Boris offers passports to HK citizens

[Nick]

The here and now , should be telling us to stop being so overly friendly ,and dependent on a state that we have little in common with.

And how many times have you been to China?

[cromwell]

Really,never have guessed but we're talking about the here and now.

Surely that's not so much rewriting history as ignoring it...?

No it isn't,this thread is about now HK and Beijing crackdown,laughably I was told that mentioning the ongoing suppression in Tibet,the Uighurs, lack of democracy and that posters support for Bashar al Assad and Vlad being made president for life all happening now is whataboutery whereas the opium wars way over a century ago is fine.
Did you bother looking back over thread,should someone start one about the evils of the opium wars you'd get no argument from me.

No its Whataboutism as Vladimar Putin, Bashar Al Assad, Tibet and Uighers have nothing to do with Hong Kong, while the Opium War is everything to do with Hong Kong. It was fundamental to the "legal" arrangements that led to the creation of the Treaty Port. Seriously you are aware of this I hope?

Oh I see so it's all about HK,so your what about the Indians shouldn't have been mentioned then?

Galwan was nothing but a passing illustration of a relevant point, it was not critical to any central point I have made, nor an attempt to detract or distract or make invalid any other relevant point. Which is the precise opposite of your Whataboutism, Likewise you also mentioned my previously posted views on said irrelevant subjects in what appears very much like an attempt to invalidate any comments I may make because you personally do not agree to them.
How very modern, liberal and woke.

How very much cobblers,so I disagree....so what it's a discussion forum.
If it was only a passing  illustration of (on your logic re my post) an irrelevant point you didn't need to make it did you? modern,liberal,woke? more cobblers.....instead of moaning because you're challenged think stand,heat and kitchen.

[Sampanviking]

Really,never have guessed but we're talking about the here and now.

Surely that's not so much rewriting history as ignoring it...?

No it isn't,this thread is about now HK and Beijing crackdown,laughably I was told that mentioning the ongoing suppression in Tibet,the Uighurs, lack of democracy and that posters support for Bashar al Assad and Vlad being made president for life all happening now is whataboutery whereas the opium wars way over a century ago is fine.
Did you bother looking back over thread,should someone start one about the evils of the opium wars you'd get no argument from me.

No its Whataboutism as Vladimar Putin, Bashar Al Assad, Tibet and Uighers have nothing to do with Hong Kong, while the Opium War is everything to do with Hong Kong. It was fundamental to the "legal" arrangements that led to the creation of the Treaty Port. Seriously you are aware of this I hope?

Oh I see so it's all about HK,so your what about the Indians shouldn't have been mentioned then?

Galwan was nothing but a passing illustration of a relevant point, it was not critical to any central point I have made, nor an attempt to detract or distract or make invalid any other relevant point. Which is the precise opposite of your Whataboutism, Likewise you also mentioned my previously posted views on said irrelevant subjects in what appears very much like an attempt to invalidate any comments I may make because you personally do not agree to them.
How very modern, liberal and woke. 

[cromwell]

Really,never have guessed but we're talking about the here and now.

Surely that's not so much rewriting history as ignoring it...?

No it isn't,this thread is about now HK and Beijing crackdown,laughably I was told that mentioning the ongoing suppression in Tibet,the Uighurs, lack of democracy and that posters support for Bashar al Assad and Vlad being made president for life all happening now is whataboutery whereas the opium wars way over a century ago is fine.
Did you bother looking back over thread,should someone start one about the evils of the opium wars you'd get no argument from me.

No its Whataboutism as Vladimar Putin, Bashar Al Assad, Tibet and Uighers have nothing to do with Hong Kong, while the Opium War is everything to do with Hong Kong. It was fundamental to the "legal" arrangements that led to the creation of the Treaty Port. Seriously you are aware of this I hope?

Oh I see so it's all about HK,so your what about the Indians shouldn't have been mentioned then?

[Good old]

I was referring to the. ton, s of cheap crap imported from those shores.

The problem is practically everything we buy electronic/electrical/automotive has Chinese components in it. If you are a sad person like me who likes to buy spare parts from the origin that usually means China, because they are much cheaper than being ripped off in Britain.
It often means using a magnifying glass to get the factory part number off of the "dead" component, or cross referencing because many parts are used in a wide range of applications.

I know Smurf, it's a bind. But I firmly  believe we have to break what could become a total reliance on these people before it really will be to late. We should be able to have a serious disagreement with them,without worrying about where  your spare parts are going to come from.  We know it could be much worse than that. It  could be more to do with what Pat worries about. But that is where this is going now. We are giving them a reason to F@@@ us  off time and time again knowing we get hurt if we so much as open our mouths on any issue they going to get ,rat arsed, about. We are somewhat in that situation now .

[Sampanviking]

Really,never have guessed but we're talking about the here and now.

Surely that's not so much rewriting history as ignoring it...?

No it isn't,this thread is about now HK and Beijing crackdown,laughably I was told that mentioning the ongoing suppression in Tibet,the Uighurs, lack of democracy and that posters support for Bashar al Assad and Vlad being made president for life all happening now is whataboutery whereas the opium wars way over a century ago is fine.
Did you bother looking back over thread,should someone start one about the evils of the opium wars you'd get no argument from me.

No its Whataboutism as Vladimar Putin, Bashar Al Assad, Tibet and Uighers have nothing to do with Hong Kong, while the Opium War is everything to do with Hong Kong. It was fundamental to the "legal" arrangements that led to the creation of the Treaty Port. Seriously you are aware of this I hope?

[patman post]

It's not everyone taking 5G from China, though, and we shouldn't either. So they make some decent stuff who doesn't.?

Supposedly Ericsson and Nokia can also provide 5G technology. But Huawei has the lead in the total system supply and builds on its 4G installed base. The two others will need to crank up their output — and maybe licence other equipment manufacturers (who, though?) to satisfy worldwide demand...

[papasmurf]

I was referring to the. ton, s of cheap crap imported from those shores.

The problem is practically everything we buy electronic/electrical/automotive has Chinese components in it. If you are a sad person like me who likes to buy spare parts from the origin that usually means China, because they are much cheaper than being ripped off in Britain.
It often means using a magnifying glass to get the factory part number off of the "dead" component, or cross referencing because many parts are used in a wide range of applications.

[Good old]

Start with 5G, working your way into nuclear power. If that's impossible then they can not be argued with. I don't believe that . All the cheap gear could be replicated else where.

It's not so much "cheap" as advanced and available in quantity. The fact that currently the whole range of advanced 5G subsystems are not available from anywhere outside China — even the Israel, Japan or the US — illustrates that fact.
With nuclear power, it's the huge investment rather than technology. France and Japan are among the most advanced and experienced in the development and installation of nuclear power stations. But their champions seem unable to initially carry the construction costs under the UK's financing proposals — though China might have been able/willing, before Covid struck...

Well that's how it has been sold. It's not everyone taking 5G from China, though, and we shouldn't either. So they make some decent stuff who doesn't.? When I mentioned cheap I was referring to the. ton, s of cheap crap imported from those shores. The first problem we have with the supply of power is not knowing for many years how we should tackle the basic problem. Simply not coming to terms with which method to use and how to pay and who to pay for it. As far as finance is concerned ,there is money elsewhere ,it's purely a matter of not trying so hard to get the cheapest deal. A deal of that type could be struck elsewhere . So all in all China, has as much influence here as we encourage.  Unless of course it can be taken as a given that China, has us in their pocket, already. If we don't change our relationship with them, that will be the case. It isn't yet and we must not allow it to be so. The events In Hong Kong,only serve to remind us why we should not.

[patman post]

Start with 5G, working your way into nuclear power. If that's impossible then they can not be argued with. I don't believe that . All the cheap gear could be replicated else where.

It's not so much "cheap" as advanced and available in quantity. The fact that currently the whole range of advanced 5G subsystems are not available from anywhere outside China — even the Israel, Japan or the US — illustrates that fact.
With nuclear power, it's the huge investment rather than technology. France and Japan are among the most advanced and experienced in the development and installation of nuclear power stations. But their champions seem unable to initially carry the construction costs under the UK's financing proposals — though China might have been able/willing, before Covid struck...

[cromwell]

Really,never have guessed but we're talking about the here and now.

Surely that's not so much rewriting history as ignoring it...?

No it isn't,this thread is about now HK and Beijing crackdown,laughably I was told that mentioning the ongoing suppression in Tibet,the Uighurs, lack of democracy and that posters support for Bashar al Assad and Vlad being made president for life all happening now is whataboutery whereas the opium wars way over a century ago is fine.
Did you bother looking back over thread,should someone start one about the evils of the opium wars you'd get no argument from me.

[patman post]

Really,never have guessed but we're talking about the here and now.

Surely that's not so much rewriting history as ignoring it...?

[Good old]

Poke their technology back where it comes from. No whatabouts about it.

That would be impossible.

In total maybe , but certainly possible in many vital areas. Start with 5G, working your way into nuclear power. If that's impossible then they can not be argued with. I don't believe that . All the cheap gear could be replicated else where.

[papasmurf]

Poke their technology back where it comes from. No whatabouts about it.

That would be impossible.

[Good old]

Whataboutery?..ahh yes the easy route to try to shut down so when you list the wrongdoing of some protesters that's not what about is it or dragging up the opium trade from the past either?
That you can't answer that put to you duly noted.

It is not possible to ignore the Opium wars. As with many things Britain has a shabby past.

Really,never have guessed but we're talking about the here and now.

The here and now , should be telling us to stop being so overly friendly ,and dependent on a state that we have little in common with. The Chinese state had no real need to have pursued the changes they want in Hong Kong. There would have been no riots without the Chinese, instance on totally dominating the personal freedoms of a peaceful people.
People that had no interest in hurting the Chinese state.
We can not deny past actions. But it's now that matters ,and we should have nothing to do with a state  that  insists on dominating  the thoughts and actions of its own people to the degree China, so readily does. Poke their technology back where it comes from. No whatabouts about it.