General Brexit discussion thread

[Borg Refinery]

No quote needed, cos it was a reply to all 3 of you at once (you, scott and cromwell).



You can 'support England's Brexit' all you like, when it happens I expect it will destitute Scotland pretty badly and the reality will hit home. You are simply going to suffer - despite whether you want indy or not.



All the progress the SNP made (which is considerable) will be erased and you will suffer for it. It's turkeys wishing for xmas, or the more colourful analogy Peter Wishart used in the commons!



Therefore, it is in YOUR interests to work within the confines of a corrupt system (for now; temporarily) to help us stop Brexit, get in a coalition and invoke scot indyref2.



Your us vs them tone of posting isn't necessary - well not against me anyway. I happen to like Scotland and the Scottish; and I'm part Scottish myself by blood too.

[Thomas]

Please let me know the many illegal tactics, and who exactly put the gun to your head when you voted.

The illegal tactic was you won scott.! ::



Didnt javert tell you? It wasnt allowed!!!

[Thomas]

The problem with all your posts is that every single point is based on a (false) assumption, and even when you correct these false assumptions, you replace them with another one, or simply ignore the correction and then proceed on regardless.



Example no 1: You assume I voted remain; no 2, you assume I support the union (despite it being explained about 3 times that that's not the case) etc..



Not a very... productive way of debating is it?

it might help old fruit if you start off by mastering the quote tags so we can see who you are addressing your post to instead of guessing.



I dont care if you voted remain or leave , nor do i care if you support the union or not.



If you dont live in scotland , you dont have a say on scottish indy. So its meaningless outside of the confines of debate on this forum if you say you support scottish indy. so what?



I support englands brexit old fruit . So put that in your pipe and smoke it . :hattip



As for the rest , i have answered your posts and points adequately , so if you have something usefull or interesting to say , fire away. lets debate.

[Borg Refinery]

The problem with all your posts is that every single point is based on a (false) assumption, and even when you correct these false assumptions, you replace them with another one, or simply ignore the correction and then proceed on regardless.



Example no 1: You assume I voted remain; no 2, you assume I support the union (despite it being explained about 3 times that that's not the case) etc..



Not a very... productive way of debating is it?

[Scott777]

It's not strictly true that we voted fairly & freely for Brexit.



Both sides cheated heinously, and employed many illegal tactics to push their political dogmas on the public. It's likely a 2nd ref would be exactly the same whilst the electoral commission is a toothless fine-disher-outer with no real power; the LD 'revoke' strategy is wholly anti-democratic...and the ND kamikazes are equally as bad.

Please let me know the many illegal tactics, and who exactly put the gun to your head when you voted.

[Scott777]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?



I've defined the leave deal as I believe was promised and would be acceptable to me.



No I don't want 10 immigrants in my home which luckily for me isn't a policy of any UK or EU political movement.



You also seem to have a very distorted idea of my arguments about parliamentry sovereignty.



I am not surprised, to tilt at imaginary policies of your opponent is a very common trait amongst brexiters.



If the EU actually was as represented by Brexiters I would be happily campaigning against it.it's just that I have looked long and hard at the EU and found that it doesn't resemble the institution brexiters paint.

No problem, so given that there are so many interpretations of what you actually want, it will be okay for your MP to do whatever he/she wants, and that fits with parliamentary sovereignty and representative democracy, so we're all happy.  I'm so glad we cleared that up.

[cromwell]

Democracy in this disunited kingdom is a feckin sham.



...but all i seem to be hearing from bleating english remianers is that while in 2014 , practically everyone of them , the english left right and centre , were more than happy to either participate in that sham and help the lies of better together to keep scotland in this union by either remianing silent or joining in , they are now bleating about the 2016 brexit referendum because they lied , brexiters lied , and the english public believed brexiters lies over yours.



The only sham from your point of view was you lost.



Alec slamond clearly told the english remain side to tone down their remain lies on the run up to the day of the 2016 referendum , and remains project fear , and you didnt listen.



The english public put two fingers up to you and voted leave.



Our referendum in 2014 was enacted , so must yours be.

 :hattip  :hattip

[Thomas]

Nope. The ref was a sham as you pointed out with your comparison to scot indyref, so you've virtually already conceded this. (shrug)

Democracy in this disunited kingdom is a feckin sham.



...but all i seem to be hearing from bleating english remianers is that while in 2014 , practically everyone of them , the english left right and centre , were more than happy to either participate in that sham and help the lies of better together to keep scotland in this union by either remianing silent or joining in , they are now bleating about the 2016 brexit referendum because they lied , brexiters lied , and the english public believed brexiters lies over yours.



The only sham from your point of view was you lost.



Alec slamond clearly told the english remain side to tone down their remain lies on the run up to the day of the 2016 referendum , and remains project fear , and you didnt listen.



The english public put two fingers up to you and voted leave.



Our referendum in 2014 was enacted , so must yours be.

[Borg Refinery]

I passionately believe in democracy. It has been disgusting watching the anti democratic english remainers in westminster renege on the promises 80 % of them were elected on in 2017 , and defy the democratic will of the english people to leave the eu.



Lets hope the english people turn out in their droves and punish them at the ballot box in 6 weeks time. Especially the anti democratic labour party , and their dogs dinner of a brexit policy.

Nope. The ref was a sham as you pointed out with your comparison to scot indyref, so you've virtually already conceded this. (shrug)

[Borg Refinery]

The will of the english people must be enacted , and if your referendum was deemed un fair because ....shock ....horror ...somebody told a few porkies, then we were lied to first in scotland , so demand an independence referendum re run first here before the brexit re run takes place. ::

Agreed, have scot indyref2 if you wish, no issue with that.



I've always supported Scot independence anyway.



A rerun will achieve SFA without a functioning electoral commission, it will be verbatim the same as the first one.

[Borg Refinery]

Well twos up , thats exactly what im saying.



your country isnt my country , and im no more interested than wether fine gael can get ireland on its feet , the republicans america , or la republique en marche can in france.

Fair enough. My opinion remains unchanged.



FWIW I support Scottish independence as I assumed you had guessed.

Well when i read some patronising shyster in englandshire tell me scotland exists to save england from itself , i tend to laugh my head off. :roll:

That's a huge leap from what I said but okay.



I have no issue with Scot indy and I'd also like Irish reunification to, if you object to the use of the term 'UK' it was more of an afterthought.

[Thomas]

I'm always a bit surprised by your logic that because you think the anti independence side cheated in the Independence referendum and got away with it, this means that those who cheated in a later referendum should also get away with it.

Where am i saying anyone should get away with cheating?



Is this more javert type double speak and misinterpretation to suit javerts own agenda?



Im clearly saying , as i have on the old forum , cheating isnt something that only happened in the brexit referendum. I pointed out with examples where it happened in the scot indy ref , and many general elections.



However  , whatever cheating you say happened in the 2016 referendum doesnt seem to have worked does it? You are still in the eu , so what are you bleating about?





Meanwhile those who cheated in 2014 have got their way , as we are still in your disunited kingdom.



lastly all i am saying is where do you draw the line? Re run every referendum ( you are then at the back of the queue ) and election in history where lying occured?

[Javert]

The will of the english people must be enacted , and if your referendum was deemed un fair because ....shock ....horror ...somebody told a few porkies, then we were lied to first in scotland , so demand an independence referendum re run first here before the brexit re run takes place. ::

I'm always a bit surprised by your logic that because you think the anti independence side cheated in the Independence referendum and got away with it, this means that those who cheated in a later referendum should also get away with it.



At what level of cheating should an election be questioned or cancelled?  



To me, if one or other side cheated illegally in any referendum, including the 2014 Scottish one, it should be anulled and re-run.  Just saying "oh well, it's water under the bridge now" is just going to encourage more and more cheating in elections.

[Thomas]

It's not strictly true that we voted fairly & freely for Brexit.



Both sides cheated heinously, and employed many illegal tactics to push their political dogmas on the public. It's likely a 2nd ref would be exactly the same whilst the electoral commission is a toothless fine-disher-outer with no real power; the LD 'revoke' strategy is wholly anti-democratic...and the ND kamikazes are equally as bad.



That leaves us with getting a good deal, with Bozo determined to bring back the most unsupportable deals possible, in ordee to FORCE a NDB on us; which NO-ONe voted for in England or elsewhere.



The leave campaigns clearly campaigned for a good deal in the referendum; all of them... Leave.Eu,Vote Leave, G.O etc. No it is not the English's will to have a no deal Brexit, that is incorrect.

I passionately believe in democracy. It has been disgusting watching the anti democratic english remainers in westminster renege on the promises 80 % of them were elected on in 2017 , and defy the democratic will of the english people to leave the eu.



Lets hope the english people turn out in their droves and punish them at the ballot box in 6 weeks time. Especially the anti democratic labour party , and their dogs dinner of a brexit policy.

[Thomas]

It's not strictly true that we voted fairly & freely for Brexit.



Both sides cheated heinously, and employed many illegal tactics to push their political dogmas on the public. It's likely a 2nd ref would be exactly the same whilst the electoral commission is a toothless fine-disher-outer with no real power; the LD 'revoke' strategy is wholly anti-democratic...and the ND kamikazes are equally as bad.



That leaves us with getting a good deal, with Bozo determined to bring back the most unsupportable deals possible, in ordee to FORCE a NDB on us; which NO-ONe voted for in England or elsewhere.



The leave campaigns clearly campaigned for a good deal in the referendum; all of them... Leave.Eu,Vote Leave, G.O etc. No it is not the English's will to have a no deal Brexit, that is incorrect.

The will of the english people must be enacted , and if your referendum was deemed un fair because ....shock ....horror ...somebody told a few porkies, then we were lied to first in scotland , so demand an independence referendum re run first here before the brexit re run takes place. ::