Met caught out targetting Black drivers..?

[patman post]

Although this thread has gone well away from the subject in the title and the opening post, it now seems to have begun to touch on problems and solutions.
Black Lives Matter is a campaign that has attracted support (and some animosity and deliberate misinformation) across society.
Associated calls by BLM sympathisers to defund the police and prison system are not calling for every prison to close by the end of the week and every police officer to be fired soon after. They argue that the continued expansion of policing and prisons over the last three or four decades has seen no improvement in public safety.
Their call is to divert funds towards finding more successful constructive alternatives and away from the current increasing expensive ineffective attempts to "police away" the UK's social problems...

[Thomas]

You keep trying to paint yourself as the "moderate left" , but then the mask keeps slipping with references to blairite scum , thatcherite policies or calling moderate northern nelgish folk like deppity dawg "a right winger" , a guy who is a working class council estate born and bred former labour voter like myself

I think that's labours biggest problem now. And liberal orthodoxy in general. That I'm described as "right wing" when people like me once upon a time were middle ground party supporters shows that it isn't me that's moved, it's the party that has lurched left,.so that once traditional values like wanting  law and order (which we are discussing here) are now considered the realms of "right wing" thinking

Part of BLMs.message is defunding/diluting the police - this was never a policy any sensible labour voter would have endorsed 30 years ago, or any of its leaders would dared have supported, even tacitly. Yet no current senior labour politician, it's media backing or it's so called supporter's will dare be critical of BLM or call out t's destructive agenda

Good post again.

I remember SRB from our old forum many years ago.

He was generally socialist , mild mannered , could take criticism and often discussed policy difference between labour and tory with conservatives such as major sinic in a polite manner , and although he disliked extremely the likes of our old friend "badfellow" , and was generally dismayed by the blairites , i dont recall him using terminology like scum to describe them.

So his tone has changed dramatically.

Screaming nasty nationalists , calling moderate centrist english "right wingers" for rejecting corbynism , willfully ignoring anti semitism in his party or dismissing it when forced to confront it , and all the rest isnt the mark of a moderate.

.....and as you say , it all fits in with what we are seeing generally with groups like momentum in labour and black lives matter. Hard left bigots masquerading as "moderates" to force their zany beliefs on the rest of us at all cost.

Part of BLMs.message is defunding/diluting the police - this was never a policy any sensible labour voter would have endorsed 30 years ago, or any of its leaders would dared have supported, even tacitly. Yet no current senior labour politician, it's media backing or it's so called supporter's will dare be critical of BLM or call out t's destructive agenda

Exactly.

As borkie says earlier , i think starmer is being extremely quiet because he must get up every morning  facepalming wondering what the latest headline is going to be regarding the nutjobs in his party. They cant say a single thing criticism except try and distance themselves from these groups i ncase the angry left wing mobs turn on him and clowns like dawn butler start screaming racist.

...but while SRB points out in his delusional world the popularity of corbynista politics and the hard "moderate " left policy , what other evidence do we need to show of how bad the people think hard left labour have become?

Here in scotland , it was only last year we were hearing how donations to corbynista labour had dried up.........

Scottish Labour sinks into the red as donations dry up
Donations in 2018 declined by 77 per cent compared with the year before

http://archive.is/HtyhW

and after the mass clearout of labour that i was talking abour earlier by the hard left mometum corbynistas in scotland , the party shed a fifth of its scottish membership in a matter of months...

Blow for Richard Leonard as leak reveals 5,000 Labour membership slump across Scotland

RICHARD Leonard is under pressure as Scottish Labour leader after a leak revealed his party's membership figures had fallen in every local area.
Labour has lost nearly 5,000 members over the last twelve months across all 73 local parties, a nosedive of around 20%.
In Eastwood, a constituency with a sizeable Jewish population, membership figures have slumped by nearly 40%.
Sources have cited the party's handling of antisemitism allegations,

http://archive.is/f3tXg

Again on the doorstep , we were hearing how antisemtism , the corbyn leadership , brexit policy and general dismay of the infiltration and take over of the party by the hard left had left the scottish voter in utter disgust.

All of which SRB denies or trys to twist.

The facts are there for all to see.

It was that bad mate , at the labour party conference theyhad to give away free passes to try and fill conference seats.

Scottish Labour gives free passes 'to fill conference

Scottish Labour is offering free passes to new supporters, pensioners, the unemployed and "youth members" in an effort to "fill out" its annual conference.

The party has lost nearly 5,000 members over the past year, or about 20 per cent. Its annual three-day conference north of the border, which will feature speeches by Jeremy Corbyn and Richard Leonard, the Scottish leader, takes place in three weeks' time in Dundee.

Nothing to see here SRB tells us , we are just the new SNP ( lmfao) , we just want scotland to remain in the uk. blah blah feckin blah.

These animals dont realise how badly they are detested by the ordinary voting public.

Corbyn might be gone , but you can clearly see they are waiting to stab starmer in the back and get the next hard left cult figure in place.

Next up , SRB tells the northern english , we are the new UKIP/brexit party , we just have a remain in europe policy.

They will say anything to get a whiff of power .

[Good old]

You keep trying to paint yourself as the "moderate left" , but then the mask keeps slipping with references to blairite scum , thatcherite policies or calling moderate northern nelgish folk like deppity dawg "a right winger" , a guy who is a working class council estate born and bred former labour voter like myself

I think that's labours biggest problem now. And liberal orthodoxy in general. That I'm described as "right wing" when people like me once upon a time were middle ground party supporters shows that it isn't me that's moved, it's the party that has lurched left,.so that once traditional values like wanting  law and order (which we are discussing here) are now considered the realms of "right wing" thinking

Part of BLMs.message is defunding/diluting the police - this was never a policy any sensible labour voter would have endorsed 30 years ago, or any of its leaders would dared have supported, even tacitly. Yet no current senior labour politician, it's media backing or it's so called supporter's will dare be critical of BLM or call out t's destructive agenda

The Tories have learned to not go into convulsions of guilt  if they utilise what would once have been socialist territory . If the left can not do the same in reverse they wast their time
When it comes to law and order, both Blue , and Red, have questions to answer. Don't forget the Tory administration has cut into Police , and legal budgets , to such a degree , that Police numbers are depleted, to such an extent they have difficulty handling the odd rave. courts now cut corners , for financial reasons ,at an alarming rate. And Prisons remain under maned  and poorly trained in the staff areas,. And all of this from a party that built a reputation on maintaining law and order at any cost.
My beef is. No matter what we think we are politically, why have we allowed this state of affairs  to come about.? It really is a case of fucked if you do, fucked if you don't.

[DeppityDawg]

You keep trying to paint yourself as the "moderate left" , but then the mask keeps slipping with references to blairite scum , thatcherite policies or calling moderate northern nelgish folk like deppity dawg "a right winger" , a guy who is a working class council estate born and bred former labour voter like myself

I think that's labours biggest problem now. And liberal orthodoxy in general. That I'm described as "right wing" when people like me once upon a time were middle ground party supporters shows that it isn't me that's moved, it's the party that has lurched left,.so that once traditional values like wanting  law and order (which we are discussing here) are now considered the realms of "right wing" thinking

Part of BLMs.message is defunding/diluting the police - this was never a policy any sensible labour voter would have endorsed 30 years ago, or any of its leaders would dared have supported, even tacitly. Yet no current senior labour politician, it's media backing or it's so called supporter's will dare be critical of BLM or call out t's destructive agenda

[Sheepy]

Well it does come to something, when a few million angry chavs don't want to vote for you either and they are angry 24 hours a day.

[Borchester]

Voters in the UK seem basically conservative (small c) and reactionary, and appear not to fancy the upheaval that Socialism promises. That's why in the post war years they've chosen between Conservative and traditional Labour — they feel safer than with either the Hard Right or Hard Left.

That is right and why Tony Blair/Gordon Brown's slightly left of centre governments were in power from 1997 to 2010 and Worzel's dream of getting on his bike, riding through the docks shouting "They are all out in the Royals!" and thereby bringing the nation out on strike did not work to well in 2019

Today's idealistic young are currently suffering the examination shambles, and are likely to be voting in the next general election.

And when they do a lot of them will have twigged that the best folk to run their lives are themselves which won't do much for the Labour party vote

Unless the Tories get to look like they're actually in control, and if Labour begin to look confident in the middle ground, the Tories might just get a bloody nose — and so might Johnson, him sooner than we think...

So far Keir Starmer has not said much of anything because the Tories have yet to really piss the electorate off. Boris leads a reasonably united party and has the advantage that he is a ruthless bastard who will crush any disloyalty without a second thought. Starmer should have given Dawn Butler a bollocking and a diet plan, but he didn't because the Labour party is so disunited that he can not get it to agree on the Christmas lunch menu, let alone anything else.

[Thomas]

And yes we lost in 2017. But the evidence I pointed out to you regarding the popularity of our policies at the time -

you keep trying to cherry pick a point in history , while ignoring the latest election only last decemebr where your alleged popualr policies got you no where like 2017.

Keep bleating about 2017 all you like , you lost then , you lost 2019 , and you will lose again next time.

You are misrepresenting something moderate and popular as extreme, some of it stuff already implemented in Scotland by your own f**king SNP, .

well you will have to tell us which policies you were copying.

I mean imagine not being able to think up your own and then  trying to take credit for ours?

Yoiu are all over the place with the snp. For years , long before the days of blair and brown , the likes of galloway and many others were calling the snp the tartan tories. Even in  recent elections some in labour said this.

Now when convenient , you highlight the snp as an example of "hard left" policy when it suits.

As i always say the snp can be anything labour want them to be......as long as it suits their argument.

....but it didnt stop hard left labour ( it woz the blairites that done it ....no laughing at the back please) opposing every single snp policy when it suited in the scottish parliament that you now try and take credit for.

[Thomas]

I am neither momementum nor hard left. Neither is most of the party hard left. That is a pejorative and false label beloved of the right. Nor do I personally have anything to do with momentum, though you dishonestly insist otherwise in spite of having been told it is untrue. Which is wilfully dishonest of you and makes you a liar in my book.

And yes we lost in 2017. But the evidence I pointed out to you regarding the popularity of our policies at the time - which were anything but hard left and actually pretty moderate - clearly demonstrates that these were not the reason we lost. This is logically obvious in view of the evidence. Far from being hard left, those policies were in the social democratic mainstream pre-Blair. According to David Owen they were even less left wing than his SDP.

You are misrepresenting something moderate and popular as extreme, some of it stuff already implemented in Scotland by your own f**king SNP, .

So you keep saying.

You are constantly trying and failing to misrepresent the hard left momentum in the labour party as "moderate" , while screeching anyone else who doesnt follow the zealot line as "right wing blairites".

We know in scotland many ordinary moderate members , and some higher ranking politicians , who didnt tow the momentum zealot line were hounded out of the party by you "moderates."

So dont make me feckin laugh. There was nothing "moderate" about the cult like figures who put corbyn into power.

Mollie collins , the hard left momemtum anti semite in dorset was a classice example of the filth that has come to infest the labour party with its bile and sickness.

There is nothing moderate you.

...and when anyone points this out , we are accussed of being right wingers ( like you did deppity dawg on here yesterday).

[srb7677]

I am neither momementum nor hard left. Neither is most of the party hard left. That is a pejorative and false label beloved of the right. Nor do I personally have anything to do with momentum, though you dishonestly insist otherwise in spite of having been told it is untrue. Which is wilfully dishonest of you and makes you a liar in my book.

And yes we lost in 2017. But the evidence I pointed out to you regarding the popularity of our policies at the time - which were anything but hard left and actually pretty moderate - clearly demonstrates that these were not the reason we lost. This is logically obvious in view of the evidence. Far from being hard left, those policies were in the social democratic mainstream pre-Blair. According to David Owen they were even less left wing than his SDP.

You are misrepresenting something moderate and popular as extreme, some of it stuff already implemented in Scotland by your own fucking SNP, .

[Thomas]

Read it and weep Thomas, the evidence is there.

you keep waffling on about 2017. You didint  win in 2017 , despite facing the worst tory pm and campaign in political history.

Then when i point out the abvious of what happened in 2019 , you deflect by muttering about blairites brexit and all other manner of lame excuses. What excuse will you give next time till it dawns the voting public dont want momemtum and hard left labour.

The simple fact i keep repeating to you is the voting public didnt like corbyn , didnt trust him or your hard left faction , and thought your policy was pie in the sky wishlist that further down the line would have bankrupted both england and scotland .

Every article we read on raking over the coals of hard labours disasterous defeat shows exactly the traits you display on this thread......mass delusion , denial , and a determination to carry on where you left off .

I think it great to be honest.

[Thomas]

We were not "hard" left at all, merely left. Democratic socialists and social democrats. That is just another risible misrepresentation beloved of the right and of Blairites.

ahh yes moderate momentum. Zealots always try and put a "moderate" face on their behaviour .

You can bleat all you want , but the ordinary voter see through all your lame excuses , and gave "moderate hard left labour" a right kicking.

The way you talk about people in your own feckin party is absolutely disgusting for not towing your zealot line and cobynista principles of the hard left.

You mere democratic socialists hounded out every single blairite mp or supporter you could from your party along with many jewish ones.

Aye a very tolerant group of moderates.

[Thomas]

What a load of shite.

read the poll. Much of the polling , and the article came from your own former labour supporters .

No one wants you hard left zealots anywhere near government.

[Thomas]

Much of which has already been implemented in Scotland by your beloved SNP. Pie in the sky? Lmfao

The labour party either opposed for opposition sake , or abstained on pracically every single policy the snp brought in at holyrood. So what are you talking about?

Its that bad listening to you try and take the credit for snp policy while you dont even realise labours position in scotland of moaning about evey single thing the snp did its almost laughable.

Corbyn was that much of a muppet , he came up to scotland and announced to the waiting press his grand new labour party policy for us jocks.........nationalising the water industry.

Till someone took him quietly to the side and had to explain to him scottish water , with the exception of a small part of which labour privatised  for business use , was already antionalised.

So yes pie in the sky. Labour party over promised , under deliver , and over tax and spend , and that is what the english people  , same as  us , found pie in the sky.........

You can't be trusted in government.

[srb7677]

In 2019 we over-promised. Free broadband was a promise too far and the promise to compensate the Waspi women was wholly uncosted.

But here is the evidence of the popularity of our 2017 policies....

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-huge-public-support-for-jeremy-corbyns-manifesto-promises-2017-5?r=US&IR=T

Note that 71% favoured banning zero hours contracts, only 16% opposed.

65% favoured modest tax increases on earnings above £80k, only 23% opposed.

54% favoured ramping up council house construction and mandating local authorities to do it, only 24% opposed.

52% favoured nationalising the railways and only 22% opposed.

And so on.

Read it and weep Thomas, the evidence is there.

You can sing your Blairite tunes all you like, bagpipes at the ready. But it doesn't convince.

You hate the Blairites yet you agree with them. Confused indeed.

[srb7677]

idiotic pie in the sky policy.

Much of which has already been implemented in Scotland by your beloved SNP. Pie in the sky? Lmfao