The Israelis are 3d-Printing MEAT

[johnofgwent]

I'll stay vegetarian until they can print 4D meat, then I might give it a try!

You thinking of going back in time to because meat tasted like it should then ??

[HDQQ]

I'll stay vegetarian until they can print 4D meat, then I might give it a try!

[johnofgwent]

But is it Kosher? "shrugs"

Or Halal. (Serious questions.)

Well, that's the entertaining point.

Many foods are "haram" but I am unsure whether they are also not kosher.  I'm thinking seafood.

Given it was the israelis who are investing in the technology I did in fact wonder was it kosher, but then i realised that just as the yanks and their pals think monsanto genetically engineered stuff is just what the third world need, these fine upstanding descendants of Moses are only doing it for the goyim arenlt they....

which of course means someone is going to need to ask a mullah what they think. This could be .. interesting. Popcorn anyone ...

[Barry]

But is it Kosher? "shrugs"

Or Halal. (Serious questions.)

If it's made by the Israelis, surely Haram.

[Nalaar]

I consider both these challenges void on the grounds there is about two and a half pounds of carved cow called a silverside roasting joint sitting in my fridge right now which is very much NOT processed beyond being the product of a butcher's knife and according to the docket on the wall of the said butcher was previously running round a west wales farm being pretty much exclusively grass fed. There is after all something about the welsh black, the welsh bred it for survival on welsh lowland hills to eat and survive from whatever it found on said pasture...

If the 3D printers were able to create a "meat" that you found indistinguishable from the meat in your fridge in texture/taste/smell would you consider that a superior product?

But to return to the exact point, I reject outright your criticism that my finding the taste of many synthetic meats so vile as to cause me to puke them up does not have a wide bearing on my not preferring such synthetic product to the real thing.

Then this is no more than a technical issue for you, for them to overcome.

Turning then to your last point, sorry, but i can prove biochemically that there is no way you can possibly receive the degree of sensual stimulation from a piece of engineered plant that I get from the roasting of the real thing.  because the chemicals released into the air from the roasting process in the real meat, which give rise to the chemical stimulation of the pleasure centres in the brain, are carcinogenic and addition of those precursors to any food product manufactured artificially are utterly forbidden even in the chlorine washing U S of A.  Yes you can stimulate the same pleasure centres with certain other compounds, but the artificially produced chemicals they are allowed to use are not chiral, being the product of a chemical process not a biological one, so they are only 50% efficient, and they are significantly less able to cause intense stimulation. You can get a poor shadow of the intensity I feel as I see a steak grilling but not remotely achieve the depth of intensity of reaction. Sorry.

Unless you're suggesting there is some sort of non-physically determined qualia to meat that printed meats can not produce I consider my point proved.

[johnofgwent]

I worry that this ultimate 'processed food' would lack something or have something added.

In the same way that meats are processed and 'lack something or have something added'?

I worry it is unnatural.

Any less natural than the rest of the world you live in?

I worry it might taste quite disgusting compared to the real thing.

Of course, all tastes are personal, but I don't think that has much of a wider bearing.

As you are a vegan, you cannot possibly understand the sheer sensual experience that a joint of meat roasting in your kitchen for the sunday lunch brings. Right now there is a silver side joint of beef in the car, I just bought it from a butcher who had pretty much the whole cow cut up.in his glass fronted counter.

This seems a purely technical, whatever experience you are having is possible with non-animal meats.

I could take your fragments point by point and answer them point by point but I find that tends to totally fragment the debate and ruin the flow. So I will respond in unbroken paragraphs.

Your first point then is that the existence of "processed" meats are a reason to invalidate my concerns that this 3-D printer will produce a product that had had things added to or subtracted from what would be the "natural" product. I would accept that if we were talking about 3-D printed spam, corned beef, cooked sliced ham, ham and egg slices, or any other of the literally dozens of processed meats available in any supermarket worth the name including those various European breakfast sliced meat products. But I came away from reading the original article with the distinct feeling that this 3-D printer was aiming to produce something on a par with a cut of meat from the animal. In much the same way as the original "textured vegetable protein" of the 70's and 80's (ish)  sought to simulate a steak.  You go on to question the validity of my worry that  the product was "unnatural" on the grounds it is no less unnatural than the rest of my world.

I consider both these challenges void on the grounds there is about two and a half pounds of carved cow called a silverside roasting joint sitting in my fridge right now which is very much NOT processed beyond being the product of a butcher's knife and according to the docket on the wall of the said butcher was previously running round a west wales farm being pretty much exclusively grass fed. There is after all something about the welsh black, the welsh bred it for survival on welsh lowland hills to eat and survive from whatever it found on said pasture...

You then move on to challenge my concern that it might taste quite disgusting compared to the real thing. I made that point because I have found certain soya substitutes for meat to be entirely revolting. I remind you that your original question to papasmurf was "For what reason would you not prefer it" ("it" being the 3D-printed, meat free chemically assembled protein substitute for a chunk of cow). Now while I accept that taste is indeed subjective. But there are objectives. Unless you can roll your tongue at the sides for example, you cannot and will never find Brussels Sprouts as utterly disgustingly gut wrenchingly vile as I do, for unless you can roll your tongue at the sides you lack the gene that allows your taste buds to detect phenyl thio carb amide (PTC) a puke-generatingly bitter tasting compound abundant in the damn vegetables of that  whole order never mind species.

But to return to the exact point, I reject outright your criticism that my finding the taste of many synthetic meats so vile as to cause me to puke them up does not have a wide bearing on my not preferring such synthetic product to the real thing.

Turning then to your last point, sorry, but i can prove biochemically that there is no way you can possibly receive the degree of sensual stimulation from a piece of engineered plant that I get from the roasting of the real thing.  because the chemicals released into the air from the roasting process in the real meat, which give rise to the chemical stimulation of the pleasure centres in the brain, are carcinogenic and addition of those precursors to any food product manufactured artificially are utterly forbidden even in the chlorine washing U S of A.  Yes you can stimulate the same pleasure centres with certain other compounds, but the artificially produced chemicals they are allowed to use are not chiral, being the product of a chemical process not a biological one, so they are only 50% efficient, and they are significantly less able to cause intense stimulation. You can get a poor shadow of the intensity I feel as I see a steak grilling but not remotely achieve the depth of intensity of reaction. Sorry.

[papasmurf]

But is it Kosher? "shrugs"

Or Halal. (Serious questions.)

[Sampanviking]

https://www.france24.com/en/20200701-3d-printed-fake-meat-the-healthier-greener-future-of-food

Sometimes, it's good fun poking about on other countries news web sites.

3-D printing proteins to make a steak. well, it's interesting.  I wonder how far towards the molecular this technology has actually got ...

But is it Kosher? "shrugs"

[papasmurf]

I cannot myself see one of these mechanically created items replacing that whole experience. And I greatly fear the end result will have neither the flavour or texture of the real thing.

I can't see it either.
I doubt the subtle differences in taste between the terroirs animals are raised on plus the differences from breed to breed,  and the feed they eat could be replicated artificially. I doubt pork crackling could be artificially produced even close to the real thing.

[Nalaar]

I worry that this ultimate 'processed food' would lack something or have something added.

In the same way that meats are processed and 'lack something or have something added'?

I worry it is unnatural.

Any less natural than the rest of the world you live in?

I worry it might taste quite disgusting compared to the real thing.

Of course, all tastes are personal, but I don't think that has much of a wider bearing.

As you are a vegan, you cannot possibly understand the sheer sensual experience that a joint of meat roasting in your kitchen for the sunday lunch brings. Right now there is a silver side joint of beef in the car, I just bought it from a butcher who had pretty much the whole cow cut up.in his glass fronted counter.

This seems a purely technical, whatever experience you are having is possible with non-animal meats.

[johnofgwent]

I am vegan. For what reason would you not prefer it

I'll bite.

In essence, I have tried many meat substitutes over the years, out of sheer curiosity. I happen to like certain vegetarian meals for the same reason I like steak, I like how they taste.

I worry that this ultimate 'processed food' would lack something or have something added. I worry it is unnatural. I worry it might taste quite disgusting compared to the real thing.

As you are a vegan, you cannot possibly understand the sheer sensual experience that a joint of meat roasting in your kitchen for the sunday lunch brings. Right now there is a silver side joint of beef in the car, I just bought it from a butcher who had pretty much the whole cow cut up.in his glass fronted counter.

Like PS I was brought up to do a full sunday lunch before I was out of my teens.

I shall commandeer the kitchen, prepare it, roast it, sortbthe roast potatoes and accompanying veg. I will probably leave the yorkshire pud to my daughter, she enjoys making it.

I cannot myself see one of these mechanically created items replacing that whole experience. And I greatly fear the end result will have neither the flavour or texture of the real thing.

That said, I am prepared to be surprised..I merely doubt i will be

[Streetwalker]

Im beginning  to think that the point of Star Trek is to prepare us for the future .  The swishing doors started it , voice activated computers and mobile communicators were all featured before the event so to speak .

Food replicators ?  Why not 

[papasmurf]

I am vegan. For what reason would you not prefer it?

If you are a vegan it is pointless debating with you.

[Nalaar]

I don't see any factor that would be strong enough to stop printed meat eco ingredients the preferred option.

Are you a vegetarian or a vegan? (I am puzzled as to why you would think people would prefer printed meat to the real thing.)
It would never be my wife and I's preferred option.

I am vegan. For what reason would you not prefer it?

[papasmurf]

I don't see any factor that would be strong enough to stop printed meat eco ingredients the preferred option.

Are you a vegetarian or a vegan? (I am puzzled as to why you would think people would prefer printed meat to the real thing.)
It would never be my wife and I's preferred option.