General Brexit discussion thread

[Borchester]

The SUN reports:

Boris is on the ropes over this flu business so he will probably try to rally support by taking an extra hard line with the EU.

Every cloud etc 

[Barry]

On the amusing side of it all, Boris the man who said, the EU are like a taxi driver driving you around and around while running up the fair on the road to nowhere, will be told talks about nothing much, will go past the no deal deadline, well I never.

The SUN reports:

BORIS Johnson has given the EU 24 hours to back down on fishing demands or the UK will walk away with no deal.

Following discussions with EU Council President, Charles Michel and Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen last night, the PM agreed to extend his trade talks deadline by another day in the hope France and Spain give up on their demands to maintain fishing rights in British waters.

Although there has been significant progress towards a trade deal made over the past week, fishing rights remains the key sticking point.

EU officials have insisted they will not agree a deal at any price, with France and Spain joining forces this week to insist they will veto any agreement unless there is absolutely no change in their rights to fish in British waters.

[Baff]

Be honest with yourself, is what you like about the EU the economics?
Is that what the big attraction for you is?

Now that you have been honest with yourself.
Start being honest with us.

Trying to justify your politics by telling us how rich it is making us doesn't cut it.
We are not so stupid and not so suddenly rich.

So we know Jaydee's only interest in th EU is as a wedge issue to beat "England" with.
His goal is Scottish independence and he see's discontent with the Brexit as a medium towards that end. He is here to stoke that discontent as best he can.

Other friends want world government and see the EU as a step in that direction.

Othe friends still, don't like the political system in the UK and see the EU as the only viable way of replacing it.

Other friends still don't like the Tory's but can't democratically overrule them. They see the EU as a limit and a counter to Tory power. How to get unpopular green policies passed in a country that won't vote for them, for example.

Then we have the grievance bunch. Those who hate the "anglo hegemenony". America. The British Empire. And see the EU as a means of containing us. Punishing us even.

Who actually likes the EU because they want to see multinationals make more money at the expense of small businesses?
Who actually likes the EU because they believe an extra layer of managment abd bureaucracy will make governance cheaper?

Answer?  No one.
No one at all.

Justification of the EU on economic grounds is disingenuous.
You are just lying to us.


And that is what they went on in the referendum campaign.
A giant unprovable and unconvincing lie. And they wonder why they lost.

[GerryT]

Jeez, I'm running out of crayons trying to explain things to you.
?? means show me where I am mixing GDP and %GDP.

You were asked about a UK financial success story, you went down this GDP or GDP ratio rabbit hole, obviously to deflect from the fact that there are no UK financial success stories post brexit.
Unless you want to spin the 50,000 additional jobs for customs officials and regulatory bodies, or the added jobs to man your new internal borders in Kent and at your ports going to NI.

[Nick]

Exactly. Not one correction

Jeez, I'm running out of crayons trying to explain things to you.
?? means show me where I am mixing GDP and %GDP.

[Jaydee]

In that case Afghanistan (8.3% ) is the world's economic powerhouse and the Belgians (104%) are walking around with their arses out of their trousers.

Yes indeed.  I am trying to figure it out my self. 

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2013/04/20/the-90-question

[Jaydee]

??

Exactly. Not one correction

[Nick]

One second you are on about GDP and the next debt to GDP. 

??

[Borchester]

. 

The debt-to-GDP ratio is the metric ..............  When it reaches 90%.  It is thought the economy would be irrecoverable.

In that case Afghanistan (8.3% ) is the world's economic powerhouse and the Belgians (104%) are walking around with their arses out of their trousers. 

[Jaydee]

Do you mean the bit between 2008 and 2010 where the % debt to GDP grew by 35% in 3 years?  Under a labour government. It took 9 years to grow by 20% under the Tories, and was coming back down for 2 years up until COVID popped up.

As for your last comment, yes. That's why it's call % GDP.

Tell me something do you actually understand what you talk about.  One second you are on about GDP and the next debt to GDP.  And suddenly your Emperor's  clothes magic figures are correct.  Having spent days saying everybody else's figures were wrong.  .  Let me give you the figures.  It takes 3 years for any figures, particularly budget figures  given in a year to feed into the economy. In others words.  The 2017 budget is now feeding though.   In 2010 when the Tory's took over the debt to GDP was  74.6%.  In 2012 it was 83.2% in 2015 it was 86.9 it was 85.9% in 2918.  It is now over 100% of GDP.  So can you tell me where it is coming down and coming down from what.  The second time I have asked you.  Or are those figure wrong as well.  If so correct them.   It is simple as that.

In the same period of time. When this bunch of tosspots took power the National debt was £1.1 trillion..  It is now over double that.  It stands at £2.4 trillion.  Yes that really is £2,450,000,000,000 and rising at over £5,000 per second. That is £39,000 for every man woman and child in the UK. Or £67,000 per tax payer.  The English local authorities have a debt of £300 billion.  That is more than the gold reserves held on its own by the BofE. Who could not even cover the local authority debt.  Or is that wrong as well.  Correct it.  Simple as.

In the same period of time there has been a quantitave easing  project by the BofE.  Which is a misnomer. And I presume you know what that means.  To stimulate the economy.  That will have to be paid back by your grandkids grandkids.   This is the legacy pre corona virus Big Kranky Bojo, the Downing Street muppet is leaving your grandkids.   On top of that.  The UK has the 2nd largest external debt in the world at some £9 trillion.  On top of that.  England is about to face a energy crises.  Some 8 nuclear power stations will have to be closed down and 9 new ones built.  At a cost of £50 billion a pop.  At tax payers expense.  Then add on the cost of decommissioning.  I will leave that to you.  When the first one comes on line at Hinkley Point.  And now way over budget.  It is owned by the French and the cost of electricity will double.

On top of that.  The UK is between the 28th and 32nd richest country in the world.  Depending on what version of GDP is used. That is third world economy.  Or are you one of those who confuse the word RICHEST with the word LARGEST  As the muppets in government continually spout.  And there are those who actually believe the UK is the 5th or 6th richest country in the world.  Now if that is wrong.  Correct it. I will on this one.  Give the muppets their due.  When they took office the PSBR was in the region of £180 billion.  Pre corona it stood at £60 billion.  But at a t cost of making the UK the worst poverty stricken country in Europe.  The growth is in food banks.  The Social welfare bill for London alone was more  than the defence budget.  The link is 7 years old. I  cannot be bothered researching the exact bill now, for you to dismiss with the wave of a hand.  I checked a year ago   It stood  at over £50 billion.  If that is wrong.  You  correct it. 

And last but not least..  The debt-to-GDP ratio is the metric comparing a country's public debt to its gross domestic product (GDP). By comparing what a country owes with what it produces, the debt-to-GDP ratio reliably indicates that particular country's ability to pay back its debts. Often expressed as a percentage, this ratio can also be interpreted as the number of years needed to pay back debt, if GDP is dedicated entirely to debt repayment.  That is why it is called percentage. And in that context.  When it reaches 90%.  It is thought the economy would be irrecoverable.  The Uk was on track by the end of the Transition period. And who exactly do you think you are trying to kid.

[Baff]

I don't see what's in it for him to continue them.
Another 2 weeks doesn't change anything.
They already know what the sticking points are and have done for months.

All it does is make him look weak.

[Sheepy]

On the amusing side of it all, Boris the man who said, the EU are like a taxi driver driving you around and around while running up the fair on the road to nowhere, will be told talks about nothing much, will go past the no deal deadline, well I never.

[Sheepy]

I'm not so sure, you left IRL as you couldn't stomach the fight and we did pretty well, you were thrown out of USA and their doing fine. I could keep going.

You need to look closer at home, get people to want brexit there would be a start. Polls now suggest over 57% want to remain in the EU and just 35% want brexit.  There's not many people looking at the UK and thinking, that's the way to do things. The bumbling Johnson is making a dogs dinner of a bad idea. In fact support for the EU is rising across Europe, Thanks UK, your helping to unite the block,
https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-poll-most-british-people-want-to-rejoin-eu-2020-6?r=US&IR=T

Still no examples ?  you know a Brexit financial success story, I'm bored with the bad stories, cheer me up.

LOL that old chestnut, the old ones are the best ones,

[Cor Blimey!]

Cor Blimey and Gerry - I believe that they are still looking for a replacement duo to replace The Two Ronnies Shows. You are both such a laugh a minute and never seem to run out of really funny material. Perhaps you should audition. 

And give you your 'first giggle of the day' every day? Not a chance!

[T00ts]

Cor Blimey and Gerry - I believe that they are still looking for a replacement duo to replace The Two Ronnies Shows. You are both such a laugh a minute and never seem to run out of really funny material. Perhaps you should audition.