General Brexit discussion thread

[patman post]

^^^
From the link above on MFN:

Some exceptions are allowed. For example, countries can set up a free trade agreement that applies only to goods traded within the group —   discriminating against goods from outside. Or they can give developing countries special access to their markets. Or a country can raise barriers against products that are considered to be traded unfairly from specific countries. And in services, countries are allowed, in limited circumstances, to discriminate. But the agreements only permit these exceptions under strict conditions. In general, MFN means that every time a country lowers a trade barrier or opens up a market, it has to do so for the same goods or services from all its trading partners — whether rich or poor, weak or strong.

It's sometimes surprising how flexible some rigid international rules can be...

[Thomas]

Who is going to tell the UK that on 'no deal' they have to put up a border?
Simple question.

Nick i remember the link being posted a few years back on the old forum , but from memory you are partially correct in that the uk doesnt have to put up a border with the republic of ireland , but if the uk doesnt , then under WTO ( is it first country rule?) it has to offer the same lack of border control to everyone else.

I think again from memory the implications of doing this for the uk treasurey in terms of loss of revenue and customes would be immense.

Not to mention it seems absurd to argue one minute you want control of your borders from the eu , then to give them up the next.


edit to add....

Most-favoured-nation (MFN): treating other people equally  Under the WTO agreements, countries cannot normally discriminate between their trading partners. Grant someone a special favour (such as a lower customs duty rate for one of their products) and you have to do the same for all other WTO members.

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/fact2_e.htm

[Nick]

Very simple.  The good Friday is a international agreement. That border between NI and their ROI. Would remain open.  EU borders are a EU agreement. One conflates with the other, while the Uk was a member.  The UK is no longer a EU member.   . And the UK is not the legislator.  And cannot dictate who has or does not have a border.  Your self deluded importance is running riot. .   And when the UK is finished with the transition.  The French are going to tell Big kranky Bojo.  The world beating muppet.  Who did not even know he had a border with the EU.  .  You want your border.  You move it of French soil. .. And for your information.  Borders are internationally recognised. You are clutching at straws.  Like the border  between the UK and the ROI. It is the UK bozo.  Who is closing it.  The UK has left the EU.  Not the other way about.  But  heh why let facts get in the road.

In 2018, Boris Johnson, told the DUP "no British government could or should" sign up to putting a border in the Irish Sea between mainland United Kingdom and Northern Ireland - less than one year later Mr. Johnson put a border in the Irish Sea.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/breaking-international-law-peace-northern-ireland
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/watch-boris-johnson-tell-dup-2018-he-would-never-put-border-irish-sea-today-he-put-border-irish-sea-816300
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37921598

Who is going to tell the UK that on 'no deal' they have to put up a border?
Simple question.

[Jaydee]

Very simply.

If the UK leaves with no deal which international legislation requires the UK to have a hard border with the EU?

Very simple.  The good Friday is a international agreement. That border between NI and their ROI. Would remain open.  EU borders are a EU agreement. One conflates with the other, while the Uk was a member.  The UK is no longer a EU member.   . And the UK is not the legislator.  And cannot dictate who has or does not have a border.  Your self deluded importance is running riot. .   And when the UK is finished with the transition.  The French are going to tell Big kranky Bojo.  The world beating muppet.  Who did not even know he had a border with the EU.  .  You want your border.  You move it of French soil. .. And for your information.  Borders are internationally recognised. You are clutching at straws.  Like the border  between the UK and the ROI. It is the UK bozo.  Who is closing it.  The UK has left the EU.  Not the other way about.  But  heh why let facts get in the road.

In 2018, Boris Johnson, told the DUP "no British government could or should" sign up to putting a border in the Irish Sea between mainland United Kingdom and Northern Ireland - less than one year later Mr. Johnson put a border in the Irish Sea.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/breaking-international-law-peace-northern-ireland
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/watch-boris-johnson-tell-dup-2018-he-would-never-put-border-irish-sea-today-he-put-border-irish-sea-816300
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37921598

[Nick]

Yes.  And you do not.  That is why you are arrogant, issue threats, insulting  and answer nothing.  Which part of borders is causing you a issue from the links I gave you? I even put a question mark

Very simply.

If the UK leaves with no deal which international legislation requires the UK to have a hard border with the EU?

[Jaydee]

It's not enough to read stuff, you need to understand it.

Yes.  And you do not.  That is why you are arrogant, issue threats, insulting  and answer nothing.  Which part of borders is causing you a issue from the links I gave you? I even put a question mark

[Nick]

When you enter the UK from anywhere in the world. Even the EU.   You are subject to passport control. The Uk is not in the Schengen area.  And already controls its own borders.  It has nothing to do with the EU. Because the border force has been decimated.  Is a separate issue.  Which you clearly do not grasp.

It's not enough to read stuff, you need to understand it.

[Nick]

You matey. Need to cut the rhetoric. And a arrogant disgrace as a Administrator.  Your insults and threats  are atrocious.    Because you feel your self deluded conclusion is correct. I just gave you a link about borders. Which part is causing you problems.  That fecking tosspot, Big Kranky Bojo the world famous muppet  who spouts utter garbage and you worship.  Does not even know what a border is,  And signed a agreement which he is now welching on.  .  It has now been explained to him. And Biden has told him.  Question the good Friday agreement.  And good bye Britain. You will get no deal. You really do not have a clue do you. Stick to comma's and question marks not being in the correct place.

Democrats have warned that if the UK undermines the peace process or reinstates a hard border to secure Brexit on its terms, the UK's chances of securing the required congressional support for a UK-US free trade deal will disappear.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/16/us-uk-trade-deal-in-danger-if-good-friday-agreement-jeopardised-democrats-warn
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/uk-us-trade-deal-could-be-blocked-by-biden-presidency-and-congress/

You keep referring to EU borders, they do not make the rules. The UK does not have to follow EU files on borders. 

[Jaydee]

I could walk from South Africa to Morocco without ever being checked at a border. I have driven across a few of these borders personally. Kenya into Uganda, Namibia into Angola and Gambia into Senegal, no checks.

I could enter the EU from many unmanned borders, are you that naive that you think the EU is free from smuggling? Just look on Google Earth to see the open borders.

When you enter the UK from anywhere in the world. Even the EU.   You are subject to passport control. The Uk is not in the Schengen area.  And already controls its own borders.  It has nothing to do with the EU. Because the border force has been decimated.  Is a separate issue.  Which you clearly do not grasp. 

[Jaydee]

A warning. Cut the rhetoric and answer the questions in hand.
You're obviously not understanding the question? Where is it written that the UK has to have any sort of border with the UK if we have no deal?

You matey. Need to cut the rhetoric. And a arrogant disgrace as a Administrator.  Your insults and threats  are atrocious.    Because you feel your self deluded conclusion is correct. I just gave you a link about borders. Which part is causing you problems.  That fecking tosspot, Big Kranky Bojo the world famous muppet  who spouts utter garbage and you worship.  Does not even know what a border is,  And signed a agreement which he is now welching on.  .  It has now been explained to him. And Biden has told him.  Question the good Friday agreement.  And good bye Britain. You will get no deal. You really do not have a clue do you. Stick to comma's and question marks not being in the correct place.

Democrats have warned that if the UK undermines the peace process or reinstates a hard border to secure Brexit on its terms, the UK's chances of securing the required congressional support for a UK-US free trade deal will disappear.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/16/us-uk-trade-deal-in-danger-if-good-friday-agreement-jeopardised-democrats-warn
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/uk-us-trade-deal-could-be-blocked-by-biden-presidency-and-congress/

[Nick]

give an example of a border between two regions with different tariff regimes and different standards that is open like the NI border.

With hundreds to pick from it shouldn't take long.

.

I could walk from South Africa to Morocco without ever being checked at a border. I have driven across a few of these borders personally. Kenya into Uganda, Namibia into Angola and Gambia into Senegal, no checks.

I could enter the EU from many unmanned borders, are you that naive that you think the EU is free from smuggling? Just look on Google Earth to see the open borders.

[Nick]

That matey about sums up your understanding.  That is the same level as Big Kranky Bojo.  The world leading muppet.  The border is for goods.  Not people. but the red line for that bozo was people.   Now you tell me. Where there will not be a border for goods.  That clown did not even know what he signed. 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/18/boris-johnson-didnt-know-many-checks-irish-border-10768692/

A warning. Cut the rhetoric and answer the questions in hand.
You're obviously not understanding the question? Where is it written that the UK has to have any sort of border with the UK if we have no deal?

[BeElBeeBub]

No there doesn't. Show me where it says there has to be a border: There are hundreds of open borders world wide.

give an example of a border between two regions with different tariff regimes and different standards that is open like the NI border.

With hundreds to pick from it shouldn't take long.

.

[Jaydee]

No there doesn't. Show me where it says there has to be a border: There are hundreds of open borders world wide.

That matey about sums up your understanding.  That is the same level as Big Kranky Bojo.  The world leading muppet.  The border is for goods.  Not people. but the red line for that bozo was people.   Now you tell me. Where there will not be a border for goods.  That clown did not even know what he signed. 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/18/boris-johnson-didnt-know-many-checks-irish-border-10768692/

[Nick]

If the UK has a different regine (tariffs, standards etc) from the EU there has to be a border

No there doesn't. Show me where it says there has to be a border: There are hundreds of open borders world wide.