Margaret Thatcher split off topic

[Thomas]

The disaster that a no deal Brexit will be, Turkeys voted for Christmas.

If i had a pound for every time you have said "the latest disaster" about to hit the world is just round the corner , i would be a rich man.

Needless to say , you didnt predict the covid 19 pandemic( although you later claimed you did )and originally supported many aspects of brexit such as ending F.O .M , now you have a new ear to talk cac to  , you tell auld man "no deal brexit " is going to be a disaster.

Im sure you will of course be right about something someday lankou smurf , but that wont be because of any special insight to world affairs but merely luck and the law of averages.

[Thomas]

Well on the bright side, all those politicos who were saying you should question your sanity because you don't have a majority, should have been questioning their own sanity, but I bet they don't.

LABOUR certainly dont.

Still carping on about their antichrist blair , and hoping this latest jam tomorrow offering starmer is in his mold. They just dont get it , hence why i think they will be out of power for a long long time to come.

We are all grappling with todays problems while labour are still fighting the problems of the seventies and nineties.

[Sheepy]

Well on the bright side, all those politicos who were saying you should question your sanity because you don't have a majority, should have been questioning their own sanity, but I bet they don't.

[Thomas]

What has Boris sold the people who never vote Tory ,Quasi- Socialism? Looking at his pre-Covid spending plans it would appear so.  Thatcher just stuck at selling everything she could to any taker , including  a cut price house to the Labour vote.  The never vote Tory, is very often a Tory at heart, all it takes is the carrot.

Bollocks.

Johnson did something simple ...........that was realise the people in your country wanted brexit , so offered it to them , and they voted for him in their droves.

Feck all to do with quasi socialism.

Labour meanwhile said brexit is bad , you cant have it and pissed off the electorate in your country that much they recieved the biggest kicking in history , all under starmers anti brexit  directive.

Blair was a tosspot who happened to be in the right place at the right time in political history , took advantage of a weary tory government that had been in power for 17 years with his middle way , sold his red tory kid on socialism to his naive traditional labour voters while appealing to the small c tory middle england marginals.

Once his core vote had him sussed , he went on to lose millions of them , then eventually pissed off the small c tory voters in middle england after flooding their country with mass immigration , and the game was finally up and he knew it when broon took over.

I love tory blair. Biggest tosspot in history , but essential , along with thatcher , for the massive rise in scottish nationalism.

Many of the issues that plague the uk today from a status quoers point of view can be laid firmly at the mans door. They say blair was thatchers child , and in my opinion so too is farage blairs child. New labour were solely responsible for the rise in ukip/brexit party.

I hope your hero starmer is every bit a blairite as he seems to be......

[Good old]

What has Boris sold the people who never vote Tory ,Quasi- Socialism?

The disaster that a no deal Brexit will be, Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A lot of them thought Brexit should have been fully supported by the left. It was of course the big vote winner.

[papasmurf]

What has Boris sold the people who never vote Tory ,Quasi- Socialism?

The disaster that a no deal Brexit will be, Turkeys voted for Christmas.

[Good old]

And Scargill is hated more by the miners than Maggie I read somewhere.

Both these people divided opinion sharply. Scargill was loved by some miners and hated by others, just as Thatcher was hated by some voters and loved by others.



Just as Blair's New Labour sold quasi-Toryism to people who would never, ever vote Conservative, Thatcher sold regressive ideas as 'progress'.

What has Boris sold the people who never vote Tory ,Quasi- Socialism? Looking at his pre-Covid spending plans it would appear so.  Thatcher just stuck at selling everything she could to any taker , including  a cut price house to the Labour vote.  The never vote Tory, is very often a Tory at heart, all it takes is the carrot.

[srb7677]

No one like Maggie Thatcher, apart from the electorate that voted her into office at three general elections.

Only a minority of it. She was hated by just as many

[Borchester]

No one like Maggie Thatcher, apart from the electorate that voted her into office at three general elections.

[srb7677]

it was only after they were forced out by lesser beings that narratives changed to give them both horns and tails...

For me, Thatcher had horns and tails from the very start, from the moment I became politically aware early in her premiership. The damage she was doing to our society was obvious to me even then.

Blair I had misgivings about from very early on too, but my support for Labour died slowly because such loss of faith was a wrench. But within five years I was voting for other parties.

[patman post]

There's no denying Margaret Thatcher was a strong leader with a conviction that her vision for the future of Britain was the right one. It turns out that she was wrong and we're still living with the unintended consequences of her misguided policies.

Just as Blair's New Labour sold quasi-Toryism to people who would never, ever vote Conservative, Thatcher sold regressive ideas as 'progress'.

Seems a populist cop out. Maggie saw the age of belching CO2 and metal bashing would be replaced by more advanced technology and began the process. She was correct, but she had few of similar strength around to guide her. Blair was doing OK, and giving most of the UK a comfortable time, until he got seduced by God and George W, and pushed off track by the pique of Gordon Brown.
Both Maggie and Tony enjoyed years of substantial electorate support — it was only after they were forced out by lesser beings that narratives changed to give them both horns and tails...

[HDQQ]

And Scargill is hated more by the miners than Maggie I read somewhere.

Both these people divided opinion sharply. Scargill was loved by some miners and hated by others, just as Thatcher was hated by some voters and loved by others.

There's no denying Margaret Thatcher was a strong leader with a conviction that her vision for the future of Britain was the right one. It turns out that she was wrong and we're still living with the unintended consequences of her misguided policies.

Just as Blair's New Labour sold quasi-Toryism to people who would never, ever vote Conservative, Thatcher sold regressive ideas as 'progress'.

[patman post]

Other than that I certainly lost all faith in labour wouldn't trust them to do the right thing,and as I've said a few times the tories are devious b'stards but at least they advertise the fact,lib dims and labour project a caring sharing society that means they see they get more than their fair share.

I could have believed in New Labour before Tony Blair lost his bearings. Now, even though Labour seems more honest than under Corbyn, it doesn't appeal. This leaves me in a quandary — I'm naturally a believer in free enterprise and the Conservatives. But I don't trust Boris. He was great as the popular figurehead of London — where others did the nitty gritty and there were boundaries to his actions — but that doesn't work for country. The trouble is nobody in any party is an obvious replacement...

[srb7677]

Well apparently Nigel Farage has left Britain and so has Tommy Robinson, so if rabid Brexiteers are leaving the sinking ship, it must  time to be afraid, very afraid.

Rats leaving the sinking ship?

Having themselves contributed to gnawing the holes in it's hull?

[srb7677]

Well what with pandemics and everything else TBH I've had enough of arguments,politicians,people getting the hump over nowt,having no sense of humour,imagining they know what you're thinking so if I win I'll have to trust that you'll stick a few quid in a suitable charity box.

To be honest there are times when I weary of it all. Internal Labour party politics on it's own can be most dispiriting at times, let alone the wider picture. But I can remember our £20 bet, and would just need to know your chosen charity (have forgotten) when you win.

Other than that I certainly lost all faith in labour wouldn't trust them to do the right thing

I myself lost faith in Labour totally during the New Labour years, and it was only the rediscovery of a genuinely left leaning alternative with truly progressive, yet actually fairly moderate, policies that won me round and resulted in me joining the party. The party of the last few years has been vastly different and far more authentic and honest, than what went before, though also the subject of endless smears, often with our own party's right wing malcontents complicit and constantly plotting as they waged factional war. And I currently fear that the party is morphing into something I struggle to trust again. I know from personal circumstances that even our local party is full of Blairite careerists who are not really in it for the people. It is all about power politics games for them. And they feel they are back in control, so I despair somewhat but am waiting to see. Leaving the party is not something I am going to do lightly, especially since the left is getting organised.

One thing I will say. Our policies were often presented as extreme by opponents but that was nonsense. They were actually in the political mainstream of pre-Blair years, and were notably far more moderate than anything Labour came up with in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. This notion that it was all "extreme" left was nonsense. And on a policy by policy level, most of those policies were very popular. I fear the current leadership might learn the wrong lessons and throw the baby out with the bathwater again.

and as I've said a few times the tories are devious b'stards but at least they advertise the fact

It is indeed difficult to hide.

lib dims and labour project a caring sharing society that means they see they get more than their fair share.

I am indeed no friend of the Lib Dems after the Great Betrayal of 2010. They are controlled by a right leaning, Tory-favouring, clique in spite of having many left leaning members. Government revealed them not to be the nice people they tried to portray themselves as. They were prepared to facilitate an awful lot of nasty shite.

As for Labour, it really is two parties in one fighting like cats in a sack. The left are the genuinely caring ones for the most part, certainly in my experience. The Blairites tend to be careerists pursuing power for it's own sake. There is no principle they would not abandon, no value they would not pervert, for the keys of office. Where they miscalculate though is that many more people see through them than did so a couple of decades ago. Labour needs to be a moral and ethical crusade - on the side of truth and justice and a fair deal for the struggling millions - or it is nothing. We on the moderate left represented that yet were continually misrepresented as extremists. Furthermore, many out there make no distinction between us and the Blairite careerists, and thus to some extent we are all tarred with the same brush. The Blairites blackened our party's name when it comes to values. I fear we could be taking their path again, but the jury is still out for me on that one.