General Brexit discussion thread

[cromwell]

Osborne: Out the SM  - date please? was that _during_ the ref? and it doesn't represent a whole movement, it is one individual opinion..



Letwin: Out the SM & CU - date please? was that _during_ the ref? and it doesn't represent a whole movement, it is one individual opinion..



Cameron: WTO Rules - date please? was that _during_ the ref? and it doesn't represent a whole movement, it is one individual opinion..



May: After the ref - irrelevant.



That video is incredibly poor as a hodgepodge of individual opinions.



And utterly misses the point anyway! Which is the Brexit campaigns - not the remainers - the Brexit campaigners; GO L.EU and VL all campaigned on a deal(!).



So my point stands.

Typical "I didn't like the result so it doesn't count"..........When was it said? feck sake........  Incredibly poor hodgepodge= I don't like what they said it doesn't count,and your point only stands in your head

[Thomas]

And utterly misses the point anyway! Which is the Brexit campaigns - not the remainers - the Brexit campaigners; GO L.EU and VL all campaigned on a deal(!).



So my point stands.

i will let cromwel deal with you other rubbish , but i will say the leave campaign wanted a deal and offered basically cherry picking parts of the SM which they wanted and leaving the bits like the 4 freedoms they didnt.



However , it takes two to tango , and the eu wouldnt agree to this sort of a deal.



So when you cant get one side onboard , the only way forward to enact the vote is to accept a no deal brexit is the likely result of no agreement.



You cant force the eu to agree to something they dont want to.Similarly you cant force brexiters to accpet freedom of movement and espcaially a customs union with the eu when ending the customs union was one of the basic reasons for leaving in the first place.



So your point doesnt stand , in fact it is unmitigated crap.



You are essentially trying to offer up a false dichotomy of doing a deal ( BRINO) or remaining , which no one voted for.



You must think people are feckin daft . Sounds like labour party bullshit to me .

[Borg Refinery]

No single market,no customs union and WTO.....of course you could say they never said any of this and it's all been made up or they did it in the middle of the night and no one saw it

Osborne: Out the SM  - date please? was that _during_ the ref? and it doesn't represent a whole movement, it is one individual opinion..



Letwin: Out the SM & CU - date please? was that _during_ the ref? and it doesn't represent a whole movement, it is one individual opinion..



Cameron: WTO Rules - date please? was that _during_ the ref? and it doesn't represent a whole movement, it is one individual opinion..



May: After the ref - irrelevant.



That video is incredibly poor as a hodgepodge of individual opinions.



And utterly misses the point anyway! Which is the Brexit campaigns - not the remainers - the Brexit campaigners; GO L.EU and VL all campaigned on a deal(!).



So my point stands.

[Thomas]

No single market,no customs union and WTO.....of course you could say they never said any of this and it's all been made up or they did it in the middle of the night and no one saw it

You tell em cromwell.



Thats the problem with the likes of labour and people like Dynamis...they hope we all have selective amnseia about what was said.



They want scottish folk to forget being promised to vote to stay in the uk to stay in the eu , and they want brexiters to forget what brexit actually should look like while trying to sell them a pig in a poke.

[cromwell]

By whom? There were many campaigns. And what about the SM? And I don't remember anyone touting leaving on WTO rules, not GO, leave.eu and certainly not vote leave??

No single market,no customs union and WTO.....of course you could say they never said any of this and it's all been made up or they did it in the middle of the night and no one saw it

[Thomas]

In my humble opinion, he clearly brought back a wholly unsupportable deal knowing full-well what would happen. Can't see that as 'doing well'.



This is likely the only time I've ever agreed with Farage on anything; that his deal is worse than May's..

ok so if you dont like johnsons deal , what deal would you like you see and why?

By whom? There were many campaigns. And what about the SM? And I don't remember anyone touting leaving on WTO rules, not GO, leave.eu and certainly not vote leave??

But they clearly argued the need to leave the customs union , one of the major reasons behind the leave campaign , so england or the wider uk could do its own trade deals.

Leave clearly campaigned on ending freedom of movement , and ECJ jurisdiction.



So what would you like to see Dynamis?

[Thomas]

Oh I'm not a fan of Nu Labour or Ed Miliband (the article was in 2013) so I can agree with most of that, so once again your fruitless accusations just reflect back on you.  :thup:

Fruitless?



You clearly said , or have you forgotten already  , that the reason "we" are in this mess is the fault of three tory prime ministers , and i showed you why i disagreed with your statement.



For the record dont just go lumping this all on new labour and the tories  , as though corbyn and his hard left anti semites are whiter than white.



Corbyn is one of the biggest brexiters in the commons and has been for years.



So no my accusations arent fruitless and dont reflect back at me.

Lol. They didn't go and negotiate the deal did they.. :fcplm: That was the point..

Right so you arent talking about the overarching brexit issue ? So you wish to narrow the blame down to johnsons WA deal .?(which then take cameron and may out of the blame game)



Right so can you tell me if you say you agree with brexit , and want the uk to leave as it voted to , tell me what type of deal would you Dynamis want? What in your opinion is wrong with johnsons deal?



Theres no rush , so take your time and explain what you want to see.?

= default no deal Brexit.

no the default is scotland being independent , the natural state of 200 nations around the world 62 of which traded london rule for indy.

...once again... :fcplm: Scotland didn't vote for that either but in reality that's what you'll get(!).

So if you accept that scotland wont get what it wants as its vote doesnt count what are you on about then? You are telling me no matter what we want  , it will be what england and its parliament wants that is foisted on us , which is why independence is the answer.



Really Dynamis, you and stevlin are making great recruiting officers for scottish indy you know. :hattip

(shrugs) And once again I don't disagree with any of that, it's true, but it doesn't provide any cover for the far more numerous Tory failures either.

...but again , what it does is shows how scotland is better off not being part of the uk , having their parliament rule us anti democratically and facing the choice of england electing two miserable failures of political parties by your own admission to govern scotland

[Borg Refinery]

Cameron the coward certainly,May who was about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.....But Boris for all his faults no.....not thus far.

In my humble opinion, he clearly brought back a wholly unsupportable deal knowing full-well what would happen. Can't see that as 'doing well'.



This is likely the only time I've ever agreed with Farage on anything; that his deal is worse than May's..

Well people were told if you vote leave we're out,no customs union and on WTO rules.....as near as no deal as you can imagine.

By whom? There were many campaigns. And what about the SM? And I don't remember anyone touting leaving on WTO rules, not GO, leave.eu and certainly not vote leave??

[Borg Refinery]

Dont agree. The idea that brexit , the brexit ref and the whole euroscpetic issue in england is the sole fault of three tory prime ministers is laughable rubbish.



I posted an in depth article to show why labour were responsible for the rise of ukip/brexit party.



tony blair flooded with the uk , alone of all nations in the eu  , with the newly joined eastern european countries when all the other eu member states had blocks on them , causing much anger and resentment in england.



In this below article from 2013 , it even mocks labour for one of their many abstensions on the bill for an eu referndum...











https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2013/06/tories-toast-labour-abstention-plan-for-eu-bill/">https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2013/06/t ... r-eu-bill/">https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2013/06/tories-toast-labour-abstention-plan-for-eu-bill/



While the tories have certainly been in the driving seat  , labour have been enabling them all the way with their wretched weakness.

Oh I'm not a fan of Nu Labour or Ed Miliband (the article was in 2013) so I can agree with most of that, so once again your fruitless accusations just reflect back on you.  :thup:

So no Dynamis , you dont get to throw all the blame on the tories for brexit.Labour are up to their necks in brexit as well , as a mere scratch under the surface of this long sorry brexit issue will show.

Lol. They didn't go and negotiate the deal did they.. :fcplm:  That was the point..

disingenuous rubbish.



I wont support any WA as scotland didnt vote for brexit ,  point one.

= default no deal Brexit.



...once again...  :fcplm:  Scotland didn't vote for that either but in reality that's what you'll get(!).

Point two is neither will the liberals and many of the smaller parties.



point three is those who are open to a WA have to say what it will contain , so far we know what johnsons bill contains , we dont know labours position.



Labour are happy to waffle away endlessly while no one trusts or listens to a thing they say , which is why they are polling so badly.



Labour simply oppose for the sake of opposing , and hope they can produce some BRINO to fool the public.



in short , it looks like a tory majority and johnsons WA , then we see where we go next. Thats if the uk still exists of course....

(shrugs) And once again I don't disagree with any of that, it's true, but it doesn't provide any cover for the far more numerous Tory failures either.

[cromwell]

That is pretty broadly accurate - I wanted Theresa May to bring back a good deal that sorted the Irish issue out and for parliament to vote for it. The backstop was the real kicker.



IMHO it is her, Cameron and Bojo's fault that we are in this mess, no one else's.

Cameron the coward certainly,May who was about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.....But Boris for all his faults no.....not thus far.

Also IMHO - No one voted for No-Deal just like no one voted for BINO. It is 100% clear that a fair TEMP WAIB deal that all sides can support is the only way forward here.

Well people were told if you vote leave we're out,no customs union and on WTO rules.....as near as no deal as you can imagine.

[Thomas]

IMHO it is her, Cameron and Bojo's fault that we are in this mess, no one else's.

Dont agree. The idea that brexit , the brexit ref and the whole euroscpetic issue in england is the sole fault of three tory prime ministers is laughable rubbish.



I posted an in depth article to show why labour were responsible for the rise of ukip/brexit party.



https://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-are-to-blame-for-ukip/">https://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labou ... -for-ukip/">https://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-are-to-blame-for-ukip/







tony blair flooded with the uk , alone of all nations in the eu  , with the newly joined eastern european countries when all the other eu member states had blocks on them , causing much anger and resentment in england.



In this below article from 2013 , it even mocks labour for one of their many abstensions on the bill for an eu referndum...

Tories toast Labour abstention plan for EU bill

[/b]



https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2013/06/tories-toast-labour-abstention-plan-for-eu-bill/">https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2013/06/t ... r-eu-bill/">https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2013/06/tories-toast-labour-abstention-plan-for-eu-bill/



While the tories have certainly been in the driving seat  , labour have been enabling them all the way with their wretched weakness.



So no Dynamis, you dont get to throw all the blame on the tories for brexit.Labour are up to their necks in brexit as well , as a mere scratch under the surface of this long sorry brexit issue will show.

It is 100% clear that a fair TEMP WAIB deal that all sides can support is the only way forward here.

disingenuous rubbish.



I wont support any WA as scotland didnt vote for brexit ,  point one.



Point two is neither will the liberals and many of the smaller parties.



point three is those who are open to a WA have to say what it will contain , so far we know what johnsons bill contains , we dont know labours position.



Labour are happy to waffle away endlessly while no one trusts or listens to a thing they say , which is why they are polling so badly.



Labour simply oppose for the sake of opposing , and hope they can produce some BRINO to fool the public.



in short , it looks like a tory majority and johnsons WA , then we see where we go next. Thats if the uk still exists of course....

[Borg Refinery]

Ok great then we agree.



Independence for england and scotland , and let the english people have brexit as they democratically voted for.



Excellent.

That is pretty broadly accurate - I wanted Theresa May to bring back a good deal that sorted the Irish issue out and for parliament to vote for it. The backstop was the real kicker.



IMHO it is her, Cameron and Bojo's fault that we are in this mess, no one else's.



Also IMHO - No one voted for No-Deal just like no one voted for BINO. It is 100% clear that a fair TEMP WAIB deal that all sides can support is the only way forward here.



I believe you agree with me on all of this as well, we really have zero disagreement.

[Thomas]

And I agree with that, and if I were Scot I'd vote SNP too.  ::



Maybe now it will finally sink in, that you are hurling strange and completely non-relevant accusations at folks who mostly agree with scot independence..?

Ok great then we agree.



Independence for england and scotland , and let the english people have brexit as they democratically voted for.



Excellent.

[Borg Refinery]

I will complain  , and keep pointing out this is what happens when you are in an unfair one sided union with england.



https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/another_independent_country-600x432.jpg">



its not just us of course , theres something about london rule that made all these countries want to leave too.



We are going to take brexit around every corner of scotland , and milk it dry. :hattip

And I agree with that, and if I were Scot I'd vote SNP too.  ::



Maybe now it will finally sink in, that you are hurling strange and completely non-relevant accusations at folks who mostly agree with scot independence..?

[Thomas]

It says something that you see the place as a classroom. ..



Er no, you don't have a concise view on any of it, as has been explained to you many times now by several of us 'big boys' in your imagined classroom. And trivial BS as you put it, is paid in response to same - so please, spare me the whinnying.



Look, if you want your country to get kicked in the nackers by NDBrexit you go ahead - but don't complain when that inevitably happens. That's all I'm saying.  ::

I will complain  , and keep pointing out this is what happens when you are in an unfair one sided union with england.



https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/another_independent_country-600x432.jpg">



its not just us of course , theres something about london rule that made all these countries want to leave too.



We are going to take brexit around every corner of scotland , and milk it dry. :hattip