World Peace

[Churchill]

The largest Christian population in the world is in China. You are utterly misguided by the propaganda. Why don't you spend some time studying the country as I have done? Why don't you try chatting to some Chinese people yourself and ask them? Find out what their beliefs are and see how compatible it is to the bible and I think you stand a chance of seeing it if you take your blinkers off. I'm just saying, give the Chinese a fair hearing.



 I will confess, I only really started suspecting the Western propaganda was wrong when I started to trade with them. To start with i thought like you and avoided trading with them, but on one particular day I had bought something from the West for £2.50 and tested it out and found it was OK and cheaper than the £10 I paid for the same thing 20 years ago. Then perchance I spotted the same thing from China that I had bought and they wanted about £2.50 for five, so it was 1/5th of the price. Same thing, 1/5 of the cost, as I could see by the picture. This was the point where I saw the propaganda was wrong. I ordered the five and they were the same thing and they were good. I reasoned the West had marked the price up 500% because we trusted them, even though we were paying for the same thing.



You never saw that though. I did, one thing led to another and now I'm a regular customer of the Chinese, and yes i do love them. I thought you were a Christian. In fact only by trading with them, I did  have this first-hand experience of how honest and how good they were. Now I have done far more research and the conclusion of world peace seems to be it. You should really take a look at the place one day. Do you know they have huge farms out in space? They are in the sky, but you don't know that , do you!!!

Most people are customers of the Chinese in this day and age if you shop on line due to their manufacturing output of virtually anything you can think of.



Last info on religion in China on line I could find dated 2015 shows, 90% of Chinese are registered as atheists or non religious although many do carry out different traditional rituals , also China is  currently rounding up Muslims taking them into custody to re-educate them.



China a relatively new name has invaded other countries latest one is Tibet, long time ago East Turkestan, Mongolia and Manchuria.



As for firearms most individual cannot possess a firearm however for hunting purposes you can, organisations can such as Security Companies  protecting state buildings, if you commit any crime in China with a firearm they execute you, commit fraud or corruption they execute you, sell drugs they execute you, any crime against the state they execute you.

[Baron von Lotsov]

It's mostly the Chinese threatened by the Chinese.

Here is a list of pacifist China's pacifism, from your beloved https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_wars_and_battles">Wikipedia

That's what I was saying, they have never invaded anywhere. They were not the Vikings or the Goths or the Normans or any of those. Obviously during any country's history there will be squabbles over power and control, but regarding the rest of the world, they became the largest global trader in the world, even larger than us Brits, and the Silk Road was legendary.



One of the wars was the Japanese invasion. It was brutal, and to this day the Chinese regard the Japanese like we look at the Germans, but worse. It's a really sore point for the Chinese, so the Japs will have trouble being a harmonious part of the new world. Mind you the Japs are pretty smart themselves and will do alright, and there are signs the two countries are eventually forgiving the past and they do trade with them now.



You see their modern history is that of a nation under perpetual persecution. It's a bit like the Jews feel like that, but the Chinese are not wearing it on their sleeve like the Jews in that they think differently. Typically the Chinese will say we learn from the past. We use it to increase our wisdom. Another prominent feature is they say, we missed out on the industrial revolution the first time around so China is catching up. Everywhere you go, you experience modest people, which as you should know, is a Christian virtue. And what you are seeing is a miracle, because no one really predicted this. It has taken us all by surprise, although some sussed on before others. I'm still a newcomer to this myself. Even Americans who go over there and see for themselves come back and unanimously give it the thumbs up. They might be shocked, but the shock is like a good surprise, not a bad one. It's a very friendly and civilised place and seriously advanced.

[Barry]

 I've never been threatened by a Chinese person. Have you?

It's mostly the Chinese threatened by the Chinese.

Here is a list of pacifist China's pacifism, from your beloved https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_wars_and_battles">Wikipedia

[Barry]

The largest Christian population in the world is in China. You are utterly misguided by the propaganda. Why don't you spend some time studying the country as I have done? Why don't you try chatting to some Chinese people yourself and ask them? Find out what their beliefs are and see how compatible it is to the bible and I think you stand a chance of seeing it if you take your blinkers off. I'm just saying, give the Chinese a fair hearing.

What propaganda is that? A minister from our local church and his wife were in China and were preaching as guests in a church there. They were arrested and deported. If it doesn't fit in with China's "official church" then it is deemed illegal. This is not propaganda, it is first hand information.

It is well known that Christianity flourished under oppression.

I will confess, I only really started suspecting the Western propaganda was wrong when I started to trade with them. To start with i thought like you and avoided trading with them, but on one particular day I had bought something from the West for £2.50 and tested it out and found it was OK and cheaper than the £10 I paid for the same thing 20 years ago. Then perchance I spotted the same thing from China that I had bought and they wanted about £2.50 for five, so it was 1/5th of the price. Same thing, 1/5 of the cost, as I could see by the picture. This was the point where I saw the propaganda was wrong. I ordered the five and they were the same thing and they were good. I reasoned the West had marked the price up 500% because we trusted them, even though we were paying for the same thing.

How do you think they achieve that price? Are you blind to the virtual slavery their own people are kept in?

You never saw that though. I did, one thing led to another and now I'm a regular customer of the Chinese, and yes i do love them. I thought you were a Christian.

I am. What's your point - I pointed you to Biblical scriptures and you have ignored them. You sound like a christian, not a Bible believing Christian.

In fact only by trading with them, did I have this first-hand experience of how honest and how good they were.

You are joking, now aren't you. You have truly bought their ethos and swallowed it, hook line and sinker.

Now I have done far more research and the conclusion of world peace seems to be it.

Only in YOUR mind, apparently, is anyone else agreeing with you?

You should really take a look at the place one day. Do you know they have huge farms out in space? They are in the sky, but you don't know that , do you!!!

No, you are right I don't know about "Huge farms in space". I'll have a look through my telescope.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Perhaps you are believing the wrong propaganda

I don't read it. In fact you might have noticed I have not had to resort to a single link so far on this thread. I speak mainly from my own experience.

[Baron von Lotsov]

I find it difficult to rationalise an obvious love of China with their human rights record. This is a country that sends Muslims to 're-training' camps and do not allow Christian freedom either. To be a Chinese Christian it is necessary to live abroad. This is a country the totally dominates their citizens. They are a nation to be feared rather than encourage into world domination.,

Fear is how Uncle Sam and his cronies have been controlling you for centuries. I've never been threatened by a Chinese person. Have you?

[T00ts]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/china-christians-religious-persecution-translation-bible">//https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/china-christians-religious-persecution-translation-bible



Perhaps you are believing the wrong propaganda

[Baron von Lotsov]

Oh dear. You really do have a love affair with China and its government and systems, don't you? They suppress people like us, who believe in the Bible.

As for your assertion that all guns and weapons are banned in China. That is not true either.

They need to have guns to suppress their own people.

The largest Christian population in the world is in China. You are utterly misguided by the propaganda. Why don't you spend some time studying the country as I have done? Why don't you try chatting to some Chinese people yourself and ask them? Find out what their beliefs are and see how compatible it is to the bible and I think you stand a chance of seeing it if you take your blinkers off. I'm just saying, give the Chinese a fair hearing.



 I will confess, I only really started suspecting the Western propaganda was wrong when I started to trade with them. To start with i thought like you and avoided trading with them, but on one particular day I had bought something from the West for £2.50 and tested it out and found it was OK and cheaper than the £10 I paid for the same thing 20 years ago. Then perchance I spotted the same thing from China that I had bought and they wanted about £2.50 for five, so it was 1/5th of the price. Same thing, 1/5 of the cost, as I could see by the picture. This was the point where I saw the propaganda was wrong. I ordered the five and they were the same thing and they were good. I reasoned the West had marked the price up 500% because we trusted them, even though we were paying for the same thing.



You never saw that though. I did, one thing led to another and now I'm a regular customer of the Chinese, and yes i do love them. I thought you were a Christian. In fact only by trading with them, I did  have this first-hand experience of how honest and how good they were. Now I have done far more research and the conclusion of world peace seems to be it. You should really take a look at the place one day. Do you know they have huge farms out in space? They are in the sky, but you don't know that , do you!!!

[T00ts]

I find it difficult to rationalise an obvious love of China with their human rights record. This is a country that sends Muslims to 're-training' camps and do not allow Christian freedom either. To be a Chinese Christian it is necessary to live abroad. This is a country the totally dominates their citizens. They are a nation to be feared rather than encourage into world domination.,

[Baron von Lotsov]

The West was the child of Rome - we developed in imitation of and reaction against our forebear.  

Well to be exact it was the juxtaposition of the Christian school of thought with the classical one, and the classical one was both Rome and Greece. Certain Greek theories from Aristotle dogged science for centuries!

China developed quite differently, so the political and societal changes coming may be more drastic than those in the past.

Absolutely. Back in the days of the British Empire and the intellectuals of Europe, we just did not go there, so it was completely isolated from the West and grew in its own way. They did not even know what a market was prior to about the 70s & 80s time. Some had seen them on television.

 I'm glad that India, in some respects a grandchild of Rome, looks set to be its rival.  

India seemed to work out reasonably well. They gained a lot from our technology and were quite friendly. It was very much a win-win relationship except that India itself had its own problems with different religious factions, and they were violent. What the Chinese take from the lesson though was how when running an empire, you keep your empire happy, i.e. they are better off in than out (something the EU does not understand)

Though you identify the United Nations with Lucifer, Baron,

Very much so, in that it is the classic wolf in sheep's clothing. I see evil as like on a scale with different degrees of it, like Dante's Inferno, and at the very evil end the person will pretend to be your best friend and pretend to be a saint. A moderately evil person would be more honest and tell you what they will do unless you do this or that. One only has to study the formation of the UN and the politics of that time to see it is bogus. It's an American thing in that it was put together by money from American monopoly money, i.e. money illicitly gained by putting all your competitors out of business by force. There is much of this sort of thing in the West. Greenpeace is the same kind of thing. They want absolute control of everyone's lives. The Chinese prefer to run things in a far more hand's off way. They have far less laws and regulation, and this is a major reason why they are ahead.

your world peace would surely be served better with structures in place that can try to modify the will of the hegemonic power.  Is there a role for something along the lines of the UN, or would you trust entirely to the peaceful intentions of China?

We have tried that for a very long time and it never works. Our system is so riddled with corruption it is one giant highly complex, self-contradictory mess. I have written large complex computer programs which are the same sort of thing, where you are trying to control a complex environment and need your own structures to make it work, and it is well known some programs can be so chaotic in structure that it is more economic to ditch the entire lot and rebuild from scratch, and doing it with the lessons learnt where you went wrong before. This is the Chinese way, and it is dynamite. All the rules are minimalist, indeed contracts are and even mega ones like the BRI are kept simple and effective. They have understood minimalism.

[Barry]

"The future hegemony of China seems inevitable and will probably be as uncomfortable for much of the West as Rome, Britain and America were for those variously under their influence, their sway or their jackboot."



Ah but Rome was a military dictatorship where the emperors were murdered when the military had finished with them.  Rome was a very bad influence on the world in terms of the world trying to become peaceful. War was the standard as well back in Plato's time where in Plato's Republic every schoolboy must attend school to learn how to fight, amongst other things. I think this was linked to sport, so schools would keep the children fit so they were able to fight.



The Chinese on the otherhand have never invaded anyone, i.e. never started a war. They are of a different genetic type to the West, and in fact share the same genes as the Japanese. These genes are amongst the world's most intelligent as well. I agree their power will be inevitable, but I do not see any sign at all they wish the world harm. This is what their current leader says and what all the Chinese believe, as per they are solidly at one with their leader and love him, and see him as a man of great wisdom. It is wisdom that is the currency over there, not whether you look tough. As for America, the common Chinese view is something along the lines of mean, hypocritical, stupid, untrustworthy, short-sighted bloodthirsty and so on. However, their approach is interesting and it is very Christian. They do not wishthe amercan citizens harm and want to work with them and be their friends. They just want to put Uncle Sam and his military out of business so the bullets are no more.



 All guns and weapons are banned in China. You can't preach peace when you allow your own citizens to carry guns. America is still primitive. Primitive man fought like a wild beast. Look at the entire history of the ancient West and the violence is endemic. It rules us out as future world leaders. China gets the vote of many other countries who were once allies of America. The principle reason is the Chinese can be trusted to be peaceful. A vote for peace translates to a thumbs up to the Chinese government.

Oh dear. You really do have a love affair with China and its government and systems, don't you? They suppress people like us, who believe in the Bible.

As for your assertion that all guns and weapons are banned in China. That is not true either.

They need to have guns to suppress their own people.

https://jamestown.org/program/the-chinese-peoples-armed-police-in-a-time-of-armed-forces-restructuring/">//https://jamestown.org/program/the-chinese-peoples-armed-police-in-a-time-of-armed-forces-restructuring/

https://jamestown.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/PAP_soldiers__Source_China_News_.jpg">

[Baron von Lotsov]

"The future hegemony of China seems inevitable and will probably be as uncomfortable for much of the West as Rome, Britain and America were for those variously under their influence, their sway or their jackboot."



Ah but Rome was a military dictatorship where the emperors were murdered when the military had finished with them.  Rome was a very bad influence on the world in terms of the world trying to become peaceful. War was the standard as well back in Plato's time where in Plato's Republic every schoolboy must attend school to learn how to fight, amongst other things. I think this was linked to sport, so schools would keep the children fit so they were able to fight.



The Chinese on the otherhand have never invaded anyone, i.e. never started a war. They are of a different genetic type to the West, and in fact share the same genes as the Japanese. These genes are amongst the world's most intelligent as well. I agree their power will be inevitable, but I do not see any sign at all they wish the world harm. This is what their current leader says and what all the Chinese believe, as per they are solidly at one with their leader and love him, and see him as a man of great wisdom. It is wisdom that is the currency over there, not whether you look tough. As for America, the common Chinese view is something along the lines of mean, hypocritical, stupid, untrustworthy, short-sighted bloodthirsty and so on. However, their approach is interesting and it is very Christian. They do not wishthe amercan citizens harm and want to work with them and be their friends. They just want to put Uncle Sam and his military out of business so the bullets are no more.



 All guns and weapons are banned in China. You can't preach peace when you allow your own citizens to carry guns. America is still primitive. Primitive man fought like a wild beast. Look at the entire history of the ancient West and the violence is endemic. It rules us out as future world leaders. China gets the vote of many other countries who were once allies of America. The principle reason is the Chinese can be trusted to be peaceful. A vote for peace translates to a thumbs up to the Chinese government.

[Barry]

Will we ever see it and is it possible anyway?



....

It's a weird one that. I never saw it coming, but it has crystallised in my mind to the point I have no doubt things will have a happy ending. It kind of makes you think God is in control after all. The peacemakers will win, and this has shown itself to be time and time again in the past.

Now I'm puzzled, because many of the things you have written in the past suggest that you are a Bible believer. This idea that peace will win out is contrary to Biblical prophecy.



Daniel 9 says that war will continue until the end.

Matthew 24 says that there will be wars and rumours of wars.

Revelation 16 mentions the battle of Armageddon.



If you believe Bible prophecy, the end comes after wars and more wars.

[Paulus de B]

The balance of power, whether industrial, financial, cultural or political, has seen the West in general, and Britain and then America in particular, at the top for a couple of centuries.  Obviously that has been a good thing from the West's point of view; we'd need an alternative planet to run as control before we say whether the world as a whole could have done better with a different dispensation.  And for a while, it looked as though it might be permanent - Roman hegemony lasted for centuries, with its ecclesiastical power far outlasting its military power, and both Hitler and Churchill spoke of their empires lasting for a thousand years - but Pax Romana is one with Nineveh and Tyre, and Paxes Britannica and Americana are going the same way.  That makes some movements in history appear circular, which leads to the fault of historical determinism - the belief that we can read the future from the past - but history moves in circles and waves and particles (events).



The future hegemony of China seems inevitable and will probably be as uncomfortable for much of the West as Rome, Britain and America were for those variously under their influence, their sway or their jackboot. We'll be poorer in relative terms and possibly in absolute terms as well.  But what other effects will it have?  Will they be harder or softer as taskmasters, more or less respectful to their client states (potential colonies) than we were?



The West was the child of Rome - we developed in imitation of and reaction against our forebear.  China developed quite differently, so the political and societal changes coming may be more drastic than those in the past.  I'm glad that India, in some respects a grandchild of Rome, looks set to be its rival.  Though you identify the United Nations with Lucifer, Baron, your world peace would surely be served better with structures in place that can try to modify the will of the hegemonic power.  Is there a role for something along the lines of the UN, or would you trust entirely to the peaceful intentions of China?

[Baron von Lotsov]

Will we ever see it and is it possible anyway?



I have spend quite a bit of time recently looking at what China's world vision is, and going back a  few years I did the same with the American one. I looked at various groups, like the UN, the Bilderberg group, I looked through their history, I read secret plans, got probably more false information than truth, but saw the whole master plan as evil to the core. It just had to be the work of Satan, and it was no coincidence that many of these people were in one form or another devil worshipper. The fixation on death was uncanny.



Now moving on to the intervening years, it was a case of people thought China was dodgy, like it was communist, it cheated, ripped you off and every accusation under the sun. Little was from direct experience and the worst that stuck was the goods were cheap, unreliable and generally of poor quality. Little did these people think that perhaps the reason for that was they had little money and could only afford clapped out machines, but chances are, as they earnt more money from cheap products, they would get better machines, like it is crediting them with intelligence that the masses were unable to do.



So fast-forward 10 years to the now and things look radically different. They have overtaken America in nearly every important technology, and there is no chance they will stop at that. I believe that America has already lost but does not know it. It's like a computer program that will just run its course and the end of that will be that America is likely to go bankrupt and have to sell their arms. Those huge monopolies like Apple and Google are predicted to go bust. America will be out of the game by its own blind stupidity, and we will be left with China leading the world in all things.



 China's vision is world peace, and of course you would probably find it hard to believe, but no it is not if you learnt some of their history. China has always been a trader, not an invader. If America misbehaves with its guns, it is most likely China will take them away as one would a child messing with a gun. China's technology will be so far ahead of them that their latest fighter jets will be like Saddam's weaponry. It would be suicide.



I was chatting to a Chinaman about it tonight and he says the same, indeed they all do. China wants peace and prosperity throughout the world, as in a happy world, all having their own cultures and trading fairly to each other's advantage. It's an old idea and comes from the British Empire. OK our empire was not exactly a saint, but the basic philosophy was there and it was practised. China has copied us, but without the violence.



It's a weird one that. I never saw it coming, but it has crystallised in my mind to the point I have no doubt things will have a happy ending. It kind of makes you think God is in control after all. The peacemakers will win, and this has shown itself to be time and time again in the past. Americans can consign their plans for world domination to the Holywood studio, or do as Terry Riley suggested on the back of an album cover in 1969!! .