General Brexit discussion thread

[Baff]

No matey.  What part of the The rest of the world does not have to reciprocate. Do you not understand?  Reciprocate..  respond to (a gesture or action) by making a corresponding one.

Unfortunately, understanding your words is not to be confused with agreeing with them.
We understand your words, but they are still incorrect.

[Baff]

What are you not grasping.  On a crashout the UK will be MFN. Now that the UK has done a free trade deal with Japan.  It will now have to do a free trade with all WTO member and they do not have to reciprocate.  Do you get it yet. The most-favoured nation principle means that countries cannot discriminate between their trading partners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPXm5VtxEOg&ab_channel=TV

No.

WTO rules apply to anyone you don't have a superceding trade deal with.
You may discriminate by partners by making a trade deal with them. As we have done with Japan. The tariff regimes we set with Japan only apply to Japan.
The rest of the world, assuming we have no trade deals with them, all get the same tariff regime we filed with the WTO.

So for example. The EU has a trade deal with Japan but trades with Australia on WTO terms.
It has zero tariffs on loads of goods with Japan. But standard EU external tariffs with Australia.



And yes, James Dellingpole is delightfully thick.
I suggest not listening to him as a golden rule.
His heart is in the right place, but he's not up to much in the brain department.

[Jaydee]

I just sent some money to India, which last time I looked wasn't in the EU. Cost me £3 odd, worth every penny and when we are out I will happily pay it also.

Last time I looked the UK is still in the transition period.  But heh.  Why let facts get in the road.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50838994

[papasmurf]

What are you not grasping.  On a crashout the UK will be MFN. Now that the UK has done a free trade deal with Japan.  It will now have to do a free trade with all WTO member and they do not have to reciprocate.  Do you get it yet. The most-favoured nation principle means that countries cannot discriminate between their trading partners.

James Delingpole is as much use as a chocolate spanner.

[Jaydee]

Great !!!!! The UK will have a FREE TRADE DEAL WITH EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD !!!

Look everyone, Wee Jimmy Crackpot has cracked it over breakfast. We are now going to have ZERO tariffs on everything from everywhere !!!

You really are special on another level.

No matey.  What part of the The rest of the world does not have to reciprocate. Do you not understand?  Reciprocate..  respond to (a gesture or action) by making a corresponding one.

[Jaydee]

Once again Gerry your "Ducks floats, wood floats: Ducks are made of wood" logic is up the junction.

So after Brexit, a U.K. bank won't be able to issue a bond, deal in hedge funds, issue foreign currency or give a loan? Another classic.
I walk into my local bank and tell them I want a loan of £12.50 to buy my dear Irish friend a new calculator and they'll say "Nope, can't do that. Those pesky EU bastards won't let us give you the money, that poor wretch is going to have to use his fingers and toes until we rejoin the almighty EU".

There's more holes in your posts than those horrible round polystyrene wafers sprinkled in bistro.

We now await super Jimmy to come to your rescue and tell us we just don't get it and post the same garbage he has for the last 2 weeks.

There is no need to wait for me.  You have just posted super garbage.  All by yourself.  You need no help for me.  And from that rant.  You clearly have no clue what passporting is.  And it will no longer apply to the UK in the EU as from 1st jan.   And you still do not have one scoobie what you are talking about.

Passporting is a term used in the context of financial services. For members of the EU single market it means that if a firm is authorised to undertake certain activities by the regulator of one EU member state, it can apply for a 'passport' to do business throughout the EU without needing further authorisation.

Now you tell me why the loss of that, while 80% of the UK economy depends on it.   Is so wonderful?.  I even put a question mark.  As it seems to prevent you from answering.  As you go of on another statement. 

[Nick]

What are you not grasping.  On a crashout the UK will be MFN. Now that the UK has done a free trade deal with Japan.  It will now have to do a free trade with all WTO member and they do not have to reciprocate.  Do you get it yet. The most-favoured nation principle means that countries cannot discriminate between their trading partners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPXm5VtxEOg&ab_channel=TV

Great !!!!! The UK will have a FREE TRADE DEAL WITH EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD !!!

Look everyone, Wee Jimmy Crackpot has cracked it over breakfast. We are now going to have ZERO tariffs on everything from everywhere !!!

You really are special on another level.

[Jaydee]

Why do you feel that passporting is an issue?
You have passporting between every other country.

It's the global norm.

The vast bulk of financial transactions operate in this manner.

Oh look. Servicing and banking is 80% of the UK economy.   And it is not trade. I have a better idea. You tell me why you think that 80% of the UK economy is not a issue.  Try losing 80% of your assets.  You are still paying for the hiccup more than 10 years ago.  As will your grand kids grand kids. 

[Jaydee]

16th October Boris tells U.K. to prepare for no deal: EU gets 25 irate calls from member states telling them enough is enough and they better get a deal.
You see Gerry, our deal with Japan which was concluded in record time has shown the EU how much trade with the U.K. means to the big hitters. This has focused the minds of Barnier and his bully boys. You limp wristed liberals can mock it all you want but as none of you can disprove, there is nothing the EU has that we can't buy from within the Commonwealth. And TBH I feel more for these countries and their people than any of the 27 WU members. I don't feel or want to be European but unfortunately tectonics governs my status.

Do you get it yet?

What are you not grasping.  On a crashout the UK will be MFN. Now that the UK has done a free trade deal with Japan.  It will now have to do a free trade with all WTO member and they do not have to reciprocate.  Do you get it yet. The most-favoured nation principle means that countries cannot discriminate between their trading partners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPXm5VtxEOg&ab_channel=TV

[Jaydee]

I try very hard to follow your arguments but I am beginning to think that  it's all irrelevant. Since the majority vote for leave it has all been rather academic. We will leave now that we have the right people in place. I sincerely hope that the government holds it's nerve and from that moment we have a new beginning. We will stand by what we have voted for, even those who currently struggle with the thought of a whole new direction they will be foolish to hanker after their EU blanket.

All your arguments for me are a denial of what the EU really is. For my part I voted leave as much for political reasons as anything else and firmly believe that that is something that is ignored. Freedom as a nation is far more important than anything else. If the EU remained a market then ok but it has changed to a bit of a monster.

I am not arguing about anything.  I am pointing out facts. Fact 1.  On a crash out the UK will have to renegotiate all trade deals the EU has carried out with the WTO on behalf of its members.  And on average some 20% to 4O% will be banged on goods from the UK entering the EU.  Why do you think they are building a world beating lorry park in Kent.  Trump has already put a 212% tariff on UK aircraft parts.  On 1st Jan   the UK will no longer be a member and the EU holds that Schedule of Concession to deal with the WTO.  Two years ago.  Liam Fox applied for that schedule and it failed.    The impact of no deal for the UK would extend beyond its trade with the EU. At the moment Britain trades with the rest of the world as an EU member. Under "no deal", some 40 existing trade agreements fully or partly in place between the EU and dozens of countries would no longer apply to the UK.  Or to put it nice and simple.  England has voted to make itself poorer. 

https://www.euronews.com/2018/12/19/how-would-uk-eu-trade-be-affected-by-a-no-deal-brexit

The majority of those who voted leave. Did not have a scoobie of what they were voting for.  And are in denial.  All saying.  Oh I voted to make myself poorer and to lose my job. Why does the term my rectum spring to mind.  Why they voted was because of immigration.  Which has nothing to do with the EU. But that fanny was spun by Big Kraky Bojo the world beating muppet.  And swallowed hook line and sinker.  As it is now slowly dawning.  I will say the same to you.  If what I said is wrong.  Correct it.  I am not arguing.  Those in denial are. Fact 2.  The UK will lose its passporting rights in the EU.  That is not trade. It is servicing and banking.  And that is 80% of the UK economy.  That is only as good as the next crash.  And you are still paying after more than 10 years for the last one.   By the way that is why the pantomime toff JRM has moved his business to Ireland. And why the part time politician John Redwood.  Has instructed his clients to move away from sterling to the Euro.  The very people who voted to let English school kids starve. As they scoff their £70 breakfast.  Compliments of the UK tax payer. But heh why let facts get in the road.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-passporting-rights-banks-financial-services-michel-barnier-speech-talks-david-davis-a8064836.html
https://citywire.co.uk/wealth-manager/news/boss-of-rees-mogg-firm-denies-dublin-move-due-to-brexit/a1140796
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/13/labour-accuses-john-redwood-of-talking-britain-down

[Nick]

Of course they will.
They have offices in an EU country.

They are global banks. They register in every jurisdiction. Not just the UK.

No, no, you're wrong Baff 😂. For example, all of HSBC's 7500 offices in 80 countries will flat line come 1st Jan. I mean, they won't be able to direct currencies to which ever office is best for that transaction.

[Baff]

Once the UK leaves without a deal it looses it's financial passporting lisenses. This covers such things as bonds, hedge funds, foreign currency, loans etc... A UK bank won't be able to do these and many other financial services.

Of course they will.
They have offices in an EU country.

They are global banks. They register in every jurisdiction. Not just the UK.

[Nick]

Where is die in the ditch anyway, wasn't he supposed to be leading the UK out by now. His latest deadline missed.

16th October Boris tells U.K. to prepare for no deal: EU gets 25 irate calls from member states telling them enough is enough and they better get a deal.
You see Gerry, our deal with Japan which was concluded in record time has shown the EU how much trade with the U.K. means to the big hitters. This has focused the minds of Barnier and his bully boys. You limp wristed liberals can mock it all you want but as none of you can disprove, there is nothing the EU has that we can't buy from within the Commonwealth. And TBH I feel more for these countries and their people than any of the 27 WU members. I don't feel or want to be European but unfortunately tectonics governs my status.

Do you get it yet?

[Nick]

This covers such things as bonds, hedge funds, foreign currency, loans etc... A UK bank won't be able to do these and many other financial services.

Once again Gerry your "Ducks floats, wood floats: Ducks are made of wood" logic is up the junction.

So after Brexit, a U.K. bank won't be able to issue a bond, deal in hedge funds, issue foreign currency or give a loan? Another classic.
I walk into my local bank and tell them I want a loan of £12.50 to buy my dear Irish friend a new calculator and they'll say "Nope, can't do that. Those pesky EU bastards won't let us give you the money, that poor wretch is going to have to use his fingers and toes until we rejoin the almighty EU".

There's more holes in your posts than those horrible round polystyrene wafers sprinkled in bistro.

We now await super Jimmy to come to your rescue and tell us we just don't get it and post the same garbage he has for the last 2 weeks.

[GerryT]

Why do you feel that passporting is an issue?
You have passporting between every other country.

It's the global norm.

The vast bulk of financial transactions operate in this manner

Once the UK leaves without a deal it looses it's financial passporting lisenses. This covers such things as bonds, hedge funds, foreign currency, loans etc... A UK bank won't be able to do these and many other financial services.
I doubt it will stop you transfering money from one bank to another but they won't be covered by the same regulatory body or standards. I think today if you transfer money to the wrong bank account in the EU then the money is sent back, no argument. But will that still stand in the future, who knows, so don't get the IBAN number wrong. What about money you have lodged in an EU bank, as a non EU national will that money be protected like it is today ? I don't know but if I were you and you had 20 or 30k in an EU bank I'd be getting that back to the UK.
The real impact is business, the UK does in the region of 40 billion £ worth of business deals each yr using trillions of £ of peoples money (In that I mean if a bank loans 1m at 3% it makes 30k gross. That's lost without a deal. It's a far greater impact that product trade on the UK economy.
You might not worry that a banker looses money but that loss in revenue reduces tax take and that impacts you. Pension payments (not triple locked now that Johnson can do what he wants) or NHS cover etc...
I'll accept the argument that brexit allows the UK for a fleeting moment to have 100% sovereignty, but in the financial stakes its a complete disaster for the UK.

Where is die in the ditch anyway, wasn't he supposed to be leading the UK out by now. His latest deadline missed.