General Brexit discussion thread

[Barry]

https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2020-08-13/irish-sea-trade-border-over-my-dead-body-says-johnson

Boris Johnson has said there will be a trade border down the Irish Sea "over my dead body" following Brexit.

Come on Sheepy, he's still waiting for someone to pull him out of the ditch. He's not a Conservative, I've discovered, and he's not to be trusted, ever.

[Sheepy]

I suspect you are full of bullshit Beelblubber as usual.

[Barry]

It was an integral part of Johnson's WA.

WAS being the operative word. The change to domestic legislation deliberately trumped that.
There will be no trade agreement with the US. Biden has already mooted that. That will be his right from Jan 20th.

The 59th Presidential Inauguration and Swearing-In ceremony is expected to take place on January 20th, 2021 in Washington, D.C. on the West front of the Unites States Capitol.

[Sheepy]

https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2020-08-13/irish-sea-trade-border-over-my-dead-body-says-johnson

[BeElBeeBub]

It was the uk who built the original border 100 years ago.

What matters is the perspective of the northern irish , no one else. If they arent happy with whatever arrangements are made post brexit , then thats what matters.

Not someone in england either pro or anti brexit trying to gloss over issues and use northern ireland for their own viewpoint.

In the 1920`s  , britain was taking a hardline stance to irish independence and carving out the 6 counties , then two deacdes later churchill offered the irish the 6 counties if they renounced neutrality and allowed british ships to use their ports.

In the eighties , thatcher took a hardline stance to the northern irish troubles , and a decade later the uk government was signing the  GFA.

I dont believe a thing the uk government say , nor have they had a good track record in ireland. Over the last century , their track record is one of defeat and giving up ground in Ireland.

I suspect the US will view the party that's action in breaking it's agreements cashed the need for a border to be at fault rather than the party that had to build the border because the other side broken their word.

[BeElBeeBub]

They got the boot for it and are languishing down at the job centre. Lets not start about ignorance, because you have been spouting it for years and now you have been caught red handed. 

You are ignorant of the facts.

The current Parliament sat on the 19th December 2019, 7ndayw after the 2019 GE

The Withdrawal Agreement was voted for in January 2020, by the current parliament

It was laid before Parliament but the current government (having been negotiated and agreed by Boris Johnson)

MPs that voted for it includes Johnson, Gove, Redwood, IDS, JRM, Francois and other leading lights of the Leave movement.

[Borg Refinery]

Hasn't Boris said in not so many words that he'll renege on Brexit if Biden gets elected? 

I swear he said he'll delay it til after the US election at least...

If that's true then I told you, told you this would happen. If you want a broad Brexit coalition including non-billionaire snake oil salesman I wouldn't be bothered, it might even be better than what we can vote for currently in England, but folks get sick of billionaires talking rubbish after a while.

It gets boring. As for the EU, they have really started to go wrong under Ursula by the looks of things -

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/environment/eu-agricultural-policy-cap-mep-vote-reform-farming-climate-change-extinction-b1226540.html%3Famp

And the EU have started multiple lawsuits against England. ......

Ireland's blatant tax avoidance and constant ignoring of EU rules probably means they should be given an earful, but Ursula seems to weak to bother, where Juncker wasn't. I preferred Juncker.

[Thomas]

I'm not saying there won't be a border, I'm fairly sure the UK won't be the one's to built it though.

It was the uk who built the original border 100 years ago.

What matters is the perspective of the northern irish , no one else. If they arent happy with whatever arrangements are made post brexit , then thats what matters.

Not someone in england either pro or anti brexit trying to gloss over issues and use northern ireland for their own viewpoint.

In the 1920`s  , britain was taking a hardline stance to irish independence and carving out the 6 counties , then two deacdes later churchill offered the irish the 6 counties if they renounced neutrality and allowed british ships to use their ports.

In the eighties , thatcher took a hardline stance to the northern irish troubles , and a decade later the uk government was signing the  GFA.

I dont believe a thing the uk government say , nor have they had a good track record in ireland. Over the last century , their track record is one of defeat and giving up ground in Ireland.

[Nick]

the idea there wont be a border or you can blame it on the eu if there is wont wash.

I'm not saying there won't be a border, I'm fairly sure the UK won't be the one's to built it though.

The reality is that there will be some kind of deal, that is the easiest solution. They have said today there are still big sticking points, namely level playing field and fishing. Both things the EU want so it isn't the UK demanding things they can't have, it's the EU wanting things that were quintessential to why we voted leave like our fishing rights. I'm guessing it will be the usual 12th hour dash from the EU as usual.

[Sheepy]

The UK's sovereign parliament agreed to put up a border in the Irish sea for the sake of the EU.

It was an integral part of Johnson's WA. His agreeing to this was the reason he managed to get a WA in the first place.

The fact you didn't read the small print or listen to those who told you what it meant isn't important.

Ignorance is no defence.

They got the boot for it and are languishing down at the job centre. Lets not start about ignorance, because you have been spouting it for years and now you have been caught red handed. 

[BeElBeeBub]

Nice try Bellblubber, but the remainers have been all over the internet on behalf of the EU saying the border was an EU necessity, got ya, while leave have said all along we have no intention of putting up a border with Eire for the sake of the EU.

The UK's sovereign parliament agreed to put up a border in the Irish sea for the sake of the EU.

It was an integral part of Johnson's WA. His agreeing to this was the reason he managed to get a WA in the first place.

The fact you didn't read the small print or listen to those who told you what it meant isn't important.

Ignorance is no defence.

[BeElBeeBub]

Which in actual fact, before anyone got carried away and started agreeing to one for the sake of the EU, I kindly pointed out, that was not a good idea.

It will come down to who the US holds responsible for any border being needed in Ireland.

Will it hold Ireland/EU responsible for having to uphold it's borders when the UK has failed to carry out it's obligations to do so?

Maybe a Trump admin might have.

But will a Biden (with Irish ties) adminstration (and the current congress with it's large Irish contingent) decide the fault lies with Ireland or the UK?.

Remember if the Irish have to detect a broader with NI, it will be entirely because the UK has broken it's agreements.

[Sheepy]

Nice try Bellblubber, but the remainers have been all over the internet on behalf of the EU saying the border was an EU necessity, got ya, while leave have said all along we have no intention of putting up a border with Eire for the sake of the EU. 

[Thomas]

Pretty sure the UK has categorically stated it will not be the one to build any kind of border, that leaves a very big headache for the EU.

come oan now nick ,this is a nonsense.

The idea when anyone talks about the irish border  , you simply shout "there wont be one" really is ridiculous.

We have been discussing this for four years if not more , and while i agree "hard border" is a completely vague concept and bogeyman put out there by anglo remainers , the idea there wont be a border or you can blame it on the eu if there is wont wash.

It doesnt matter what you think , what matter is what the citizens of northern ireland think , and that is the crux of the issue.

If enough of them object to england s brexit and any issue at the border that deviates from what they have now , then its your problem not anyone elses if you want to keep your precious union together.

[BeElBeeBub]

And Bellblubber who has said exactly they won't respect the good Friday agreement, Oh the EU.

nope. The UK said it would respect the GFA, it agreed measures with the EU to protect the GFA (Johnson's "Frontstop" aka the NI protocol) and now the UK is breaking (ornhrewtening to) those measures.

When it comes to apportioning blame the US will weigh several things including which party it needs to keep sweetest.

Will the US decide to align with the bigger economic and military power who have been broadly supportive of Biden in the past, or the smaller economic and military power whose current adminstration is intimately linked with Trump?