General Brexit discussion thread

[Sheepy]

Pretty sure the UK has categorically stated it will not be the one to build any kind of border, that leaves a very big headache for the EU.

Which in actual fact, before anyone got carried away and started agreeing to one for the sake of the EU, I kindly pointed out, that was not a good idea.

[Nick]

No just reading the words of biden on his priorities around Ireland.

Have a read of the first bullet point of "What Joe Biden will do"

Pretty sure the UK has categorically stated it will not be the one to build any kind of border, that leaves a very big headache for the EU.

[BeElBeeBub]

We may have a no trade deal exit on 1st Jan.
Biden won't be there until 3 weeks later.
What will happen in between? Any problems will be being ironed out. Pragmatists will always win, follow the money.

I worry that following the money will just lead straight out of the UK.

The Treasury's furlough scheme will help cushion the immediate job impact but that just gives the government a few (very expensive) moths breathing room.

Once supply chains realign due to a shock it's hard work winning them back.

[Thomas]

yesAh sorry. I think were at cross purposes.

The 43/40/35 was the popular vote share.

I haven't checked but 25% could well be the share of the total electorate (those who could vote).

I agree the current system results in governments formed from a minority of votes.

I'm not sure what we can do about that.

We can improve it, but we will always have the issue that not all the population will be eligible to vote and of those that are, not all will, so any government will only be formed from the votes of a minority of the population or electorate

I do think system that recognises this would improve things.

There is never "the will of the people', only ever "the will of some of the people". Recognising and accomodating those whose."will" it isn't is vital

In 2005 blair took around 25 % of the total electorate vote and won a majority government , and this was merely an example of my discussion with cromwell on uk democracy. My point  to you obviously was 52% in the 2016 was the popualr vote share yet that was disputed as being an overall minority of the electrorate ( it was) while tony blair momentus 2005 victory is often ignore for what that was , hence my comments about selective cherry picking to suit the argument.

What i want to do about it is take my country out of your union.

There is no "we". I keep telling english remainers like you and english brexiters the same thing .

[Sheepy]

And Bellblubber who has said exactly they won't respect the good Friday agreement, Oh the EU.

[BeElBeeBub]

Speaking for Biden and the Americans already Beelblubber.

No just reading the words of biden on his priorities around Ireland.

Have a read of the first bullet point of "What Joe Biden will do"

[BeElBeeBub]

The usual wish politics.

not at all. I want the UK to be prosperous and influential (I assume you do as well)

Where we differ is on how that can be achieved.

I believe that the current course will alienate the EU and the US.  Given we have alienated china already that leave the UK with very few levers to pull on when push comes to shove.

We are already less useful to the US as a bridge to the EU. I suspect that mantle will move to Ireland now

[BeElBeeBub]

f**k sake beelbeeb.

Tony blair lost 4 million labour votes during his stay in number 10 , and one of his biggest legacies on uk demcoracy was the massive increase in the "none of the above " vote .

yes

This is the hypocrisy i often point out exists with people like you beely. How you take great pains in the past to point out in 2016 , the 17 half million was only a minority of the uk electorate while ignoring the fact tony blair only got 25% of the electorate in certain of his victories to gain a majority i nthe commons.

You can't have it both ways.

Ah sorry. I think were at cross purposes.

The 43/40/35 was the popular vote share.

I haven't checked but 25% could well be the share of the total electorate (those who could vote).

I agree the current system results in governments formed from a minority of votes.

I'm not sure what we can do about that.

We can improve it, but we will always have the issue that not all the population will be eligible to vote and of those that are, not all will, so any government will only be formed from the votes of a minority of the population or electorate

I do think system that recognises this would improve things.

There is never "the will of the people', only ever "the will of some of the people". Recognising and accomodating those whose."will" it isn't is vital

[Sheepy]

On another note, Joe Biden has no reason to love Goldman Sachs either, they did the Democrats up like a kipper at the last election.
Hiding in Frankfurt probably neither here or there.

[Nick]

The UK could end up very isolated.

The usual wish politics.

[Barry]

We may have a no trade deal exit on 1st Jan.
Biden won't be there until 3 weeks later.
What will happen in between? Any problems will be being ironed out. Pragmatists will always win, follow the money.

[Sheepy]

Speaking for Biden and the Americans already Beelblubber.

[BeElBeeBub]

Well in the bigger picture Ireland might feel it has one of its long lost sons, but in reality, the US has a lot more on its plate than little old Ireland, the Chinese are breathing down its neck and it is either a bastion of democracy or it ain't, the Chinese will be all over them like a rash. Just like they were the Ughurs.

And Binden's reaction to China will be to seek closer ties with the EU, the other world power block, as the bulwark against china.

That means that the US will support the EU more than under a trump adminstration.

So if the UK sticks 2 fingers up at the EU, that will stall progress with the US.

The UK could end up very isolated.  Which some here see as a feature not a bug, but it would reduce both our prosperity and our influence.

[Thomas]

I'm not going to argue that the UK democratic system is close to perfect or representative (it isn't).

But Blair's votes were 43%, 40% and 35% respectively, and in all cases a plurality.

There hasn't been a popular vote majority government since the 1930's (although close in the 50's)

F@@@ sake beelbeeb.

Tony blair lost 4 million labour votes during his stay in number 10 , and one of his biggest legacies on uk demcoracy was the massive increase in the "none of the above " vote .

This is the hypocrisy i often point out exists with people like you beely. How you take great pains in the past to point out in 2016 , the 17 half million was only a minority of the uk electorate while ignoring the fact tony blair only got 25% of the electorate in certain of his victories to gain a majority i nthe commons.

You cant have it both ways.

[Sheepy]

However you look at it sheep , you can't dismiss the fact biden is extremely pro ireland , supports the GFA , is totally anti brexit and not too supportive of johnson and his party.

I dont know anymore than anyone else what biden will do going forward regarding issues like brexit , scot indy etc , but there can't be any doubt his election is another barrier in place for those like you and i who oppose the current status quo.

If you say so, but then, he already gave a nod when he said democracy must be respected, which he was reminded of in the middle of the election.