what they believe is their sexuality. Above all we need some kindness, some love for all, less judgement of others

Do you not think that sentiments like 'men need to be men' and 'don't broadcast your private life' are judgemental?

If you think so. I didn't see it that way but then I don't claim to be perfect.

[DeppityDawg]

Do you not think that sentiments like 'men need to be men' and 'don't broadcast your private life' are judgemental?

What should they be then? Pink fluffy unicorns with Elvis haircuts? Wait...I know the answer...its "if they want to be, yes"... 

That image of some creature barking at the moon suits you to a tee

[papasmurf]

Just imagine what a society ruled by vegan, trans rights, climate zealots would be like. Pol Pot anyone?

We are heading that way anyway, however Pol Pot bumped off the intellectuals so he wasn't all bad.

[DeppityDawg]

Thank you DD for this and as far as the people v people argument goes I agree. Surely though division is not a way forward that we can support. We need peacemakers - traditionally a female role certainly in families as a rule. No this is not a sexist post! People are scared. Scared of the virus because no-one has been able to wave a magic wand and find a remedy. Scared that many jobs will be lost. Scared that they don't see a clear future either personally or for the country. Scared that for perhaps the first time they are being confronted with discomfort after a lifetime of relevant ease. We have a couple of generations who have not got the reserves to cope with difficulties.

We have been brewing an outburst over the last few months if not longer. Frustration in all its forms from the Brexit vote, the lack of leadership in Westminster over the last 4 years, the visible disruption in the framework of government (thank you Bercow), the false hope that many have been given regarding their education and financial prospects, the dismay now that you could die just saying hello to a friend, the lack of weekend nights of drunken stupor in order to avoid facing the reality of life. Put all these things together and many more, and we have a powder keg just waiting for a light. The light was the USA death. It was all that was needed to start a series of events which have so far resulted in hysteria. Mob hysteria is one of the easiest things to conjure up. Social media makes it so simple and here we are. The frustrations are overflowing and any target will do as long as it makes those in the midst of the madness feel in control of their lives.

Yes, black lives matter but it doesn't mean that white lives don't. Yes, women need equality but men still need to be men, not better but both complementary for a strong community and for the welfare of the next generation. What people do in their private lives is their own business but it does not need to be broadcast far and wide indiscriminately ad nauseum, and that goes for everyone regardless of what they believe is their sexuality. Above all we need some kindness, some love for all, less judgement of others and above all more basic principles of good social living. It can only be done in small careful steps and mistakes will be made just as they always have. Let's hope that sense will prevail soon.

In Seattle there has been a kind of "peoples republic" declared in a part of the city, and the Police have withdrawn. I think in future you'll start to see this more, particularly in areas where there are social, ethnic and religious divides apparent already. If you reject authority (whether you believe in its partiality or not), you are effectively rejecting society, at least in its current form, too. What kind of society will spring up in its place is debatable, but I don't for one minute believe it will be somewhere over the rainbow. Our government (such as it is) seems powerless to do much to stop it if it were to happen here, and I'm sure people like Saddiq Khan wouldn't disapprove of it - its coming. Society (or rather our governance of it) is so liberal now, nobody dare tell anyone that something is unacceptable.

Just imagine what a society ruled by vegan, trans rights, climate zealots would be like. Pol Pot anyone?

EDIT: And as if to prove the point, "poster C" decides to post the evidence of what a load of feckwits these people are   

[Nalaar]

Yes, black lives matter but it doesn't mean that white lives don't. Yes, women need equality but men still need to be men, not better but both complementary for a strong community and for the welfare of the next generation. What people do in their private lives is their own business but it does not need to be broadcast far and wide indiscriminately ad nauseum, and that goes for everyone regardless of what they believe is their sexuality. Above all we need some kindness, some love for all, less judgement of others

Do you not think that sentiments like 'men need to be men' and 'don't broadcast your private life' are judgemental?

[Borg Refinery]

. Above all we need some kindness, some love for all, less judgement of others and above all more basic principles of good social living. It can only be done in small careful steps and mistakes will be made just as they always have. Let's hope that sense will prevail soon.

Well, on that last part I agree at least.

[T00ts]

I look around me at the news and all I can see is chaos. Once again those prepared to shout loudest get all the attention. Those prepared to take to the streets regardless of health safety or any other considerations bully the rest of us into silence behind closed doors. People prepared to stick their heads above the parapet get shredded to pieces and bullied into submission. Woe betide anyone who stands up to the thought police who are currently running amok everywhere I look.

It is the easiest thing in the world to demolish something, it is much harder to build. I see the current chaos not just because a man died in USA but because frustration with lockdown, fear, and general angst has created a time-bomb that will explode pretty soon if it hasn't already. The final straw for me was when my daughter, a first time Mum with an 8 month old, rang me today saying 'why bring her little boy into this world to be greeted by the sort of society that justifies the behaviour currently evident? She was in tears. How many more feel as she does?

So why shouldn't we expect reason, quiet discussion, compromise and respect for all. It comes to something when my child says she feels threatened by what is happening. Why is there constant criticism of anyone and everyone who is in a position to have to make a decision? I bet none of them expected to have to deal with all the nasty stuff that's going on now. The ministers look shattered, and BJ has had the stuffing knocked out of him with the virus. You only have to look at those guys to see the pressure they are under - but no - it's not enough. Those out now baying for blood will not stop until they string someone up or the country has descended into anarchy. I expect there are many keeping their heads down while the egotists, complainers, thugs and political rioters run amok in the streets. There is not one cause it seems, but anything and everything  they can think of to add to the fury, to make the shouts more shrill. I am ashamed that they are my countrymen.

I think what you're seeing is the beginning of the end of the modern western nation state. The result of 50 plus years of ever more permissive and pandering liberal policies that has inflated and given grievance to every minority issue you can think of. Instead of bringing us together, they serve only to drive us apart. Someone wrote on the old forum a few weeks back in relation to the class discussion, that there are only two "classes" - the oppressors and the oppressed. The natural end point of the "good guys v bad guys" narrative that fairy stories and folk tales have been made of for centuries made real in the 21st century. If you allow that mentality to grow unchecked, you end up with a people fractured into competing groups for who is the most "oppressed" and others pigeonholed into "oppressor" type groups who are the enemy. You can see it everywhere now. Black against white, women v men, young v old, gay v straight, able bodied v disabled, and virtually any other distinction you can think of. All the institutions of state, as well as those of society, like the traditional family and marriage, have been under sustained attack for so long, its inevitable they are dying. If you continue to drive people apart like this, then separatism is the only logical result

In the end its a zero sum game, because when people feel threatened or unjustly treated, they will begin to split into those very rigid groups or identities in order to feel safe or validated. As a white male, I'm public enemy no1 now, and if I'm going to be held responsible for everything that was wrong with the world 200 years ago, never mind now, I'm going to embrace that with open arms? Sorry, no. And you'll find a lot more people starting to say "sorry, no" as this goes on. Utterly sick of it now. Feck race, feck gender, feck sexuality, feck the lot of them. If we can't live together sensibly, then maybe we're better off apart.

Thank you DD for this and as far as the people v people argument goes I agree. Surely though division is not a way forward that we can support. We need peacemakers - traditionally a female role certainly in families as a rule. No this is not a sexist post! People are scared. Scared of the virus because no-one has been able to wave a magic wand and find a remedy. Scared that many jobs will be lost. Scared that they don't see a clear future either personally or for the country. Scared that for perhaps the first time they are being confronted with discomfort after a lifetime of relevant ease. We have a couple of generations who have not got the reserves to cope with difficulties.

We have been brewing an outburst over the last few months if not longer. Frustration in all its forms from the Brexit vote, the lack of leadership in Westminster over the last 4 years, the visible disruption in the framework of government (thank you Bercow), the false hope that many have been given regarding their education and financial prospects, the dismay now that you could die just saying hello to a friend, the lack of weekend nights of drunken stupor in order to avoid facing the reality of life. Put all these things together and many more, and we have a powder keg just waiting for a light. The light was the USA death. It was all that was needed to start a series of events which have so far resulted in hysteria. Mob hysteria is one of the easiest things to conjure up. Social media makes it so simple and here we are. The frustrations are overflowing and any target will do as long as it makes those in the midst of the madness feel in control of their lives.

Yes, black lives matter but it doesn't mean that white lives don't. Yes, women need equality but men still need to be men, not better but both complementary for a strong community and for the welfare of the next generation. What people do in their private lives is their own business but it does not need to be broadcast far and wide indiscriminately ad nauseum, and that goes for everyone regardless of what they believe is their sexuality. Above all we need some kindness, some love for all, less judgement of others and above all more basic principles of good social living. It can only be done in small careful steps and mistakes will be made just as they always have. Let's hope that sense will prevail soon.