General Brexit discussion thread

[patman post]

Spain apparently has 2,600,000 civil servants, so what?

Has any Brexiteer here quibbled about the size of Spain's Civil Service, or used the info as a criticism of the profligacy EU...?

[Barry]

Spain apparently has 2,600,000 civil servants, so what?

[patman post]

Read it all and weep:-

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/summary-costing-brexit

Interesting to note that document mentions Civil Servants — one of the criticisms of the EU is the number of Civil Servants it employs. The last count I can find is 32,000.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/about-european-commission/organisational-structure/commission-staff_en

The latest published statistics are for the UK is March 2019, when Civil Service headcount was 445,480. On a full-time equivalent basis (FTE) employment is 413,910.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › attachment_data › file Civil Service Statistics - Gov.uk

In January this year, there were 25,000 civil servants working on Brexit – a three-fold increase since 2018 and more than the number employed by the nine smallest Whitehall departments combined...
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/whitehall-monitor-2020/civil-service

[Jaydee]

Made up figure and totally unfounded. You can't possibly know that.

Well I have a better idea.  You post the real figures.  And oh.  They are not my figures. Which means if you are saying the figures  are wrong. You must know the correct  ones.  i am all ears.  Correct them

[papasmurf]

Made up figure and totally unfounded. You can't possibly know that.

Read it all and weep:-

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/summary-costing-brexit

[Nick]

Brexit is set to have cost the UK more than £200 billion in lost economic growth by the end of this year

Made up figure and totally unfounded. You can't possibly know that.

[Nick]

It's a conspiracy now Cor Blimey!

No conspiracy Gerry, it's called footprints in the sand!!

[Jaydee]

The economy boomed after we voted to leave the EU.
Contrary to the predictions of Europhiles who had instead predicted it's crash.

Do you see the picture here.
Europhiles have now predicted the economy will crash at the end of transition.
It won't.

Well let me put it this way.  Since 2010 the national debt has more than doubled.  It has gone from £1.1 trillion to £2.4 trillion.  Yes that really is £2,450,000,000,000 and rising at over £5,000 per second   That is £37,000 for every man woman and child in the country or £67,000 for every UK tax payer. Or in the 10 minutes it has taken me to answer.  The debt has risen by £3 million.   But it is really in the manure heap when other factors kick in.  Factoring in all liabilities including state and public sector pensions, the real national debt is closer to £4.8 trillion, some £78,000 for every person in the UK. And on top of that the local authority debt is spiralling out of control.  The English local authority debt alone  is well over £300 Billion.  That is more than the gold reserves held by the bank of England which is a misnomer.

As you point out Quantitive Easing has also kicked in.  That is  now around the £450 billion mark.  That will have to be paid back by your grand kids grand kids.  If ever.  Not to mention.  This is tghe legacy thios bunch of half wits in Downing street are leaving.  Big Kranky Bojo, the Downing Street muppet and his dickheads have cost the UK tax payer, more than the UK has paid into the EU.   Brexit is set to have cost the UK more than £200 billion in lost economic growth by the end of this year. This is a figure that almost eclipses the total amount the UK has paid into the EU budget over the past 47 years (£215 billion) since joining in 1973. On top of that since the vote.  The British economy is now 3% smaller than it could have been EU membership had been maintained. That in just over 2 years.

On top of that the UK has the 2nd largest external debt in the world at just over £9 trillion.  Surpassed only by the USofA.  On top of that.  England is set to endure a energy crises.  Coming up at your house.  Some 8 nuclear power station will have to be closed.  And 9 new ones at tax payers expense  will have to be built.  That is estimated at around £450 billion.  You can then add on the cost of decommission on top of that. When the first one comes on line, way over budget and owned by the French at Hinkley point.  The cost of electricity will double. And Brexit and the pandemic is not even been taken into account. I really am not sure were you get your economics from.  But if I were you I would write to the Financial Times and Bloomberg Economics and tell them by your calculations  the UK economics are booming.   And all the above is fake news..  But heh.  Why let facts get in the road.  Now why does the Emperors Clothes come to mind

[Baff]

Baff, nobody want's to rule the UK, that's just tactics from Cummings the mastermind behind brexit that tugs on the emotional strings of people like you. Secondly the UK economy has taken a big hit since 2016 and I'm not counting c19. Early this yr the hit due to brexit was put at 130b and looking like 200b by the end of this yr. C19 will make it very hard to separate out what impact brexit alone is having.
You say the UK economy is booming, your making that crap up.
You've also said that a fall in sterling was great. That's like saying Einstein was shit at maths. Her's the ABC of a devaluation in currency. You buy widgets for 100k, assemble them and sell them for 200k. Your widgets come from outside the UK. You sell your widgets outside the UK.
Now in this example your cost price just went from 100k to 130k, your selling now at 260k to keep your profit margin % (that's another lesson for you, another day). But people don't want to pay 260k, also your workers can't buy product/holidays from outside the UK and want a pay rise. You see where this is going.
The answer is to make the widgets in the UK, how practice is that, why hasn't that happened to date, even if all raw materials for all UK manufacturing was done in the UK that doesn't change the fact the UK only produces about 50% of its daily food requirement so imports (costing more) are required.
You have no clue what you are talking about regarding economics, there is no alternate world where a devaluing pound is a good thing.

The fall in Sterling is great for some and bad for others.
It's good for exporters and bad for importers.

As a country with a trade deficit, this works for us in aggregate right now.
At other times we will want a rise in the value of Sterling.

It has been active government policy for all governments here for the last 20 years to reduce the value of Sterling. But this is competative. As we printed more money, so did the other guys.
The referendum achieved what they had consistently failed to.

For company's that are heavily dependent on foreign components for their production, the benefits of this will be small. I agree.
(For them it is the reduced cost of domestic labour and premises only, that makes them more competative).

However, for investors.... that provides more opportunity.
As they can buy cheaper production of these same components in the UK now.
Which is good for the UK economy. More jobs.

Bringing businesses back mate.
Trump style.
Because it works.
And because all your ideas ever brought our economy was outsourcing our industries.
Not uncoindicidently, to your country. Which is why you are such a big fan of us pursuing these policies that directly benefit you at our own expense.





The economy is not booming. It's in lock down.

The economy boomed after we refused to join the Euro.
Contrary to the predictions of Europhiles who had instead predicted it's crash.

The economy boomed after we voted to leave the EU.
Contrary to the predictions of Europhiles who had instead predicted it's crash.

Do you see the picture here.
Europhiles have now predicted the economy will crash at the end of transition.
It won't.

[GerryT]

It's a conspiracy now Cor Blimey!

[Nick]

As well as not being Canadian it is clear you don't understand the economics of trading with a poorer nation.

I've already said that I'm a Plastic Paddy, Nick. When I finally get my Irish passport  I intend to sleep with it under my pillow. God, I love this place!

Nobody is disputing where you are, it's the fact you're making out that your Canadian student when you're not is the point in question. The mods and admin on here tend to look suspiciously on someone who hides behind a false persona.

[Sheepy]

Yes but those Aristocratic bankers with time will be Irish. So will that be Paddy Mogg or is it Jacob-Rees O'Sullivan.

All good then, except, by now the rest of the world have worked out they are barking mad and hungry for more, always.
Keeping them out of the bottom of the river has become a full time job. You are more than welcome too it.

[GerryT]

So you keep telling us.
But after a life time of it, you have still failed to be anything except 100% wrong at all times with your predictions.

So when you make them, we all bet on the opposite result occuring.
And then win.


This is the problem for you.
The people with the very worst track record of us all at economics and business are all saying the same things you do.
And we have all seen them to be consistently wrong.

Some of these people are even quite successful. So those people place a higher value on their politics than they do on our economics.
And some of them will be vested interests.

For EU voters.
It should not be lost on you that people will say anything to gain control.
And that those who have lost control want nothing more in life than to get it back.
To do so they are going to spend the rest of their lives explaining to you how wrong you were and how they know best.
"You'll be sorry you didn't listen to me".

Their problem is that they don't know best.
Or they wouldn't have lost control in the first place.

Essentially it's trauma.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
An attempt by people to relive their lost battles, to replay it in their minds over and over and over until they can find a way of doing it in the future that results in their winning.

There isn't one.
You will never rule here.

Baff, nobody want's to rule the UK, that's just tactics from Cummings the mastermind behind brexit that tugs on the emotional strings of people like you. Secondly the UK economy has taken a big hit since 2016 and I'm not counting c19. Early this yr the hit due to brexit was put at 130b and looking like 200b by the end of this yr. C19 will make it very hard to separate out what impact brexit alone is having.
You say the UK economy is booming, your making that crap up.
You've also said that a fall in sterling was great. That's like saying Einstein was shit at maths. Her's the ABC of a devaluation in currency. You buy widgets for 100k, assemble them and sell them for 200k. Your widgets come from outside the UK. You sell your widgets outside the UK.
Now in this example your cost price just went from 100k to 130k, your selling now at 260k to keep your profit margin % (that's another lesson for you, another day). But people don't want to pay 260k, also your workers can't buy product/holidays from outside the UK and want a pay rise. You see where this is going.
The answer is to make the widgets in the UK, how practice is that, why hasn't that happened to date, even if all raw materials for all UK manufacturing was done in the UK that doesn't change the fact the UK only produces about 50% of its daily food requirement so imports (costing more) are required.
You have no clue what you are talking about regarding economics, there is no alternate world where a devaluing pound is a good thing.

[Cor Blimey!]

As well as not being Canadian it is clear you don't understand the economics of trading with a poorer nation.

I've already said that I'm a Plastic Paddy, Nick. When I finally get my Irish passport  I intend to sleep with it under my pillow. God, I love this place!

[Baff]

It isn't my imagination, it is reality from those who will be at the sharp end of the disaster.
If you don't take some mitigating action to protect yourself you personally could end up in some deep personal poo.

So you keep telling us.
But after a life time of it, you have still failed to be anything except 100% wrong at all times with your predictions.

So when you make them, we all bet on the opposite result occuring.
And then win.


This is the problem for you.
The people with the very worst track record of us all at economics and business are all saying the same things you do.
And we have all seen them to be consistently wrong.

Some of these people are even quite successful. So those people place a higher value on their politics than they do on our economics.
And some of them will be vested interests.

For EU voters.
It should not be lost on you that people will say anything to gain control.
And that those who have lost control want nothing more in life than to get it back.
To do so they are going to spend the rest of their lives explaining to you how wrong you were and how they know best.
"You'll be sorry you didn't listen to me".

Their problem is that they don't know best.
Or they wouldn't have lost control in the first place.

Essentially it's trauma.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
An attempt by people to relive their lost battles, to replay it in their minds over and over and over until they can find a way of doing it in the future that results in their winning.

There isn't one.
You will never rule here.