Has the world deluded and conned itself with a plandemic?

[papasmurf]

And how many ITU beds have been put out of service in order to accommodate Covid regulations and social distancing?

Scott I give up I really do. I suspect you are deliberately not informing yourself. Every NHS hospital supplies such information in virtually real time.

[Scott777]

So what would you call it? How many cases will you accept from the official numbers given? What expertise or right do you merit that puts you in a position of judgement? Lastly why should anyone believe your theories?

What theory are you referring to?  I'm just asking for evidence.  A case is, as Barry has pointed out, just a positive PCR test.  They are not reliable, so therefore cases are not reliable.  I don't need any right to ask for evidence.  I have made no judgement.  The judgement is being made by anyone who claims there is an epidemic level of Covid in the UK.

[Scott777]

They don't overwhelm ITU beds as is currently the case.

And how many ITU beds have been put out of service in order to accommodate Covid regulations and social distancing?

[T00ts]

You raise some interesting points which are separate to the question of evidence, such as existence of disease, other countries, and motive, but I would like to stick to the main point, which is evidence of a currently widespread infectious disease, called Covid-19, in the UK.  My question is regarding the UK, so to be precise, is the UK currently with epidemic levels within a global pandemic?  Ten cases of Covid in the UK would not be enough.  So how many are there, and how do we know?

So what would you call it? How many cases will you accept from the official numbers given? What expertise or right do you merit that puts you in a position of judgement? Lastly why should anyone believe your theories?

[Scott777]

This second wave could be a false positive PCR second wave, similar to the one there was with Swine flu a few years ago.

WHO admit PCR tests unreliable:
https://www.who.int/news/item/14-12-2020-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users

It's all about the number of cycles used to amplify the RNA during the test.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/12/18/who-finally-admits-pcr-tests-create-false-positives/
https://lockdownsceptics.org/pcr-based-covid-testing-has-failed-us/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/ferguswalsh/2009/10/second_wave_of_virus_is_a_slow_burn.html

People will say, what about all the deaths?
The hospitals are always full at this time of the year with patients with chest problems. IF the PCR tests are being done with a very high cycle rate, the false positive rate will increase.

On the contrary, evidence from the ONS suggests deaths from all causes were up significantly in the last few weeks of 2020.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/latest

Very much on the ball, Barry.  I probably mentioned the unreliable PCR tests when I was last on the forum, because this has been clear for a long time.  Kary Mullis said it should not be used for testing infectious disease, before the 'pandemic'.

The ONS stats are worth some investigation.  I would just point out that deaths do incease yearly, on average, because the population increases, and suicides and cancer was very high during the '1st wave', but I will have to look at the stats.   

[Scott777]

Do you not feel that Covid is widespread enough globally to claim pandemic status? Of course there are going to be those worldwide who will make a fortune on others' misfortune. That is always the way. In this case there has been a worldwide race to cash in on a vaccine. We could wish for those coining it in to show an altruistic vein but it's a vain hope. It matters only that a cure/preventative is found.

To take it a stage further and suggest that perhaps the virus has been allowed to spread in order to make even more money, or that it is a make believe disease, is certainly something that I find beyond the realms of sanity but then I am also critical of most conspiracy theories.

You raise some interesting points which are separate to the question of evidence, such as existence of disease, other countries, and motive, but I would like to stick to the main point, which is evidence of a currently widespread infectious disease, called Covid-19, in the UK.  My question is regarding the UK, so to be precise, is the UK currently with epidemic levels within a global pandemic?  Ten cases of Covid in the UK would not be enough.  So how many are there, and how do we know?

[papasmurf]

The hospitals are always full at this time of the year with patients with chest problems.

They don't overwhelm ITU beds as is currently the case.

[Barry]

This second wave could be a false positive PCR second wave, similar to the one there was with Swine flu a few years ago.

WHO admit PCR tests unreliable:
https://www.who.int/news/item/14-12-2020-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users

It's all about the number of cycles used to amplify the RNA during the test.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/12/18/who-finally-admits-pcr-tests-create-false-positives/

A false positive pseudo-epidemic is a well described phenomenon in the medical literature which results in an exponential rise in diagnosed cases and deaths but no excess deaths. PCR testing is renowned for it and the "second wave" of Swine Flu in 2009 was entirely a false positive pseudo-epidemic only stopped by stopping the testing.

https://lockdownsceptics.org/pcr-based-covid-testing-has-failed-us/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/ferguswalsh/2009/10/second_wave_of_virus_is_a_slow_burn.html

People will say, what about all the deaths?
The hospitals are always full at this time of the year with patients with chest problems. IF the PCR tests are being done with a very high cycle rate, the false positive rate will increase.

On the contrary, evidence from the ONS suggests deaths from all causes were up significantly in the last few weeks of 2020.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/latest

[T00ts]

I can always count on you for good info.     I almost agree with your definition, but surely the disease needs to be widespread in each country that declares to be part of that pandemic.  Surely 1 case in each country is not sufficient.  So the question is, how much disease is there in the UK, and does that constitute an epidemic?

My 2nd question is how do you know it was Covid that you had, in December?

Do you not feel that Covid is widespread enough globally to claim pandemic status? Of course there are going to be those worldwide who will make a fortune on others' misfortune. That is always the way. In this case there has been a worldwide race to cash in on a vaccine. We could wish for those coining it in to show an altruistic vein but it's a vain hope. It matters only that a cure/preventative is found.

To take it a stage further and suggest that perhaps the virus has been allowed to spread in order to make even more money, or that it is a make believe disease, is certainly something that I find beyond the realms of sanity but then I am also critical of most conspiracy theories.

[Scott777]

Ok I will jump in here. Because it seems as good a place as any in what is clearly becoming a pantomime exchange.


A pandemic is pretty easily looked up. In short, if a disease identifiable as such is seen spreading across multiple countries then that is by definition a pandemic..


That the disease is real I can attest to I've had it twice


That it buggers your systems I can also attest to. The Nov 2919 episode reduced me to carrying a single patio slab fifty yards. The Dec 2020 episode reduced me to hyperventilating after climbing 13 steps to the first floor.


It is not killing as many now as it did a year ago in this area because the NHS have adapted what they do. When my mate was rushed in to A&E two weeks before Christmas they stuck him on a nebuliser with their patent mix of respiratory cocktail and he went home Christmas Eve. Like me he's still wasted climbing a flight of stairs.


But when he was admitted until he was released NOBODY got carted off to ICU. When Moira's co worker was admitted as year ago half a dozen ended up in ICU including her because they did not have the nebuliser cocktail they had now.


That my co worker in 1982 invented that very cocktail and published it in a journal hoping to attract the attention of those treating certain lung diseases I shall merely mentionin passing to point out maybe funding him post 1984 might have saved a few thousand lives now ...

I can always count on you for good info.     I almost agree with your definition, but surely the disease needs to be widespread in each country that declares to be part of that pandemic.  Surely 1 case in each country is not sufficient.  So the question is, how much disease is there in the UK, and does that constitute an epidemic?

My 2nd question is how do you know it was Covid that you had, in December?

[Scott777]

You must be useless at internet research then.

I suppose that's one possibility.  Or there is no such evidence.  Oh well, I guess you can't back up your claims.  Have a nice day.   

[johnofgwent]

I'm glad you believe that, then if it's so obvious and abundant, it should be so easy to provide it.

Ok I will jump in here. Because it seems as good a place as any in what is clearly becoming a pantomime exchange.


A pandemic is pretty easily looked up. In short, if a disease identifiable as such is seen spreading across multiple countries then that is by definition a pandemic..


That the disease is real I can attest to I've had it twice


That it buggers your systems I can also attest to. The Nov 2919 episode reduced me to carrying a single patio slab fifty yards. The Dec 2020 episode reduced me to hyperventilating after climbing 13 steps to the first floor.


It is not killing as many now as it did a year ago in this area because the NHS have adapted what they do. When my mate was rushed in to A&E two weeks before Christmas they stuck him on a nebuliser with their patent mix of respiratory cocktail and he went home Christmas Eve. Like me he's still wasted climbing a flight of stairs.


But when he was admitted until he was released NOBODY got carted off to ICU. When Moira's co worker was admitted as year ago half a dozen ended up in ICU including her because they did not have the nebuliser cocktail they had now.


That my co worker in 1982 invented that very cocktail and published it in a journal hoping to attract the attention of those treating certain lung diseases I shall merely mentionin passing to point out maybe funding him post 1984 might have saved a few thousand lives now ...

[papasmurf]

I have used it plenty, and oddly enough cannot find any such evidence. 

You must be useless at internet research then.

[Scott777]

You have internet access the same as the rest of us, use it.

I have used it plenty, and oddly enough cannot find any such evidence.  I am, however, enjoying the guessing game.  Is it because you were abducted by aliens and they implanted a microchip in your brain which told you all the facts?

[papasmurf]

Well then provide just a little bit of actual evidence out of this plentiful supply.

You have internet access the same as the rest of us, use it.