General Brexit discussion thread

[papasmurf]

By leaving on WTO terms we are able to set our own tariff regimes, sign our own trade deals and set our own regulations and standards to better harmonise with our other trade partners as a priority.

Oh dear, have you ever bother to check the current state of the WTO?  The dispute resolution system is close to collapse, and WTO terms will be a total disaster for Britain.

[Thomas]

That kind of freedom is not what your nation voted for or what the SNP wanted. What are you? Some kind of SNP Brexiteer? Only respecting democracy for your own people when they vote the way you want?

No , as all the old forum members know i voted remain , and argued for remain.

You talk abour respecting democracy which is a feckin laugh with duplicitous hard left labours track record.

If it wasnt for labour scotland would be an independent country today , where you stood toe to toe with the tories and others in 2014 to keep us tied into this union.

So dont act all caring and concerned for scotland being dragged out of the eu. All you cared about was scotland being a usefull tool to bolster your own shaky remain position and keep england in the eu.

You proved you dont respect democracy in any way , and the english and scottish people gave you a right kicking over it.

Labour told us time and again they would rather scotland was ruled for the next thousand years by tory governments and taken out the eu than have independence.

Anyway red rob , what is labours latest position on brexit? Are you still trying to punt some BRINO to your own people?

[Baff]

Yes.

The EU external trade tariffs, standards and regulations create trade barriers for us with the rest of the planet.
Which is where the bulk of our international trade takes place and the bulk of all trade opportunities are.

By leaving on WTO terms we are able to set our own tariff regimes, sign our own trade deals and set our own regulations and standards to better harmonise with our other trade partners as a priority.

[GerryT]

Simply put brexit is introducing barriers, raising risk and effectively shrinking the effective size of the UK market. These barriers to trade will not help, they will impede business.

It will likely introduce barriers to some but it reduces barriers to a great many more.

Its looking like the UK will leave on WTO, can you explain how that reduces barriers to the many.

[Baff]

Simply put brexit is introducing barriers, raising risk and effectively shrinking the effective size of the UK market. These barriers to trade will not help, they will impede business.

It will likely introduce barriers to some but it reduces barriers to a great many more.

[srb7677]

I fink 13 quid is a price worth paying for freedom dont you?

That kind of freedom is not what your nation voted for or what the SNP wanted. What are you? Some kind of SNP Brexiteer? Only respecting democracy for your own people when they vote the way you want?

[Thomas]

You were insinuating the uk would stuggle to survive an alleged price rise in food because of brexit...

I actually posted in #699: The UK produces less than 50% of its own food. That doesn't mean there's going to be famine come 2021, but it does promise a hike in prices of food from the EU as different customs inspections and transport rules come into play...

And it was your own link << https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-02-12/what-if-we-only-ate-food-from-local-farms/ >> that appeared to offer the enticing diet of wheat and potatoes:

In 2018, the UK grew 13.5 million tonnes of wheat and 3.2 million tonnes of potatoes for human consumption on an area that amounted to about 31% of its arable land and 10% of its total farmland. Those two crops alone provide more than enough protein to meet the daily recommended amount for all of Britain's 66.4 million people over a whole year, and about 85% of recommended calorific intake. It would be easy enough to meet the remaining 15% from crops on the rest of the farmland, or by expanding wheat and potato production a little.

You were questioning my statement the uk hadnt been self sufficient in food for hundreds of years , and the only part of the link i supplied , and that you quote above , that was relevant was the bit that said

correctly pointing out that Britain hasn't been self-sufficient in food for two centuries.

and then you went on the bleat sumfing about hundreds of years not meaning (200?) or some such other cac.

The rest of the link is an irrelevance.

The lowst level of self sufficiency the uk had in food production was around the 1950`s decades before european membership , and the point i was making is , despite your bleat that is we leave at the end of december with no deal fire and flood and all the usual scaremongering we have been accustomed to you waffling on about , uk self sufficiency in food has again been falling these last twenty years of eu membership , and yep , we are still here and still surviving.

Ah but what about major price rises in food after hard brexit , fire and flood and the end of the earth etc etc waffle waffle?

The worst case example? £13 a week price rise on the average food shop , worst case scenario , or should that be "wurst kase" as the germans would say.

Less than you spend each day on your baked quinoa falafel sandwich and iced tea at lunch break.

Anyway do you have something to discuss  further , or do you just want to scaremonger a bit more patbox? I fink 13 quid is a price worth paying for freedom dont you?

[papasmurf]

I actually posted in #699: The UK produces less than 50% of its own food. That doesn't mean there's going to be famine come 2021, but it does promise a hike in prices of food from the EU as different customs inspections and transport rules come into play...

And it was your own link << https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-02-12/what-if-we-only-ate-food-from-local-farms/ >> that appeared to offer the enticing diet of wheat and potatoes:

In 2018, the UK grew 13.5 million tonnes of wheat and 3.2 million tonnes of potatoes for human consumption on an area that amounted to about 31% of its arable land and 10% of its total farmland. Those two crops alone provide more than enough protein to meet the daily recommended amount for all of Britain's 66.4 million people over a whole year, and about 85% of recommended calorific intake. It would be easy enough to meet the remaining 15% from crops on the rest of the farmland, or by expanding wheat and potato production a little.

Those yields depend on the current unsustainable in the long term production methods, when long term sustainable methods have to be used the yield of potatoes will drop by 90%.
I am unaware of the current yield per hectare of wheat.
I did however back when dinosaurs ruled the earth get a field of wheat to yield 7 tonnes per hectare.  BUT that took five years worth of the manure produced by 40 dairy cows in a covered yard.

[patman post]

You were insinuating the uk would stuggle to survive an alleged price rise in food because of brexit...

I actually posted in #699: The UK produces less than 50% of its own food. That doesn't mean there's going to be famine come 2021, but it does promise a hike in prices of food from the EU as different customs inspections and transport rules come into play...

And it was your own link << https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-02-12/what-if-we-only-ate-food-from-local-farms/ >> that appeared to offer the enticing diet of wheat and potatoes:

In 2018, the UK grew 13.5 million tonnes of wheat and 3.2 million tonnes of potatoes for human consumption on an area that amounted to about 31% of its arable land and 10% of its total farmland. Those two crops alone provide more than enough protein to meet the daily recommended amount for all of Britain's 66.4 million people over a whole year, and about 85% of recommended calorific intake. It would be easy enough to meet the remaining 15% from crops on the rest of the farmland, or by expanding wheat and potato production a little.

[papasmurf]

The only upside it seems is people will "feel" they are more autonomous and in control.

A Tory government with no control on it is frankly scary.

[GerryT]

I see it as beneficial because as I have said we have a  basis of common law to work from unlike the EU which makes it up as it goes along and has to have courts  to arbitrate . We all know where we stand from day one , its one of the reasons the City of London is a popular base for foreign business , they know they are not going to be had over .
USA has free trade agreements with nations across the globe with many in the pipeline UK post brexit being one .

My God I think every point you made is backward, every single one.
First UK doesn't have written prescribed law, it's based on precedence and is constantly evolving and changing. Where as EU law is based on rules and is explicitly written out. SO the UK make it up as it goes along and the EU has written rules/laws. You don't even have a written constitution in the UK.
The city of London is popular beacuse it has access to the vast EU market, that's soon to change and so will the relevance of London over time. Johnson isn't helping as he's a total clown, the way the UK is seen on the global stage is very much diminished with how brexit has been progressing. This take back control mantra is worrying for London investors as the clown can so very easily change the laws/rules and affect their business.
I'm sure the USA are frothing at the mouth to get their claws into the UK in a trade deal. What makes you think Trump or his successor will do the UK any favours, you need to do the ABC of trade deals to understand, but your not interested.

I dont see any problem with Canada and trade seeing as the Queen owns most of it 

More slippery talk, basically the queen own's nothing in Canada, as queen of Canada (separate to queen of England) she holds title but can't sell anything for her own gain. The land belongs to the people of Canada. Another way of looking at it is the Queen of Canada owns England.

You maybe missed the smiley face with regard to the country of my birth ?

You are misreading what I wrote , I have never said the UK has a written law I said the Anglosphere has a basis of common law (unlike the civil /Napoleonic courts of Europe ) or a strong commitment to the rule of law if you prefer .

I think all EU countries have a strong commitment to the rule of law, none are perfect and I don't think the UK or USA would be any better.

Simply put brexit is introducing barriers, raising risk and effectively shrinking the effective size of the UK market. These barriers to trade will not help, they will impede business.
The only upside it seems is people will "feel" they are more autonomous and in control.

[papasmurf]

Feck me papa give him a chance . Since Boris has been in charge

Would you care to let me know when that happens please. Dominic Cummings seems to be running the show, and that really is a worry.

[Streetwalker]

Yep , all about 'taking back control ', I think Boris said in once 

Taking by control by the Tories so they can screw us even more than they are now.

Feck me papa give him a chance . Since Boris has been in charge he has had the Brexit to sort out ,he caught the corona and has found out he is very limited in who he can give ministerial positions to . His Mrs has had a baby and hes had to go on holiday , glamping apparently ,must have been a nightmare .

Screwing the great unwashed will have to wait .

By the way I havent thanked Rishi for the covid payment just over 10K in all, makes you proud to be British the way we look after each other 

[papasmurf]

Yep , all about 'taking back control ', I think Boris said in once 

Taking by control by the Tories so they can screw us even more than they are now.

[Streetwalker]

Well there you go . As Papa has 'liked' this post I assume he has read it and he now aware  of the difference between the Empire and the British Commonwealth

Exactly correct. Funny how much of streetwalkers posts are about the great empire seen through rose tinted glasses and a longing to break free from the evil EU grip and get back to the good old days.

Yep , all about 'taking back control ', I think Boris said in once