General Brexit discussion thread

[Jaydee]

In the strict sense that you have to wave one, yes.

But we do have a porous border

When Cressida Dick.ordered Juan Charles De Menezez gunned down her PR machine went into overdrive denouncing him as an illegal immigrant, who entered the country on a visa he had outstayed and worked illegally in violation of.

This was a lie

In response to warnings from his immigration savvy acquaintsnc s at his dodgy accomodation, the Brazilian handyman had a few months earlier travelled to, and then re-enter d the UK from, Eire.

Giving him the benefit of six months free right to live and work in the UK which we seem to have singularly failed to rescind when the Irish repaid that hospitality by blowing Airey Neave's legs off.

I look forward to that loophole closing in two months, but the fact is if you are asserting that the UK has the right to challenge and prevent people washing into itself from every gangplank then you are, in fact, wrong.

The UK is not in the schengen area.  Everybody who enters the Uk from anywhere in the world, including the EU is subject to passport control.  Because this bunch of toss pots in Number 10 decimated the border force  and the police force.  Resulting in total failure to police the border.  Is a separate issue. On top of that.  Since 2012. The Uk internal security forces and immigration have had total access to all EU criminal records. And Cressida Dick did not order anyone to be gunned down.  A police officer is subject to the full force of the law.  And is responsible for his actions.  And has nothing to fear if he acted in this case,  that he  had cause to believe his life or that of others were in danger.  And his action will be processed in due course of law.  That is a matter for the prosecuting authority.  Not the police.  However let me ask you a question. On this subject of border. What will the UK be able to do on 1st January.  That it cannot do now, or I correct.  When it was a full member of the EU, or now?.

[johnofgwent]

Which part of the UK is not in the schengen area do you not understand.  Everybody is subject to passport control, where ever they entered the UK, from anywhere.

In the strict sense that you have to wave one, yes.

But we do have a porous border

When Cressida Dick.ordered Juan Charles De Menezez gunned down her PR machine went into overdrive denouncing him as an illegal immigrant, who entered the country on a visa he had outstayed and worked illegally in violation of.

This was a lie

In response to warnings from his immigration savvy acquaintsnc s at his dodgy accomodation, the Brazilian handyman had a few months earlier travelled to, and then re-enter d the UK from, Eire.

Giving him the benefit of six months free right to live and work in the UK which we seem to have singularly failed to rescind when the Irish repaid that hospitality by blowing Airey Neave's legs off.

I look forward to that loophole closing in two months, but the fact is if you are asserting that the UK has the right to challenge and prevent people washing into itself from every gangplank then you are, in fact, wrong.

[Jaydee]

No you did, so you answered your own question, now you want the same answer from Nick, which you already gave, feck me, it ain't rocket science.

Tell me something.  I asked. Are you saying there will be no borders for the purpose of tariffs when the UK leaves the EU on the termination of the transition.  Or are you on about the CTA.   Between the ROI and the United Kingdom?

I really give in.  How did I answer my own question.  By the way.  What does No you did infer.  Allow me to ask you.  What are you saying. Here is the same question.. It is a very simple question.  .

[i}.Are you saying there will be no borders for the purpose of tariffs when the UK leaves the EU on the termination of the transition.  Or are you on about the CTA.   Between the ROI and the United Kingdom?[/i]

That is the question i am also asking you.  So how about answering for yourself.   Instead of for Nick. 

[Sheepy]

I have.  And once again you did not answer the question asked.  Whether I read or did not read previous posts.  And you have posted on open forum.  There was me thinking the  idea is to discuss what is posted on open forum.  . Not jump in as you put it.  So let me ask you again.   

Are you saying there will be no borders for the purpose of tariffs when the UK leaves the EU on the termination of the transition.  Or are you on about the CTA.   Between the ROI and the United Kingdom?

That is called a question.  I even added the question mark.

No you did, so you answered your own question, now you want the same answer from Nick, which you already gave, feck me, it ain't rocket science.

[Jaydee]

You need to read previous posts to understand the context, not just jump in.

I have.  And once again you did not answer the question asked.  Whether I read or did not read previous posts.  And you have posted on open forum.  There was me thinking the  idea is to discuss what is posted on open forum.  . Not jump in as you put it.  So let me ask you again.   

Are you saying there will be no borders for the purpose of tariffs when the UK leaves the EU on the termination of the transition.  Or are you on about the CTA.   Between the ROI and the United Kingdom?

That is called a question.  I even added the question mark.

[Nick]

Which part of the UK is not in the schengen area do you not understand.  Everybody is subject to passport control, where ever they entered the UK, from anywhere.  It has nothing to do with the EU.  And what has open borders, which in plain English are still borders, all over the world to do with a upcoming EU/UK tariff border.  At the point where two regulatory alignment meet. Instead of  ducking, diving  and weaving.  And moving the goal posts. What exactly is your problem.  And what exactly  are you trying to say.  Are you saying there will be no borders for the purpose of tariffs when the UK leaves the EU on the termination of the transition.  .  Or are you on about the CTA.   Between the ROI and the United Kingdom

You need to read previous posts to understand the context, not just jump in.

[Jaydee]

If Hungary hadn't built its intelligent fence some years back there would be an open border with Serbia. As for the rest of the EU, there are loads of open borders which you can drive through or walk over. Just look on Google Earth.
Don't even need to look world wide there are that many examples of holes in the EU.

Which part of the UK is not in the schengen area do you not understand.  Everybody is subject to passport control, where ever they entered the UK, from anywhere.  It has nothing to do with the EU.  And what has open borders, which in plain English are still borders, all over the world to do with a upcoming EU/UK tariff border.  At the point where two regulatory alignment meet. Instead of  ducking, diving  and weaving.  And moving the goal posts. What exactly is your problem.  And what exactly  are you trying to say.  Are you saying there will be no borders for the purpose of tariffs when the UK leaves the EU on the termination of the transition.  .  Or are you on about the CTA.   Between the ROI and the United Kingdom

[papasmurf]

The EU borders are doing nothing to stop illegal passage of goods, same as it would at the NI/SI border.

On Freeview there is a series about border checks and when it show port and airports in Southern Ireland there are border check and a lot of them.

[Nick]

You cannot legally at cross any point at any time.

Clearly I don't mean Schengen borders, I mean all the open external borders of which there are many.

I very much doubt smugglers stop at an open border and say 'Sorry lads we are not legally allowed to cross here'. The EU borders are doing nothing to stop illegal passage of goods, same as it would at the NI/SI border.

[BeElBeeBub]

Here is a town on the US/Canada border

The US/Canada border is far from impenetrable. There isn't a wall or fence along most of it.  You could theoretically haul your container of beefy bikes across some fields, or through a forest.

But that would be illegal.

You can see the issues where the border splits the town.

No imagine that with the history of Ireland

https://youtu.be/EocJm3Dry4E

[BeElBeeBub]

If Hungary hadn't built its intelligent fence some years back there would be an open border with Serbia. As for the rest of the EU, there are loads of open borders which you can drive through or walk over. Just look on Google Earth.
Don't even need to look world wide there are that many examples of holes in the EU.

This open border?...



As for the other open borders, if you mean the Schengen borders like Belgium/France, then those are only open because of the network.of agreements that make up the Customs Union, Single Market and Schengen zone and none of those will apply to NI/RoI.

If you mean the external borders, none are similar to the NI/RoI border as is now.

All have strict entry requirements. You cannot legally at cross any point at any time.

[Nick]

it's not just bikes and beef it's everything.

Can you give an example of a border anywhere in the world that is like the Irish border (or any of the internal EU borders)  where there are twomdiffenet tariff/regulatory regimes?

If Hungary hadn't built its intelligent fence some years back there would be an open border with Serbia. As for the rest of the EU, there are loads of open borders which you can drive through or walk over. Just look on Google Earth.
Don't even need to look world wide there are that many examples of holes in the EU.

[BeElBeeBub]

Probably plenty of goods besides bicycles that could be peddled across the channel. But I don't see much US spec beef being moooved from Northern Ireland to the Republic, or wrangled from Gib into Spain.
Though if it did happen, it could be a barter deal in exchange for much needed GOH's...

it's not just bikes and beef it's everything.

Can you give an example of a border anywhere in the world that is like the Irish border (or any of the internal EU borders)  where there are twomdiffenet tariff/regulatory regimes?

[BeElBeeBub]

But other than very niche market expensive bikes, does Britain make and bikes?

not a huge amount. Brompton obviously, pashley, Moulton and some manufacturers of kids bikes

Less than 1% of the UK market I believe.

Which is why the UK decided to drop the anti dumping tariff against state subsidised Chinese bikes.

Basically the "we don't grow oranges" argument.

It does mean that there will be a different tariff regime for a bike landing in Ireland in Belfast than for a bike landing in Dublin.

Which is a problem if the border remains as it currently is

[papasmurf]

In case you haven't noticed demand for bikes across Europe is sky high at the moment.

But other than very niche market expensive bikes, does Britain make and bikes?