General Brexit discussion thread

[Sheepy]

Having failed miserably to answer the question I asked. Let me make it more clear to you.  The trade gap is caused because 80% of the UK economy is servicing and banking and not considered trade. And that is only as good as the next crash.  You are still paying for the last and and will do so till you and your grandkids grandkids  die.  That is why the likes of Germany do 4 times more trade with the likes of China.  And if the UK losses its passporting right.  You tell me how much of the economy will disappear. In terms of trade.  Let me give you figures from 2016 at the time of the referendum. In 2016, the UK exported £548 billion of goods and services and imported £591 billion, resulting in a trade deficit of £43 billion.  So where you get the 100s of billions is beyond me.  I suggest you read the link

https://www.bba.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/webversion-BQB-3-1.pdf

Yes I know you swerved it in the first place, funny that.

[Jaydee]

Alright I will try again with the trade gap between the UK and the EU, which has always been, plus the membership fee, how much will the cost be in ten years, while your figures say that the last 5 years have cost more than all EU membership fees they don't seem to take in consideration of the trade gap, which is in 100's of billions. That is the problem of course when relying on others doing the working out for you. They tend to miss out the things they don't want you knowing.

Having failed miserably to answer the question I asked. Let me make it more clear to you.  The trade gap is caused because 80% of the UK economy is servicing and banking and not considered trade. And that is only as good as the next crash.  You are still paying for the last and and will do so till you and your grandkids grandkids  die.  That is why the likes of Germany do 4 times more trade with the likes of China.  And if the UK losses its passporting right.  You tell me how much of the economy will disappear. In terms of trade.  Let me give you figures from 2016 at the time of the referendum. In 2016, the UK exported £548 billion of goods and services and imported £591 billion, resulting in a trade deficit of £43 billion.  So where you get the 100s of billions is beyond me.  I suggest you read the link

https://www.bba.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/webversion-BQB-3-1.pdf

[Sheepy]

Well let me put it like this.  In November 2017 the UK did £12 billion worth of trade with the EU.  That raised around £4 billion in tax and employed thousands.  And in 2018 the UK was a net contributor of £8.9 billion.  I will leave you to do the maths.  On top of that.  Since then the UK economy has shrunk by 3% and has cost the UK tax payer more in 3 years more   the entire contribution since it joined the then Common Market.  Now I have a better idea.  You tell me how richer you are going to be in 10 years?.  I even put in a question mark for the benefit of Nick. He has problem's in understanding questions.  Or correct what I have just said.  Oh jings another question not going to be answered.

Alright I will try again with the trade gap between the UK and the EU, which has always been, plus the membership fee, how much will the cost be in ten years, while your figures say that the last 5 years have cost more than all EU membership fees they don't seem to take in consideration of the trade gap, which is in 100's of billions. That is the problem of course when relying on others doing the working out for you. They tend to miss out the things they don't want you knowing.

[Jaydee]

I understand it perfectly, the problem is you're not very bright and clearly don't bother to read people's responses. Shame really as it's a fundamental part of a forum: Read what some one wrote and then respond, not just carry on posting utter diatripe.

See the example below where I responded to your question the first time you asked. But you just keep on posting utter tosh and don't bother to read the responses.

The evidence is straight in front of your eyes and your response is pathetic.  Let me repeat you answered nothing.  You do not have a clue.  And your statement.   Which you seem to think is a answer is 100% wrong.  And a rant.  But heh why let facts get in the road. God talk about the Emperors clothes. You are now even saying the government you root for has got it wrong.  geez.  You could not make it up.  Allow me to repeat.

From your own Government.  The very ones that just voted to let kids starve in England. And voted against pay rise for nurses.

While the UK's status as a member of the WTO is beyond doubt, there remains to be settled, as Mr Azevêdo indicated, the terms of the UK's membership. This relates to the establishment of the UK's own schedules of concessions and commitments. This is a necessary and inevitable technical aspect of Brexit, which is concomitant upon the UK ceasing to be a member of the EU, irrespective of the terms on which UK-EU trade ends up being conducted after Brexit.15 The accomplishment of this task falls within DIT's remit and in December 2016 the Secretary of State for International Trade, Rt Hon Dr Liam Fox MP, informed the House that it was initiating the process for doing so: ....   

That application failed miserably.  Even Fox admitted it is limbo for years.  Do read the links.  They are facts.  Not fanny. One of the countries who objected was the USofA.  The one Big Kranky Bojo the Downing Street muppet was going to do wonderful deals with. But heh.  Why let facts get in the road.

  LOOK>>>>>> https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmintrade/817/81705.htm <<<<<<<LOOK  Nick says the government is wrong.
  LOOK>>>>>>https://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/brexit-britains-trade-application-that-the-wto-rejected/ ,<<<<<<LOOK Nick says the WTO is wrong
  LOOK>>>>> https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/10/26/the-uk-fails-to-join-the-wto-and-heads-for-limbo/<<<<LOOK Nick says the Prof is wrong

That means the Uk is a founding member of the WTO. .  Nobody is disputing.  What you fail to grasp.  The UK on a crash out.  Cannot use is the EU schedule of concession to trade under WTO rules since 1975. And the UK will have to renegotiate. Why do you think Fox had to apply.  For the hell of it.  Get real.  You just do not have a clue.   But I have a better idea.  You tell me what all those links are saying.  And how everybody but you is wrong.  Now I am sure you will find a comma out of place to go of on another tangent.

[Nick]

So let me ask you again.  How is the UK going to trade with 164 countries of the WTO with no Schedule of concession?  Which part of that do you not understand.  I even put a question mark.

I understand it perfectly, the problem is you're not very bright and clearly don't bother to read people's responses. Shame really as it's a fundamental part of a forum: Read what some one wrote and then respond, not just carry on posting utter diatripe.

See the example below where I responded to your question the first time you asked. But you just keep on posting utter tosh and don't bother to read the responses.

Your links not mine. Both the links openings are wrong, the UK is not an EU member state.

Third paragraph of your link: Certification Not Required to Give Effect to the UK's Goods Schedules

Good work Jimmy, you managed to disprove your own argument. Thanks.

Thanks for highlighting the membership part Jimmy, saved me the job.

First paragraph: The United Kingdom has been a member of the WTO since 1995 and a member of GATT since 1948

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/countries_e/united_kingdom_e.htm

Give it up!'

[Jaydee]

Is that so, how about if we stayed another ten years what would the costs be then?

Well let me put it like this.  In November 2017 the UK did £12 billion worth of trade with the EU.  That raised around £4 billion in tax and employed thousands.  And in 2018 the UK was a net contributor of £8.9 billion.  I will leave you to do the maths.  On top of that.  Since then the UK economy has shrunk by 3% and has cost the UK tax payer more in 3 years more   the entire contribution since it joined the then Common Market.  Now I have a better idea.  You tell me how richer you are going to be in 10 years?.  I even put in a question mark for the benefit of Nick. He has problem's in understanding questions.  Or correct what I have just said.  Oh jings another question not going to be answered. 

[Jaydee]

Answering questions is easy, deciphering when you've actually asked one is the problem.

Nah matey.  That is the standard reply of the statement maker.  And you have a 100% record of failure. .  You have answered nothing.  Lets cut to the chase. You did not have one scoobie about the schedule of concession.  Or the application failure by Liam Fox..  Or what it meant. You made that very clear.  As you tried to divert knowing you were making a fool of yourself.  Or the problem as explained by Andrew Neil on a crash out on the link I gave.  .  Or is he wrong as well and you do not understand him.   Then waffled ducked dived and weaved around every question you were asked.  Any port in a storm in a clear attempt  to divert from answering.  . Who do you think you were trying to kid.

So let me ask you again.  How is the UK going to trade with 164 countries of the WTO with no Schedule of concession?  Which part of that do you not understand.  I even put a question mark.  As it seems to affect you. Then going back to Andrew Neil. If the UK does a free trade deal with the EU.  Which is unlikely on a crash out. Then the UK has to do a free trade deal  with all the countries in the WTO.  And they do not have to reciprocate.  They can bang on any tariff they like on UK goods. They will already have a free trade deal with the UK.  What part of that did you not understand from Andrew Neil. Having problems in answering the two questions.  Now let me see.  Yes.  And before you scream the UK is a full and founding member.  It is not.  It is a founding member.  And since 1975 the Schedule has been held by the UK for its members.  On 1st January at the termination of transition. The UK will no longer be a member.  And the UK will have to renegotiate with every country.  As the Director General of the WTO stated.  That will take years.  And heh. He should know. Which part do you not understand.

From your own Government.  The very ones that just voted to let kids starve in England. And voted against pay rise for nurses. 

While the UK's status as a member of the WTO is beyond doubt, there remains to be settled, as Mr Azevêdo indicated, the terms of the UK's membership. This relates to the establishment of the UK's own schedules of concessions and commitments. This is a necessary and inevitable technical aspect of Brexit, which is concomitant upon the UK ceasing to be a member of the EU, irrespective of the terms on which UK-EU trade ends up being conducted after Brexit.15 The accomplishment of this task falls within DIT's remit and in December 2016 the Secretary of State for International Trade, Rt Hon Dr Liam Fox MP, informed the House that it was initiating the process for doing so: ....   That application failed miserably.  Even Fox admitted it is limbo for years.  Do read the links.  They are facts.  Not fanny. One of the countries who objected was the USofA.  The one Big Kranky Bojo the Downing Street muppet was going to do wonderful deals with. But heh.  Why let facts get in the road.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmintrade/817/81705.htm
https://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/brexit-britains-trade-application-that-the-wto-rejected/
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/10/26/the-uk-fails-to-join-the-wto-and-heads-for-limbo/

[Nick]

Who cannot even answer the most simple of questions.   Like you.   They are all statement makers. Spouting meaningless soundbites as answers.  To every question asked.  All to a man.   In denial.

Answering questions is easy, deciphering when you've actually asked one is the problem.

[Sheepy]

By the end of this year.  The cost of brexit from big kranky Bojo, the Downing street muppet,. Will have cost more than the entire UK contribution since it joined the Common market.  The Pantomime toff JRM who has moved his asset to Ireland.  And the part time MP clown  John Redwood has instructed all his clients to move there money from Sterling to the EU.  Must tell you something.  Nah.  On a crash out I have explained the UK has no schedule of concession and will therefore  have  to renegotiate all deals the EU has done for the past 40 odd years.  The United States was one of those countries who rejected Liam Fox and his application.   And those countries will  be looking after their own interests.  The county of Kent is building a massive lorry park for one reason.  And on a crash out the cost of goods from the UK going to the EU will be on average some 20% to 40% higher.  And all 164 countries in the WTO.  Have to abide by WTO rules.    What you think and what fanny you believe being spouted by big kranky Bojo and his bus.   Is irrelevant. The facts have been explained to you a dozen times.  And I am not seeking any goal. I deal in facts.  Not fanny.  I voted leave.  But for a very different reason than the hatred of Johnny foreigner.  So what part of what is in your face on this post. Will not make England poorer. It already has.   Even the government  is saying this.   And yes you do view this country in terms of England only.  You have made that very clear.   

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-analysis-shows-brexit-deal-will-make-uk-poorer-2019-10?r=US&IR=T
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46366162

Is that so, how about if we stayed another ten years what would the costs be then?

[Jaydee]

Simply, I don't agree that Brexit makes us poorer.
I expect the opposite result.
And I beleive with the benefit of hindsight we can see that since the referendum the economy has been doing very well. Better than I expected. Way better.

Nor do I view this country in terms of England only.

Nor do I recognise you as someone with this countries best interest at heart.
You seem hell bent on it's destruction. And I would be a fool not recognise that this is the goal you seek to angle me towards.

By the end of this year.  The cost of brexit from big kranky Bojo, the Downing street muppet,. Will have cost more than the entire UK contribution since it joined the Common market.  The Pantomime toff JRM who has moved his asset to Ireland.  And the part time MP clown  John Redwood has instructed all his clients to move there money from Sterling to the EU.  Must tell you something.  Nah.  On a crash out I have explained the UK has no schedule of concession and will therefore  have  to renegotiate all deals the EU has done for the past 40 odd years.  The United States was one of those countries who rejected Liam Fox and his application.   And those countries will  be looking after their own interests.  The county of Kent is building a massive lorry park for one reason.  And on a crash out the cost of goods from the UK going to the EU will be on average some 20% to 40% higher.  And all 164 countries in the WTO.  Have to abide by WTO rules.    What you think and what fanny you believe being spouted by big kranky Bojo and his bus.   Is irrelevant. The facts have been explained to you a dozen times.  And I am not seeking any goal. I deal in facts.  Not fanny.  I voted leave.  But for a very different reason than the hatred of Johnny foreigner.  So what part of what is in your face on this post. Will not make England poorer. It already has.   Even the government  is saying this.   And yes you do view this country in terms of England only.  You have made that very clear.   

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-analysis-shows-brexit-deal-will-make-uk-poorer-2019-10?r=US&IR=T
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46366162

[Jaydee]

This is a Brexit thread so clearly WE means those who support Brexit.

Who cannot even answer the most simple of questions.   Like you.   They are all statement makers. Spouting meaningless soundbites as answers.  To every question asked.  All to a man.   In denial.

[Baff]

It's been shown the UK economy slowed after the referendum and a study estimated at the time of the report that loss to be £130b and heading toward £200b by the yr end.  What do you have to show the economy booming, you quoted a increase in FDI when the fact is FDI is shrinking. You also think the fall in sterling's value as a good thing but history and economics show that to be the total opposite.

You believe in the UK, not just England and see Brexit as the democratic right of a country to "take back control", but you don't think that should be allowed for Scotland or NI.

You don't think brexit will make you poorer, yet you ignore the 50,000 customs officials, the price increases via Tariffs, the lost business because of lack of access to the EU for your manufacturing sector which has said it will leave if a FTA isn't in place.

Rather than you just "feeling" or "thinking" things will be better, can you lay out some specifics that backs up your opinion or are we to just take your opinion that brexit won't make you poorer, as just that, just an idea you have.

It's been shown that the economy boomed after the referendum.


Tariffs don't bother me at all.
Average EU tariff rate is 3% and only applies to goods.
Using 2019 export figures, that works out as a total rise in retail price for UK's exports of.....
£5.1 billion

Which is about 2/3 of the net contributions we will be saving from not paying an EU membership fee.
We could just subsidise exports to the tune of EU tariffs and still be 4 billion better off as a nation.

Then we have the 25% fall in the value of the Pound.
Creating a lure in investment.
Tariff barriers and currency barriers creating a barrier to imports.
An ideologically tax cutting, business friendly parliament.

A perfect storm for UK manufacturing to thrive in.

Don't even start me off on the price of one bureaucracy vs the price of two bureaucracies.

You believe in the UK, not just England and see Brexit as the democratic right of a country to "take back control", but you don't think that should be allowed for Scotland or NI.

I don't?
News to me.

I have always been supportive of their referendums.
And unlike you, I am also supportive of the results of referendums.

[Thomas]

I have yet to find any analysis of Brexit that will make people better off, and a no deal Brexit is frankly a terrifying prospect.

no one cares.

Most folk are reading gerry et al contribution to this thread, not the witterings of the 70 year old cornish crank.

Just to remind the forum , pappysmurf supported many aspects of brexit until he realised a bad brexit would damage the tories , then he changed tune.

You have the least respected opinion in this forum , mr immigrant hater . ( despite yoursell being an immigrant to cornwall)

[papasmurf]

Rather than you just "feeling" or "thinking" things will be better, can you lay out some specifics that backs up your opinion or are we to just take your opinion that brexit won't make you poorer, as just that, just an idea you have.

I have yet to find any analysis of Brexit that will make people better off, and a no deal Brexit is frankly a terrifying prospect.

[GerryT]

@Jaydee

Simply, I don't agree that Brexit makes us poorer.
I expect the opposite result.
And I beleive with the benefit of hindsight we can see that since the referendum the economy has been doing very well. Better than I expected. Way better.

Nor do I view this country in terms of England only.

Nor do I recognise you as someone with this countries best interest at heart.
You seem hell bent on it's destruction. And I would be a fool not recognise that this is the goal you seek to angle me towards.

It's been shown the UK economy slowed after the referendum and a study estimated at the time of the report that loss to be £130b and heading toward £200b by the yr end.  What do you have to show the economy booming, you quoted a increase in FDI when the fact is FDI is shrinking. You also think the fall in sterling's value as a good thing but history and economics show that to be the total opposite.

You believe in the UK, not just England and see Brexit as the democratic right of a country to "take back control", but you don't think that should be allowed for Scotland or NI.

You don't think brexit will make you poorer, yet you ignore the 50,000 customs officials, the price increases via Tariffs, the lost business because of lack of access to the EU for your manufacturing sector which has said it will leave if a FTA isn't in place.

Rather than you just "feeling" or "thinking" things will be better, can you lay out some specifics that backs up your opinion or are we to just take your opinion that brexit won't make you poorer, as just that, just an idea you have.