DWP contractor "assessors" are professionals?

[Baron von Lotsov]

That's partly my fault, sorry.  If I see anything about language that I disagree with, I normally just focus on that.  Get it back to DWP contractor assessors - I promise I'll keep out of it.

At least you'll know what a professional is then. I had a three year legal fight with a government department and it actually hinged on some word definitions, but instead of just the department calling something something, these were words on the statute book. I won the case, so it will teach the blighters to be more careful with words. I used the Oxford Dictionary .

[Paulus de B]

So no-one actually wants to debate the case which is not a one off or even rare.

That's partly my fault, sorry.  If I see anything about language that I disagree with, I normally just focus on that.  Get it back to DWP contractor assessors - I promise I'll keep out of it.

[Borchester]

So no-one actually wants to debate the case which is not a one off or even rare.

Not really Pappy. You will just say that it is all a Tory plot and well, that will be about it.

[Churchill]

It appears not, it is personal choice on all topics is it not

[papasmurf]

So no-one actually wants to debate the case which is not a one off or even rare.

[Baron von Lotsov]

My definition included 'qualified' and 'competent' separately because, as you say here, they may not mean the same thing.  'Professional' on the side of your electric toothbrush is probably meant to imply that it was designed, made and/or is used by professional people - it's marketing and so has very little useful meaning - it serves about the same purpose as the stripes in your toothpaste - but we're not going to define words by how Braun's marketing department uses them, are we?

That's a good analogy, the red white and blue stripes means its solid British quality blar blar.



Clearly they use the word professional because it is meaningless in claim to quality. The government are doing the same thing here. These health care professionals might start to use uniforms at some point to fool you further.



So you get to your lawyer and say, ah, i've been conned and the lawyer looks at it with a magnifying glass and sees no claim of any substance was made, but you thought it was. Then you walk out knowing you have been ripped and remind yourself to be more careful next time. It's one of those words that always makes me wary.

[Paulus de B]

I have a Braun toothbrush.



Each day I brush my teeth and read the word professional printed on the side of the brush and think to myself, out in Blighty there must be professional teeth cleaners. Using your definition they would be  "qualified, trained, competent". Ah hmm!!!



Besides these are merely proxies. You profess to know how to do medicine because you've got a government certificate of competence, i.e. a proxy that is professed to indicate you can get people better. Pay is another proxy used, especially where we refer to it in the context of sport, e.g. a professional golfer.  These days accreditation is a common one. "Oh you - I'm a professional bullshitter, and you will know I am because I'm accredited with the Royal British Bullshit Society, so there."



As you get older you learn what is going on here.

My definition included 'qualified' and 'competent' separately because, as you say here, they may not mean the same thing.  'Professional' on the side of your electric toothbrush is probably meant to imply that it was designed, made and/or is used by professional people - it's marketing and so has very little useful meaning - it serves about the same purpose as the stripes in your toothpaste - but we're not going to define words by how Braun's marketing department uses them, are we?

[Churchill]

I think you would be hard pressed to find any profession that does not have some unprofessional incompetent people in it, does one bad fully trained gas engineer , Doctor, Solicitor, or whatever mean all of their colleagues are? No

[Baron von Lotsov]

I have a Braun toothbrush.



Each day I brush my teeth and read the word professional printed on the side of the brush and think to myself, out in Blighty there must be professional teeth cleaners. Using your definition they would be  "qualified, trained, competent". Ah hmm!!!



Besides these are merely proxies. You profess to know how to do medicine because you've got a government certificate of competence, i.e. a proxy that is professed to indicate you can get people better. Pay is another proxy used, especially where we refer to it in the context of sport, e.g. a professional golfer.  These days accreditation is a common one. "Oh you - I'm a professional bullshitter, and you will know I am because I'm accredited with the Royal British Bullshit Society, so there."



As you get older you learn what is going on here.

[Paulus de B]

Professional meant "you profess to know what you talk about".  It doesn't mean that any longer.  Nowadays it means qualified, trained, competent, the opposite of amateur.  Etymology isn't definition.

So if you buy a professional tool in a shop, have you paid for all of this and if not then do you have a claim against them?



You see the tool professes to do the job.



Profess- definition: "claim that one has (a quality or feeling), especially when this is not the case." Oxford dictionary

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/profess">https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... sh/profess">https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/profess

Here I've got: to state something, sometimes in a way that is not sincere [my emphasis]



https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/professional">https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... ofessional">https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/professional

However, the definition of professional is what I said.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Professional meant "you profess to know what you talk about".  It doesn't mean that any longer.  Nowadays it means qualified, trained, competent, the opposite of amateur.  Etymology isn't definition.

So if you buy a professional tool in a shop, have you paid for all of this and if not then do you have a claim against them?



You see the tool professes to do the job.



Profess- definition: "claim that one has (a quality or feeling), especially when this is not the case." Oxford dictionary

[Paulus de B]

Professional meant "you profess to know what you talk about".  It doesn't mean that any longer.  Nowadays it means qualified, trained, competent, the opposite of amateur.  Etymology isn't definition.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Of course they are every bit professional. The word professional means you profess to know what you talk about. It comes from the church where you made a public oath before being admitted, such as I swear to be a good man and tell the truth and so on. Later on the definition widened to include all professions, not just the clergy.



One must get with this word definition thing to understand these types.

[papasmurf]

The DWP keeps insisting the contractors who carry out "assessments" for welfare benefits use "professionals" for the task.

Frankly that is like Comical Ali stating "there are no American tanks in Baghdad." with one going past behind him.

I am surprised the BBC has run this news item, in general the mainstream media does no run such news.

The case in the news item is just the latest in a very long line of similar incidents. Getting the police to do anything is a rarity.

More at link:-



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50187803?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability&link_location=live-reporting-story">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-501 ... ting-story">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50187803?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability&link_location=live-reporting-story



Capita benefits assessor 'laughed' at disabled woman

25 October 2019



A worker for the Department for Work and Pensions has been suspended after a disabled woman said a benefits assessor laughed at her and threatened her son.

Police also said they were investigating criminal damage at the Cardiff home of Cheryl Matthews.

Mrs Matthews said the assessor, employed by Capita, dismissed claims she had felt suicidal as "irrelevant".

Capita said a worker had been suspended, it had apologised to Mrs Matthews and offered her compensation.