Welsh Labour Do It Again: teacher recruitment target missed five years running

[Borchester]

Newport. Class sizes here are rather more than that to put it bluntly.

I dont doubt it john , but newport is a tiny tiny part of wales.

....over in your beloved England , under the westminster parliament rule , class sizes are even bigger.

Told you before john , devolution isnt your problem , its having one of the two cheeks of the same british lab/tory arse running your country.

Which is good for your children's education Tommy, but not so promising for their job prospects.

Teaching is ok, but not the sort of thing you go into if there is anything better on offer. In southern England we may be thicker than the rest of the country because of the teacher shortage, but we tend to be more prosperous as well.

Ulster is, I think, the only place in the UK that does not have a shortage of maths teachers. In London the criteria is are you alive and can you start tomorrow and from my own experience and that of teacher friends, if the latter condition is met then most London schools will ignore the former. 

[Thomas]

Newport. Class sizes here are rather more than that to put it bluntly.

I dont doubt it john , but newport is a tiny tiny part of wales.

....over in your beloved England , under the westminster parliament rule , class sizes are even bigger.

Told you before john , devolution isnt your problem , its having one of the two cheeks of the same british lab/tory arse running your country.

[johnofgwent]

Compared to where john?

Newport. Class sizes here are rather more than that to put it bluntly.

[Thomas]

Wow. Those are quite small compared to here.

Compared to where john?

Nalaars figures sound about similar to wales and slightly above scotland.

The average class size at primary level in wales for 2019 was 25 , in england 27 , and in scotland 23...

According to the data the average class size in Wales is now 25.6 pupils compared with 25.1 five years ago – a 2% rise.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/schools-breaking-welsh-government-law-15177047

The average class size for pupils in primary schools in Scotland was 23.5, unchanged since 2016.

https://www.wired-gov.net/wg/news.nsf/articles/Schools+Statistics+Published+10122019130500?open

The average primary school class size in England was 27.1 pupils in 2019

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/majority-constituencies-england-increase-class-sizes-362688

[johnofgwent]

that's interesting, that you have a glut of applicants / lack of openings I mean.  what is a typical class size ?

On a town/City level (idk about more rural) it's about 25 pupils in a class.

From my understand from friends (almost all of which have relocated to England to teach) it's all but impossible to get a primary school teaching position, and very difficult at secondary level.

Wow. Those are quite small compared to here.

[Nalaar]

that's interesting, that you have a glut of applicants / lack of openings I mean.  what is a typical class size ?

On a town/City level (idk about more rural) it's about 25 pupils in a class.

From my understand from friends (almost all of which have relocated to England to teach) it's all but impossible to get a primary school teaching position, and very difficult at secondary level.

[johnofgwent]

Okay so 'more money/benefits for teachers' and streamlining administration.

Regarding the students - As far as I'm aware we have the opposite problem in Northern Ireland. Too many prospective teachers for too few jobs.

I can't imagine the students here are much different the students in Wales.

that's interesting, that you have a glut of applicants / lack of openings I mean.  what is a typical class size ?

[cromwell]

A little bit off topic but someone asked the question what would attract people to teaching,anyone rememember the old yts? I know it was some time ago but without being too harsh (IMO) I tried to impart the realities of life in industry but was told ooh you can't do that you'll frighten them off.
At that point I told them to sod off.

[Nalaar]

Okay so 'more money/benefits for teachers' and streamlining administration.

Regarding the students - As far as I'm aware we have the opposite problem in Northern Ireland. Too many prospective teachers for too few jobs. I can't imagine the students here are much different the students in Wales.

[johnofgwent]

What do you think would attract more people to want to teach in Wales?

A most interesting question.

I think you have to split that down into two separate questions the first being "What do you think would attract more people to want to teach" and then you can focus on "in wales" after.

I have had it easy.

My experience of "teaching" is limited to a university environment holding practical sessions, seminars, lectures, revision sessions and the odd "masterclass" for groups of students who (a) really wanted to learn or (b) really, REALLY wanted to understand something they could not get their heads round and knew they were in big shit if they did not.

The only problems I faced in that environment were women who thought they were gods gift to men (they were, but when they met what I was taking home to bed each night they gave up. ahem), idiots who thought they could play the system and the real issue - which I was thank god able to find a way through - was a sort of impenetrable wall, built by the undergraduates themselves in their own minds, a wall built from hfear of failure, feelings of frustration, hopelessness, lack of worth and the like all built on a foundation of a tiny, tiny point where suddenly they went from understanding what was being taught to them to NOT understanding. It's a crazy thing, but it is real and it is frightening and it quickly escalates in a stressed environment. In my secondary school years I watched three of my own teachers recognise this in classmates and nip it in the bud and I guess I worked out how they did that, because I can do it too. Which made my seminars pretty popular for those who were at the end of their tether. And again I felt it a good idea to have a fairly provovcative picture of the still pretty new wife on the desk....

In stark contrast I had none of the problems the teachers who taught me in my ROSLA year had. A cohort of bored, uninterested, academically limited  kids who knew they were only there because the law forced them to be there, who knew their elder siblings in this state had at their age been released into the world to get jobs and make money, and were therefore sullen and uncooperative. And I certainly never faced violence from the students I taught.  Oh yes "students" (in the loosest sense possible, unpaid unwashed followers of the socialist mantra who hung about the student union and bars waiting out the months to their inevitable dropping out before the exams culled them consuming beer and hoping one of the endless demos they arranged would turn into a riot) did indeed try to kill me with bombs, and expressed desire to kill me with butchery, but they were not in my class.

In contrast my daughter gave up her job as a junior school classroom assistant after she was stabbed by a seven year old who plunged a jeweller's screwdriver into her thigh in the playground while screaming and i quote "i'm gonna fucking stab you, bitch" Unquote. And the school head's main concern was that when they had to call me to take her to A&E as no ambulance was available, that I might meet the assailant's father - who was also on the way to the school, to receive a lecture but no other sanction - and that I might put him in A&e to see what it feels like.

The assailant was never properly disciplined. He's prpbably dealing drugs from a council flat now, or sitting in an open prison learning how to make better stabbing tools.

So I think before you can hope to get decent, educated graduates to consider going into that battlefield, you need to do something about disarming its combatants. Seriously.

And then there is the issue of respect and worth in the community. In my school days my teachers may not have had particularly flash cars and indeed theirs were generally five or more years old compared to the one year old at most, fleet company model dad was given as an IBM hardware engineer, because he had to be places to an SLA and had to drive the best part of 100,000 miles a year.... but they had similar houses, similar mortgages, went on similar holidays, and to be fair those where both parents taught had BIGGER houses and went on swisher holidays.... is this the case now ? I rather think not.

I think the various adverts the government departments responsible for recruiting teachers are painting the right picture and making the right noises, but I do not think the benefits are anything like as depicted, certainly not in wales where the various incentives advertised on TV without it being made clear they apply to england only do not apply, and i do not think society as a whole holds teachers in any real esteem.

Moving on to the "in wales" part then, I touched on one point already. The adverts that try to persuade people to consider teaching as a career define all sorts of incentives that you quickly find do not exist. The answer is to abolish the welsh assembly and return to a single point of administration that properly advertises and properly is held to account for the job of recruiting for the job.

[Sampanviking]

Be fair John, our Dear Leader Mr Dreyfuss has a lot on his plate at the moment, principally making sure that none of us can get through the wire and make it to an English Pub and then sneak back in.
It was a difficult task before and now he has made it even harder from himself as citizens cynically abuse his compassionate ending of the five mile limit.

I suspect it was a high number of teachers that were the first to break out.

[Barry]

If teaching were the last profession available, I'd rather go hungry. So much political correctness to adhere to, so many risks of litigation, allegations of abuse, safeguarding issues. No thank you.

[papasmurf]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53252191


For the last five years, the twats in the bay have set a "target" to recruit approximately 1600 new teachers.

for 2014/15 they missed it by 100
for 2015/16 they missed it by 300
for 2016/17 they missed it by 400
for 2017/18 they missed it by 400 (again)
for 2018/19 they missed it by a whooping 600

education "safe in welsh labour hands" when they have, over the last five years, failed to attract a full year's worth (1600) of recruits ? I think not.

You think Wales is bad:-

https://epi.org.uk/publications-and-research/teacher-shortages-in-england-analysis-and-pay-options/

[Nalaar]

What do you think would attract more people to want to teach in Wales?

[johnofgwent]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53252191


For the last five years, the twats in the bay have set a "target" to recruit approximately 1600 new teachers.

for 2014/15 they missed it by 100
for 2015/16 they missed it by 300
for 2016/17 they missed it by 400
for 2017/18 they missed it by 400 (again)
for 2018/19 they missed it by a whooping 600

education "safe in welsh labour hands" when they have, over the last five years, failed to attract a full year's worth (1600) of recruits ? I think not.