General Brexit discussion thread

[papasmurf]

Just published by the National Audit Office:-

More at link:-

https://www.nao.org.uk/press-release/the-uk-border-preparedness-for-the-end-of-the-transition-period/

Even if government makes further progress with its preparations, there is still likely to be significant disruption at the border from 1 January 2021 as traders will be unprepared for new EU border controls which will require additional administration and checks. The government's latest reasonable worst-case planning assumptions, from September 2020, are that 40% to 70% per cent of hauliers will not be ready for these new controls and up to 7,000 lorries may need to queue at the approach to the short Channel crossings,6 such as Dover to Calais.

[Nick]

Good.  So you now are saying there will there will now be a tariff border on the point of regulatory alignment. On a crash out.   Now point out where I said the EU would, build one?

Simple answer.  A border is where two regulatory alignments meet.  And that means the EU will put up a border.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

As for you saying 'Now I say'... I have never said anything about there not being a customs border between SI and NI. What Brexiteers do say is that the UK will not be implementing a hard border, as you said and then questioned, the EU will do that.

[Jaydee]

No, I am not saying that, nor have I ever said that. What I said was the UK will not erect a hard border: To which you said the EU would build one, I said that SI would love that. The end.

Good.  So you now are saying there will there will now be a tariff border on the point of regulatory alignment. On a crash out.   Now point out where I said the EU would, build one?  That is a question,  with a question mark.   As you go of on another tangent . Let me repeat what I said.

What part of where two regulatory alignment meets in the EU it requires a trade border. Can you not grasp.  You said there will be no border.  That is what you said. There has always been one in Ireland since 1923. Consequently the dividing line between these two parts of the island of Ireland became a international border.  And on Brexit the EU left it to the UK government how it would work. At first the backstop.  On 17 October 2019, a revised withdrawal agreement that replaced the backstop with a new protocol was agreed by the EU leaders and Big Kraky Bojo the world leading muppet. That idiotic despotic world beating buffoon, and another one of his world beating oven ready deals,  did not know what he signed and now  welching on the deal.   And Biden has left him in no doubt. That is what it has to do with your rant of a strawman argument, and Big kranky Bojo. And pointless going over it again with you. . You are on a new chapter of the Emperor's Clothes. And still in denial.

That is what I said. And you are even denying I said that.  See post 1665 timed 11.15 am  on 3rd November.  So stop lying through  your teeth, making out and inferring things I did not say.  Which is a total disgrace from a so called administrator who is supposed to be totally impartial. You are about as impartial as Trump.  Under threat of a ban. If I do not agree.   You really do  think you are dealing with some half wit.

Now to continue onto what I also asked you. Point out.  How is big kranky bojo the world beating muppet.  Going to stop illegal immigration into the UK from the EU.   If he allows the CTA to continue?   That is that muppets red line.  I take it you understand what that is.   And oh look.  I even put a question mark.   It confuses some on here, as a excuse as they are screwed for answer.    If it is not there.  The beginning.

[Jaydee]

You really are a comedian, Jaydee. Please stop it, my sides are hurting.
Did you come here to have a serious debate?
Then you need to be able to communicate, matey.  Because. there is. a shortage. of full stops. especially after question marks?..
I'm enjoying the entertainment, even if it is a bit repetitive.
Keep posting, I'm waiting for the pearls of wisdom, there must be some.

Yes I agree. I miss out question marks.  You miss out answers.  I am glad you admit it is a problem for you.  When a question mark is not there.  Have fun hurting your sides.  When I ask a question.  By the way.  Would you care to correct anything I have said.  That is on any post.  Or do you just like sore sides?   Oh look the question asked has a question mark. You now do not have a problem.  I await corrections.  And a conclusion on who is the comedian   

[Nick]

Are you saying on a crash out there will be no tariff border between the EU and the UK.

No, I am not saying that, nor have I ever said that. What I said was the UK will not erect a hard border: To which you said the EU would build one, I said that SI would love that. The end.

[Barry]

Sheepy.  Which was totally meaningless verbal nonsense.

You really are a comedian, Jaydee. Please stop it, my sides are hurting.
Did you come here to have a serious debate?
Then you need to be able to communicate, matey.  Because. there is. a shortage. of full stops. especially after question marks?..
I'm enjoying the entertainment, even if it is a bit repetitive.
Keep posting, I'm waiting for the pearls of wisdom, there must be some.

[Jaydee]

I never uttered the words UK or Ireland, I posted about Hungary and Serbia.
We are discussing similar borders worldwide not the UK/EU border, please stop asking me questions about it.
You've also been told by others you're not following the thread, it isn't just me.

You made the statement at the time of your unprovoked insult to me on this thread.  That there  would never be a border where the regulatory alignments of the EU and the UK clash.I repeat.   That was on this thread. I am replying and asking you questions on this thread.  On what you posted. That is how it read to me.  As you went of on a waffle about grammar to divert. Because you were totally incapable of a answer. If that is not what you are saying.   Then without hesitation I apologise. Unlike you I have that ability.  And Brexit is about the UK and the EU.  Not the Hungarian border. I am on topic.  So what are you saying. How many times do you need asking.  Are you saying on a crash out there will be no tariff border between the EU and the UK.  If so you are 100% wrong.  End off.  In terms of others.  You let me worry about what they post to me. I am capable of answering for myself. You worry about what I post to you. And the others you are on about was one. Sheepy.  Which was totally meaningless verbal nonsense.  And why would I wish to stop asking questions about what you post.  That is the core element of a discussion forum. Or is everybody supposed to agree with you.  And threatened with a ban if they do not.   You are wrong and know it.  But do not have the ability to admit it. There is a old saying in politics.  When in a hole.  Stop digging. 

[Nick]

Its called a question on what you posted. Logical, illogical.  Asked for or not asked for. On a open forum.  The basic principle of debate. A question is a question. So here it is again in a different way.  From your denial there will be a border where two regulatory alignments meet in the UK.  Holes or otherwise.  Are you still saying there will be no border regarding tariff.  On that border where the EU/UK meet.  And that the CTA will disappear?  That is what you were saying. And 100% wrong.   If that is not what you were saying.  What exactly are you saying?.    That is now two questions.  You are kidding nobody.   And I am very sorry if you misunderstood me.  I am not accusing you of dodging the question.  I am telling you, You dodge every question.  And speaking on your insults to me about grammar.  What does BOUT mean

I never uttered the words UK or Ireland, I posted about Hungary and Serbia.
We are discussing similar borders worldwide not the UK/EU border, please stop asking me questions about it.
You've also been told by others you're not following the thread, it isn't just me.

[BeElBeeBub]

Clearly I don't mean Schengen borders, I mean all the open external borders of which there are many.

I very much doubt smugglers stop at an open border and say 'Sorry lads we are not legally allowed to cross here'. The EU borders are doing nothing to stop illegal passage of goods, same as it would at the NI/SI border.

I think you're getting mixed up.

Yes smuggling happens across many borders.  Stuff was smuggled across the iron curtain back in the day and nobody could accuse that of being an open border

The point is that what is currently a normal, unhindered legal movement of goods and people across the NI border will become smuggling and illegal.

A builder popping over the border to pick up some copper pipe, will have to go through the various procedures or do it illegally.

Imagine if the nearest county border to you (I happen to live half a mile from one - our regular shop is "over the border"), was in fact in a different tariff/regulation area.

Every trip across would need to be official (like in the YT video)

Any commercial trip, say with a van load of bikes, would need official paperwork

How much hassle would that be?

[Jaydee]

Well, for one thing, on the 1st Jan 2021 any person with an EU issued passport expecting to rock up.hrte and demand a NINO as of right is able to be told they cannot have one. Because as of that date the right to work here is once again in the gift of our government, not twenty odd others..

The right to refuse entry to  the UK from anywhere in the world has been  the gift of the UK government.   Since time began.  It is not in the Schengen area.  I am afraid you will to explain to me what rock up.hrte and demand a NINO means. 

[johnofgwent]

The UK is not in the schengen area.  Everybody who enters the Uk from anywhere in the world, including the EU is subject to passport control.  Because this bunch of toss pots in Number 10 decimated the border force  and the police force.  Resulting in total failure to police the border.  Is a separate issue. On top of that.  Since 2012. The Uk internal security forces and immigration have had total access to all EU criminal records. And Cressida Dick did not order anyone to be gunned down.  A police officer is subject to the full force of the law.  And is responsible for his actions.  And has nothing to fear if he acted in this case,  that he  had cause to believe his life or that of others were in danger.  And his action will be processed in due course of law.  That is a matter for the prosecuting authority.  Not the police.  However let me ask you a question. On this subject of border. What will the UK be able to do on 1st January.  That it cannot do now, or I correct.  When it was a full member of the EU, or now?.

Well, for one thing, on the 1st Jan 2021 any person with an EU issued passport expecting to rock up.hrte and demand a NINO as of right is able to be told they cannot have one. Because as of that date the right to work here is once again in the gift of our government, not twenty odd others..

[Jaydee]

WHAT HAS ANY OF THE ABOVE GOT TO DO WITH THE EU HAVING UNCHECKED BORDERS WITH NON EU COUNTRIES?

If you wish to follow the thread in a logical order and post responses that actually reference a previous post I will be more than happy to correspond. I have no interest in responding to questions that are randomly thrown in just to detract from the thread.  You will no doubt accuse me of dodging your question: Ask one that follows on from the point I made that the EU has big gaping holes in its borders then I will respond.

Its called a question on what you posted. Logical, illogical.  Asked for or not asked for. On a open forum.  The basic principle of debate. A question is a question. So here it is again in a different way.  From your denial there will be a border where two regulatory alignments meet in the UK.  Holes or otherwise.  Are you still saying there will be no border regarding tariff.  On that border where the EU/UK meet.  And that the CTA will disappear?  That is what you were saying. And 100% wrong.   If that is not what you were saying.  What exactly are you saying?.    That is now two questions.  You are kidding nobody.   And I am very sorry if you misunderstood me.  I am not accusing you of dodging the question.  I am telling you, You dodge every question.  And speaking on your insults to me about grammar.  What does BOUT mean

[Nick]

Which part of the UK is not in the schengen area do you not understand.  Everybody is subject to passport control, where ever they entered the UK, from anywhere.  It has nothing to do with the EU.  And what has open borders, which in plain English are still borders, all over the world to do with a upcoming EU/UK tariff border.  At the point where two regulatory alignment meet. Instead of  ducking, diving  and weaving.  And moving the goal posts. What exactly is your problem.  And what exactly  are you trying to say.  Are you saying there will be no borders for the purpose of tariffs when the UK leaves the EU on the termination of the transition.  .  Or are you on about the CTA.   Between the ROI and the United Kingdom

WHAT HAS ANY OF THE ABOVE GOT TO DO WITH THE EU HAVING UNCHECKED BORDERS WITH NON EU COUNTRIES?

If you wish to follow the thread in a logical order and post responses that actually reference a previous post I will be more than happy to correspond. I have no interest in responding to questions that are randomly thrown in just to detract from the thread.  You will no doubt accuse me of dodging your question: Ask one that follows on from the point I made that the EU has big gaping holes in its borders then I will respond.

[Jaydee]

You asked a question bout my post when I was answering another post.

If Hungary hadn't built its intelligent fence some years back there would be an open border with Serbia. As for the rest of the EU, there are loads of open borders which you can drive through or walk over. Just look on Google Earth.
Don't even need to look world wide there are that many examples of holes in the EU.

Yes I know.  I was asking you about the EU and the holes, you were on about.  It is called free movement.    As every post you make is of on a tangent with the last one. As you are doing now. Rather  than answer any question.   I will post the entire posts.  This is what you said..

If Hungary hadn't built its intelligent fence some years back there would be an open border with Serbia. As for the rest of the EU, there are loads of open borders which you can drive through or walk over. Just look on Google Earth.
Don't even need to look world wide there are that many examples of holes in the EU.

This is what I posted in response to your post on open forum.  What does it matter to who you posted it to.  The question was asked on what you said.  And you are not going to answer.   You are making that very clear.  And the UK  is not in a hole. Re borders.  Apart from the ability to police, being decimated by the tosspots in Number 10. Here is what I stated.

Which part of the UK is not in the schengen area do you not understand.  Everybody is subject to passport control, where ever they entered the UK, from anywhere.  It has nothing to do with the EU.  And what has open borders, which in plain English are still borders, all over the world to do with a upcoming EU/UK tariff border.  At the point where two regulatory alignment meet. Instead of  ducking, diving  and weaving.  And moving the goal posts. What exactly is your problem.  And what exactly  are you trying to say.  Are you saying there will be no borders for the purpose of tariffs when the UK leaves the EU on the termination of the transition.  .  Or are you on about the CTA.   Between the ROI and the United Kingdom

And contained in the above was the question.

Are you saying there will be no borders for the purpose of tariffs when the UK leaves the EU on the termination of the transition.  .  Or are you on about the CTA.   Between the ROI and the United Kingdom?

Which by any stretch of anyone's imagination.  Is a very simple question.  And I will conclude.  You now realise.  There will be a border between the two regulatory alignments.  Which is about to happen.  Which you were in denial. And 100% wrong.  But not going to admit it.   Now if what I just said is wrong.   Correct it. 

[Nick]

Tell me something.  I asked. Are you saying there will be no borders for the purpose of tariffs when the UK leaves the EU on the termination of the transition.  Or are you on about the CTA.   Between the ROI and the United Kingdom?

You asked a question bout my post when I was answering another post.

it's not just bikes and beef it's everything.

Can you give an example of a border anywhere in the world that is like the Irish border (or any of the internal EU borders)  where there are twomdiffenet tariff/regulatory regimes?

If Hungary hadn't built its intelligent fence some years back there would be an open border with Serbia. As for the rest of the EU, there are loads of open borders which you can drive through or walk over. Just look on Google Earth.
Don't even need to look world wide there are that many examples of holes in the EU.