General Brexit discussion thread

[johnofgwent]

It's not totally clear what you mean here, but if you are saying you got pulled up for reclaiming VAT back in the UK that had been paid in another country, can you name any non EU country where you would be allowed to claim back local sales or VAT taxes paid to that local country tax authority here in the UK?  That wouldn't make any sense because the UK tax authority doesn't have the tax for you to claim back.



Depending on the exact purchases you are making and the locations, you could theoretically avoid this (at least today) by making sure you are registered for VAT and making all purchases under your UK VAT registration, or, register for VAT in the other country and claim it back there if the goods or services were delivered by you in that country.

OK here goes



I sold services to France Telecom from the UK.



I was required to add VAT to those invoices at the UK rate, and send that money to the UK HMRC



In order to deliver those services, I incurred subsistence and travel expenditure taking myself to where France Telecom THEN had a regional office in Coquelles. Expenditure that included VAT paid as a VAT rated business to a VAT registered companyin Coquelles



Now.



Had I been delivering those services to British Telecom in Britain, or indeed France Telecom in Britain, I would have been able to subtract every penny of the input VAT element incurred on that contract against the output VAT I had to pass on to HM C&E as they were then.



Because I was delivering those services to France Telecom in France, From Britain, I was not allowed to reclaim the input VAT element of the expenditure incurred in Coquelles.



So what I am saying is that I was prevented from reclaiming input VAT, and when I complained, the letter I received from HM C&E declared it was EEC Policy to disallow VAT refunds for services provided in this way.



I don't know whether they were lying or not. I don't know if i was entitled to claim or not. All I know is I was denied my Input VAT and told it was EEC policy that I be denied it.



I rectified the situation by terminating the contract and demanding France Telecom do business with me in England and Wales. They did not like it, but they had little alternative given the mess they were in at the time.



To repeat myself again so you are crystal clear on the issue i have a grievance about.



In the period AFTER we joined the EEC but BEFORE John Major imposed Maastricht on us I carried out a VAT registered business in the UK and one of the services I provided was to a french Company with a point of delivery in France which meant I incurred expenses in that physical location. I was required to declare the output VAT and pay it in full, but denied the ability to reclaim input VAT by HM C&E Portcullis House Cardiff who said categorically this was because of an EEC ruling on VAT rated business between Britain and the EEC



I have no idea if this statement was factually correct. I chose not to challenge it because of the huge pile of penalties the bar stewards could throw at me. Instead, I changed my business model. But if you read the Treaty of Rome I should not have had to.

[BeElBeeBub]

What makes you think in a way to make these outlandish predictions?

I'm sure the UK will be fine after Brexit, but I'm a realist and know there will be some advantages and some disadvantages.

Ireland may reunite with Northern Ireland, but the likelihood of Ireland and the UK being in political union is virtually nil.

A rare moment wgen I agree with you!



There is brexit cheerleading and there is outright delusion...

[BeElBeeBub]

Perhaps you have missed that by leaving the EU we have shown the rest of the world that we value them more.

Brexit has been massively well received by all the non EU countries. And a fw of the EU countries too.

Who see us as leading the way.

they are looking on amazed at our stupidity. Name a country that thinks we are "leading the way"?

And if you think the US has a bad reputation globally, wait until you find out about the EU's,

Everyone hates them. China included.



Most comically of all, over half the EU hates the EU more than we do and we hated it so much that we left.

Again, I am not surprised. You were so comically ill informed about the WA and IP so why should you be able to see reality instead of the brexit induced distortion field?

[BeElBeeBub]

Really?.....what the hell was  EU directive 2008/89/EC about then?......albeit, it certainly does make the newer dark cars easier to see......but what about the climate???

All cars from 2011 (iirc) had to be fitted with them - which makes sense from a single market pov, but the national laws on their use is and always was up to individual countries. They are not mandatory in the UK.



My 2014 car has them fitted but the UK version of the software allows them to be turned off (if you really object to them)



Given they are (as pretty much all cars are) led based the power consumption is around a dozen watts. From a vehicle fitted with a 100kw or more power plant.



The environmental argument against them is pure BS, you lose more fuel economy leaving the window open or using the heated seats.

[Javert]

It was me, and the issue was that pre-maastricht but post 1973 Her Majesty's Customs And Excise who were then totally separate from the Tax Man made it quite clear in the letter sent to me that



1) any VAT input element of purchases made in the European Economic Community that attracted Value Added Tax in the course of providing goods and services to the Community were declared in a particular area of the form SEPARATELY from the boxes used to declare Vat Rated Inputs on purchases made inthe UK and



2) The amount declared pursuant to such EEC based purchases could not in any circumstances be deducted from the tax payable to the UK exchequer in respect of VAT rated sales made and



3) The requirement that I take it up the shitter was agreed in EEC regulation ABCXYZ



So YES, I did, and i still DO blame the EEC for this.

It's not totally clear what you mean here, but if you are saying you got pulled up for reclaiming VAT back in the UK that had been paid in another country, can you name any non EU country where you would be allowed to claim back local sales or VAT taxes paid to that local country tax authority here in the UK?  That wouldn't make any sense because the UK tax authority doesn't have the tax for you to claim back.



Depending on the exact purchases you are making and the locations, you could theoretically avoid this (at least today) by making sure you are registered for VAT and making all purchases under your UK VAT registration, or, register for VAT in the other country and claim it back there if the goods or services were delivered by you in that country.

[Stevlin]

Ireland won't be able to stand on its own when the EU self destructs due to corruption and internal fighting.



The British Isles belong together politically. We shouldn't let the Scotsmen go either. In that sense, I support the One-Nation Tories.

Scotland joined voluntarily,so if that is what the majority of Scots want, then they should be allowed to leave. It would  certainly create another border problem for the rest of the UK if Scotland did leave and then join the EU - but , that would be democracy in action, and we could always get the 'Wall expert' Trump to re build Hadrian's wall!

 The Scots shouldn't expect to keep  holding  referendums on the issue however, but after say a generation or so, (if the EU still exists then),  by all means,again  let them decide for themselves. Maybe a condition for leaving could be the Scots paying for the new 'Wall'.

 Such a division in the UK would undoubtedly be a 'smuggler's delight'!!....and any wall would easily be bypassed , even by  a small  boat.....A better idea would be to transfer NI to Scotland, and vice versa.....;o)

[johnofgwent]

I think it was you who blamed the EU for VAT issues you had with HMRC.....(genuine apologies if it wasn't you)



You certainly blamed the EU for forcing you to have daylight running lights on your car when it's not an EU requirement.

It was me, and the issue was that pre-maastricht but post 1973 Her Majesty's Customs And Excise who were then totally separate from the Tax Man made it quite clear in the letter sent to me that



1) any VAT input element of purchases made in the European Economic Community that attracted Value Added Tax in the course of providing goods and services to the Community were declared in a particular area of the form SEPARATELY from the boxes used to declare Vat Rated Inputs on purchases made inthe UK and



2) The amount declared pursuant to such EEC based purchases could not in any circumstances be deducted from the tax payable to the UK exchequer in respect of VAT rated sales made and



3) The requirement that I take it up the shitter was agreed in EEC regulation ABCXYZ



So YES, I did, and i still DO blame the EEC for this.

[HallowedBrexit]

What makes you think in a way to make these outlandish predictions?

I'm sure the UK will be fine after Brexit, but I'm a realist and know there will be some advantages and some disadvantages.

Ireland may reunite with Northern Ireland, but the likelihood of Ireland and the UK being in political union is virtually nil.

Ireland won't be able to stand on its own when the EU self destructs due to corruption and internal fighting.



The British Isles belong together politically. We shouldn't let the Scotsmen go either. In that sense, I support the One-Nation Tories.

[Baff]

Funnily enough I think the above will happen to the UK



Loss of authority and expectation

Loss of influence, slipping down the various measures of wealth and power.

Gradual decline, maybe breakup.



In the 20th century the UK was geographically and politically placed to link the US and Europe into "the west"



With the US's reputation teetering on the brink and China now rising, Europe will have to engage more with china and less with the US. If China reclaims it's usual position as the center, the UK is geographically, politically and culturally in the wrong place.

Perhaps you have missed that by leaving the EU we have shown the rest of the world that we value them more.

Brexit has been massively well received by all the non EU countries. And a fw of the EU countries too.

Who see us as leading the way.



And if you think the US has a bad reputation globally, wait until you find out about the EU's,

Everyone hates them. China included.



Most comically of all, over half the EU hates the EU more than we do and we hated it so much that we left.

[Stevlin]

You certainly blamed the EU for forcing you to have daylight running lights on your car when it's not an EU requirement.

Really?.....what the hell was  EU directive 2008/89/EC about then?......albeit, it certainly does make the newer dark cars easier to see......but what about the climate???

[BeElBeeBub]

really ??



If anything my experience is they blamed everybody else, god, climate change ...

I think it was you who blamed the EU for VAT issues you had with HMRC.....(genuine apologies if it wasn't you)



You certainly blamed the EU for forcing you to have daylight running lights on your car when it's not an EU requirement.

[johnofgwent]

The EU tend to take responsibility for their mistakes ...

really ??



If anything my experience is they blamed everybody else, god, climate change ...

[Borg Refinery]

Funnily enough I think the above will happen to the UK



Loss of authority and expectation

Loss of influence, slipping down the various measures of wealth and power.

Gradual decline, maybe breakup.



In the 20th century the UK was geographically and politically placed to link the US and Europe into "the west"



With the US's reputation teetering on the brink and China now rising, Europe will have to engage more with china and less with the US. If China reclaims it's usual position as the center, the UK is geographically, politically and culturally in the wrong place.

Hopefully not, but yes that seems likely.



Hopefully we are both wrong and that troll bot's post is actually what happens.  ::

[Barry]

This country will bloom again and the millions that have been siphoned into German coffers will be returned to us. I also predict that Ireland will reunited and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland will reemerge as the major political, economical and military power in Europe.

What makes you think in a way to make these outlandish predictions?

I'm sure the UK will be fine after Brexit, but I'm a realist and know there will be some advantages and some disadvantages.

Ireland may reunite with Northern Ireland, but the likelihood of Ireland and the UK being in political union is virtually nil.

[HallowedBrexit]

Funnily enough I think the above will happen to the UK



Loss of authority and expectation

Loss of influence, slipping down the various measures of wealth and power.

Gradual decline, maybe breakup.



In the 20th century the UK was geographically and politically placed to link the US and Europe into "the west"



With the US's reputation teetering on the brink and China now rising, Europe will have to engage more with china and less with the US. If China reclaims it's usual position as the center, the UK is geographically, politically and culturally in the wrong place.

No. Brexit is about the resurrection of the Anglosphere.



The Commonwealth countries, our dominions and the former thirteen colonies will all come together, with the UK leading the charge. The major conflict in the EU has always been us English vs the Germans and to a lesser extent the French.



The EU as a project has failed and we need to return to our cousins in the west. With Boris Johnson and Donald Trump leading our countries, the special relationship will, once more, dominate the world's politics.



The UK is ideally placed to control continental Europe. This position was taken from us in the aftermath of World War 2.



This country will bloom again and the millions that have been siphoned into German coffers will be returned to us. I also predict that Ireland will reunited and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland will reemerge as the major political, economical and military power in Europe.