Russian interference in 2019 UK election

[johnofgwent]

You need to qualify what is interference. Unless they rigged votes they can have done little.
If someone was going to vote stay and then changed their mind due to the sneaky Russians then what are you saying? I saw a couple of messages hidden in the header of emails but this wouldn't have changed my mind and I'm not convinced the average Joe goes looking in the header of emails anyway.

Interference also means publishing propaganda funded (at arm's length with some level of deliberate deniability) by potentially hostile foreign governments, with the motive of persuading some people to vote in the way that this foreign government wants.

This type of thing has always happened I'm sure, but it's been made a lot worse by the lack of regulation of social media channels.

If you are happy that Russia is trying to influence election results in the UK out of genuine altruism and love of the UK, and to strengthen the UK in the world, I guess it's not an issue.

You want to start a conversation about the friends of israel ? And how no person who is not a friend of israel can be allowed to be a prime minister of britain ? fine by me.

If we are to discuss manipulation in british politics we should perhaps have a few words about George Soros while we are at it.

[Thomas]

Alternatively it is all BS and a last ditch, desperate attempt by those in a the losing camp, to delegitimise the results of polls and elections with which they disagree.

Absolutely sampan.

Of course countries have interfered with each others business and democracy , or what passes as democracy , since time immemorial. The "british" are no strangers to this age old game  , and i grew up learning about constant american and to a lesser extenent russian interference in world democracies during the eighties.

...but since roughly 2015 or thereabouts , a new game has been played as you say , originating in america  , copied by westminster , to de legitimise democracy when it doesnt work in certain camps favour by screaming outside interference.

What has many scottish folk particularly in stitches is the fact this latest squeal regarding russian interference in uk democracy is the very fact back in 2014 , David cameron , his party and other brit nats in labour liberals etc were more than happy when they pleaded with the russians to interfere in scotlands democracy when it suited them....

Cameron's plea to Putin: help me stop Salmond

DAVID Cameron's Government wants the backing of Russian President Vladimir Putin in the battle against Scottish independence, the former USSR's leading news agency has reported.

http://archive.is/SBjJT

The First Minister said: "This report from Russia raises serious questions about the UK Government's underhand tactics. If this is accurate, then Westminster has been caught red-handed trying to stir up hostility to Scotland instead of representing Scotland's interests - it seems the No Campaign's self-named 'Project Fear' has now gone global."

The Tass report, by one of the agency's correspondents, hit the Russian language news wires on Hogmanay.
Its opening paragraph reads: "Great Britain is extremely interested in the support of Russia, as holder of the G8 presidency, in two vital areas in 2014: the Afghan pull-out and the Scottish independence referendum."

[Sampanviking]

You need to qualify what is interference. Unless they rigged votes they can have done little.
If someone was going to vote stay and then changed their mind due to the sneaky Russians then what are you saying? I saw a couple of messages hidden in the header of emails but this wouldn't have changed my mind and I'm not convinced the average Joe goes looking in the header of emails anyway.

Interference also means publishing propaganda funded (at arm's length with some level of deliberate deniability) by potentially hostile foreign governments, with the motive of persuading some people to vote in the way that this foreign government wants.

This type of thing has always happened I'm sure, but it's been made a lot worse by the lack of regulation of social media channels.

If you are happy that Russia is trying to influence election results in the UK out of genuine altruism and love of the UK, and to strengthen the UK in the world, I guess it's not an issue.

Alternatively it is all BS and a last ditch, desperate attempt by those in a the losing camp, to delegitimise the results of polls and elections with which they disagree.

[Javert]

You need to qualify what is interference. Unless they rigged votes they can have done little.
If someone was going to vote stay and then changed their mind due to the sneaky Russians then what are you saying? I saw a couple of messages hidden in the header of emails but this wouldn't have changed my mind and I'm not convinced the average Joe goes looking in the header of emails anyway.

Interference also means publishing propaganda funded (at arm's length with some level of deliberate deniability) by potentially hostile foreign governments, with the motive of persuading some people to vote in the way that this foreign government wants.

This type of thing has always happened I'm sure, but it's been made a lot worse by the lack of regulation of social media channels.

If you are happy that Russia is trying to influence election results in the UK out of genuine altruism and love of the UK, and to strengthen the UK in the world, I guess it's not an issue.

[papasmurf]

I do not think Putin is remotely 'worried' about many things.

Neither do I.

[johnofgwent]

Is Putin that worried about the UK's ability to retaliate or influence others?
It seems that along with disrupting the EU and Nato, he enjoys getting political factions in all political parties here to keep kicking lumps out of each other, and the general population to swallow and argue about whatever the latest concern is worrying them and the establishment.
Besides, the UK is a handy place to launder and distribute money. And attractive and handy enough for his dissidents to escape to — and they can be easily got at if they prove too troublesome.
Making sure Corbyn's prevarications (such as over Sergei and Yulia Skripal Salisbury attempted hit) get air time, and using useful idiots and paid and/or sympathetic performers to do the same on social media, is all par for the course of fomenting public unease and unrest...

I do not think Putin is remotely 'worried' about many things.

I think a man who worries about a foreign country's ability to act against them does not send people to murder those he considers dissident to his own view...

[papasmurf]

Probably settled somewhere safe with new identities. This is possibly misinformation to throw Putin off the scent:

https://nypost.com/2020/06/06/ex-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-and-daughter-start-over-in-new-zealand/

But I don't doubt something similar has happened...

It is probably just misinformation.

[patman post]

I was commenting on what have British spooks done with the Skripals.

Probably settled somewhere safe with new identities. This is possibly misinformation to throw Putin off the scent:

https://nypost.com/2020/06/06/ex-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-and-daughter-start-over-in-new-zealand/

But I don't doubt something similar has happened...

[Sampanviking]

Russian interference

You need to qualify what is interference. Unless they rigged votes they can have done little.
If someone was going to vote stay and then changed their mind due to the sneaky Russians then what are you saying? I saw a couple of messages hidden in the header of emails but this wouldn't have changed my mind and I'm not convinced the average Joe goes looking in the header of emails anyway.

I hoped that the rolleys emoticon would convey the sarcasm of my comment. Right on Cue however, the usual suspects of the establishment have been making insinuations about the results. We are being given "the absence of evidence not being evidence of absence" routine.
Personally and in the round with regard to the report, I ask "if the Establishment is totally being undermined at all levels by Pro Putin interests and money, how is it that our relations with Russia is toxic and that we have stringent sanctions in place against both the state and key individuals within it?"
The whole premise is utterly preposterous.
On the subject however of other countries using influence, resources and leverage to influence our Democracy, I wonder who many on this committee are fully paid up Friends of Israel?

[papasmurf]

Useful idiocy strikes again — with the number of dead Putin adversaries in the UK and elsewhere over the last few years, all questions were already answered.
As someone who regularly questions the efficiency of UK border controls, Russians spiriting operatives in and out of the country shouldn't surprise you...

They have not been answered at all. I was commenting on what have British spooks done with the Skripals.
If the Russians had kidnapped them I suspect we would have heard about that.
Personally if I wished to get a team of people into and out of Britain, I would not use a scheduled flights.

[Good old]

Russian interference

You need to qualify what is interference. Unless they rigged votes they can have done little.
If someone was going to vote stay and then changed their mind due to the sneaky Russians then what are you saying? I saw a couple of messages hidden in the header of emails but this wouldn't have changed my mind and I'm not convinced the average Joe goes looking in the header of emails anyway.

If the government won't look we will never know. There are a number of ways to attempt influence ,it doesn't have to have succeeded , it only has to have occurred ,for us to need to know. As interference is accepted to have happened in so many scenarios . It's not likely that the same sort of activity was not going on throughout the brexit  campaign.
Yet our beloved leaders can not even be bothered to have the security services  look. Or is it  easier than that.? They know but don't want us to know?

[Nick]

Russian interference

You need to qualify what is interference. Unless they rigged votes they can have done little.
If someone was going to vote stay and then changed their mind due to the sneaky Russians then what are you saying? I saw a couple of messages hidden in the header of emails but this wouldn't have changed my mind and I'm not convinced the average Joe goes looking in the header of emails anyway.

[Good old]

Corbyn despite the idiot abuse of him at the time, asked legitimate questions, that needed asking, (The Press/Media who should have been asking the government those questions didn't.
Plus the government "dissapears" two citizens of a foreign country and the media/press does not even question it.

Useful idiocy strikes again — with the number of dead Putin adversaries in the UK and elsewhere over the last few years, all questions were already answered.
As someone who regularly questions the efficiency of UK border controls, Russians spiriting operatives in and out of the country shouldn't surprise you...

The Russian, assassins would be doing handstands, if all they had to do was give the Mail, a bell, or watch Sky news for the latest , clue as to the whereabouts of their prey. A big part of Russian tactics , is to put pressure on our democracy, and the law that supports it. In that respect they have some success.

[patman post]

Corbyn despite the idiot abuse of him at the time, asked legitimate questions, that needed asking, (The Press/Media who should have been asking the government those questions didn't.
Plus the government "dissapears" two citizens of a foreign country and the media/press does not even question it.

Useful idiocy strikes again — with the number of dead Putin adversaries in the UK and elsewhere over the last few years, all questions were already answered.
As someone who regularly questions the efficiency of UK border controls, Russians spiriting operatives in and out of the country shouldn't surprise you...

[papasmurf]

Making sure Corbyn's prevarications (such as over Sergei and Yulia Skripal Salisbury attempted hit) get air time,

Corbyn despite the idiot abuse of him at the time, asked legitimate questions, that needed asking, (The Press/Media who should have been asking the government those questions didn't.
Plus the government "dissapears" two citizens of a foreign country and the media/press does not even question it.