Met caught out targetting Black drivers..?

[Sheepy]

I posted evidence which clearly revealed that 18% - or 38% depending upon which measure you used - of the British people harbour racist views.

Does that work both ways or is this another one of those political one way streets?

[DeppityDawg]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8654727/Police-filming-incidents-mobile-phones-refute-claims-racism-online.html

Meanwhile back in the real world...following the Dawn Butler bullshit...

Police officers are privately recording incidents on their personal mobile phones so they can refute claims of racism or sexism that are posted on social media

Sir Steve House, the Met's Deputy Commissioner, condemned the resulting 'trial by social media' and said his officers acted 'professionally and politely'.

However, the officers involved are said to feel 'let down by management' because footage from cameras mounted on their uniforms has not been released.

'Can it be fair that anyone can take a video of my colleagues and publish it instantly without asking them and they have to live with that?' asked Mr Marsh.

'So why on earth can we not do the same? If we had been able to share the body-worn camera with the public immediately, we wouldn't have this problem.'

[srb7677]

It s hard to say that  what momentum mollie collins wrote was an exaggeration of anti semitism , but you ignored it anyway.

I am not going to defend an antisemite. If what she is accused of saying and thinking is true after due process she needs to be expelled. But innocent until proven guilty, eh?

I have not commented before simply because I have never denied that a small number of anti-semites have made it into our ranks and these need to be dealt with. What I have repeatedly said is that a tiny number of examples in no way demonstrates that the problem is rife, and my own experience tends to suggest that it is grossly exaggerated, motivated by dubious political motives on the part of those wishing to use the issue as a stick to beat the left with.

It is worth reminding you that it wasn't the Tories or the Labour right that stood shoulder to shoulder with the Jews against the anti-semitic fascist scum led by Mosley at Cable Street in the 30s. It was we on the left. Because when it comes down to it, most of us will not stand for racism of any kind. And we will not trade in that principle in pursuit of power. Because whilst we want power, we want it with principles.

[srb7677]

Ex  scottish labour leader made it very clear you couldnt trust labour with corbyn and hard left momentum at the helm....

Kezia Dugdale was just another frigging Blairite. What else would you expect? Lmfao.

Curious to see that you are rushing to the defence of Blairites in order to attack me,

[papasmurf]

I posted evidence which clearly revealed that 18% - or 38% depending upon which measure you used - of the British people harbour racist views.

Personally I am surprised it is that low.

[srb7677]

Labours sole scottish mp ian murray talked repeatedly over the years of the purge of the moderates in scottish labour by hard left momemtum...

Such claims have often been exaggerated, unfortunately, by such as he, an incorrigible Blairite. I wish they were true. The Blairites sought to undermine their own party at every stage because they opposed the leadership, briefing in the right wing press, spreading malicious bullshit, constantly plotting. We on the left should have fought against these soft Thatcherite scum much more robustly.

And what a sorry state of affairs. You are now reduced to defending the Blairite Ian Murray against me, when we both know Scots rejected everything Blair stands for.

The so called "hard left" of my party that you so deride (you don't know what the real hard left is, clearly) were guilty of the terrible crime in your eyes of wanting to implement moderately socialist policies throughout the UK of a kind already implemented by the SNP in Scotland. So how come it's ok for you guys but suddenly "hard left" when it's us?

I am coming to the conclusion that you are just another angry Scot whose anger is blinding you to reason. Hate me all you want, but I am not your enemy. I will not stand in the way of your precious indyref. Your enemies on that score are the Blairites - happy to jump into bed with the Tories against you - and the Tories themselves.

[Thomas]

I posted evidence which clearly revealed that 18% - or 38% depending upon which measure you used - of the British people harbour racist views.

No you didnt.

You posted a polling sample where 18 % of a thousand people agreed with what could be contrued as a racist statement. We have been over this and your other ambiguous question from the same poll dressed up as racism many a time.

While you desperately cling to some silly poll as evidence of the racist uk , you ignore my counter polling taken by the eu that showd the uk the least racist country in europe , and you ignore evidence thorugh the thread of anti semitsm in your own party.

And I have explained why I believe that anti-semitism in Labour is being grossly exaggerated,

It s hard to say that  what momentum mollie collins wrote was an exaggeration of anti semitism , but you ignored it anyway.

For that they will happily throw the Palestinians under a bus. We on the left will not.

Ah the infamous labour international solidarity , except when it comes to countries like scotland lmfao.

I would worryabout what your own country thinks about you than some foreign country first , you appear to be putting the cart before the horse.

Start by clearing out the disgusting anti semites in your party before pontificating to the rest of us.

[Thomas]

Labours sole scottish mp ian murray talked repeatedly over the years of the purge of the moderates in scottish labour by hard left momemtum...

Ian Murray, MP for Edinburgh South and a long-standing Corbyn critic, tweeted: "The purge of good, capable and committed people goes on merely for standing up for what they believe in.

http://archive.is/iSj4U

just like anti semtism , im sure you will deny its existence , or claim it was all a big conspiracy to keep wurzel out of power.

Mr Sarwar and Ms Baillie are seen as centrist members of a Scottish party that has seen a widening split between Mr Leonard's left-wing allies and the more moderate parliamentarians.
The demotion of Mr Sarwar and Ms Baillie, who have been regarded as two of Scottish Labour's best performing frontbenchers, was described as "sad" by Edinburgh South MP Ian Murray.

http://archive.is/xS1Dv

Ex  scottish labour leader made it very clear you couldnt trust labour with corbyn and hard left momentum at the helm....

[srb7677]

I think your narrative over the course of debate is clear for all to see. Insinuating racism is a major problem in uk society , without much proof , which by itself is a slur against the majority of people in the uk  , while ignoring the very real anti semitic prejudice in your own party.

I posted evidence which clearly revealed that 18% - or 38% depending upon which measure you used - of the British people harbour racist views. This is a large minority, not a frigging majority, so it is not a slur against the majority of people in the UK, you dishonest piece of work. And I have explained why I believe that anti-semitism in Labour is being grossly exaggerated, notwithstanding a few egregious examples. Neither I nor my comrades have ever seen or heard any genuine examples of it. I should have thought we would have if it were rife. Labour has always been an anti-racist party - and that is one thing that unites both the left and the Blairites. We have also, however, always been a party that stands against oppression - which is the whole problem where Israel is concerned. The Blairites as ever are more prepared to water down such principles in pursuit of power. For that they will happily throw the Palestinians under a bus. We on the left will not.

[Thomas]

And incidentally I am not and never have been a member of momentum though I know comrades who are. Many of these have long ben unhappy with it's top down undemocratic structure. Hence the formation of a new grouping called the Labour Left Alliance, which I am a member of. And neither I nor most of my party comrades are "hard left". That is just another intellectually deficient yet also lazy and politically motivated slur. If you think we are hard left you have no fecking clue what the hard left is.

Deny away all you like , but i think most people are very clear about who corbyns support in labour came from. You deny being part of momentum , but you consistently make the distinction between yourself and corbyn supporting friends , and the blairites in your party who you revile. A clear dividing line and and you have made no secret of where you stand on it.

The hard left momemtum zealots are loathed by all and sundry. We have seen their behviour in scotland , and read about it elsewhere , as they attempted to clear all the moderates out of labour  , and replace them with the hard left momemtum scum.

Anas sarwar , and many others in scottish labour commented it time and again over the last five years or so , and talked about the head hunting of moderate labour people by the hard left zealots in the party.

your answer? No doubt its all "the blairites scums fault".

The tone of your language gives it all away , and as they say , blind faith is the death of reason.

[Thomas]

You are a liar. I never said the majority of British people were racists. I said a substantial minority. Massive difference. And I - scum as you clearly call me - have not labelled you in any kind of derogatory way. The people I am calling traitors are not members of this forum. You insulted me directly.

Go bury your head in a bucket of shite. I'm not interested anymore.

I think your narrative over the course of debate is clear for all to see. Insinuating racism is a major problem in uk society , without much proof , which by itself is a slur against the majority of people in the uk  , while ignoring the very real anti semitic prejudice in your own party.

Of course you arent interested anymore. No one wants to read the bile spewed by disgusting labour momentum creatures like mollie collins.

This is the difference between back slapping the local momentum idiots in the echo chamber down the pub in plymouth , and debating those outside your bubble on the interwebby forums .

I keep pointing out , maybe you need to sit back and reflect why you are so out of touch with people and why your party is out of power and will be for the forseeable.

You talk , you never ever listen.

...and its a major problem for labour.

[srb7677]

When you arent making slurs against the majority of people across the uk by insinuating they are racists , you sneer at posts and call others "traitors".

You are a liar. I never said the majority of British people were racists. I said a substantial minority. Massive difference. And I - scum as you clearly call me - had never labelled you in any kind of derogatory way. I call you a liar now because whether through misunderstanding or malice you have blatantly lied about what I have said. The people I am calling traitors are not members of this forum. You insulted me directly by calling me personally as well as my comrades scum.

And incidentally I am not and never have been a member of momentum though I know comrades who are. Many of these have long been unhappy with it's top down undemocratic structure. Hence the formation of a new grouping called the Labour Left Alliance, which I am a member of. And neither I nor most of my party comrades are "hard left". That is just another intellectually deficient yet also lazy and politically motivated slur. If you think we are hard left you have no fecking clue what the hard left is.

And yes - since you have repeatedly referenced it now - there is a vast difference internally within the party between the Blairites and the left. We are only in the same frigging party because FPTP forces us to be or die. You say the Blairites are doing more against anti-semitism in the party. That's because they are happy to conflate legitimate criticism of Israel or Zionist ideology with anti-semitism as a means of taking down the left, and are generally less interested in Israeli oppression of the Palestinians than in winning over the pro-Israel lobby. So guilty until proven innocent in that cause can now be the order of the day.

I see myself as a genuine true Labour guy on the democratic left, opposed to most of what the Blairites stand for. So yes I genuinely believe we are - in simplistic terms - the good guys. We saw Blairism in action for 13 years and much of it was a continuation of Tory bullshit which I opposed. I was not a member of the party at the time and wouldn't even vote for it. I find myself questioning my continued membership of it now, though many of us on the left know that leaving is exactly what the Blairites want us to do and think it better to stay and fight.

And you haven't read the leaked report in full or even at all have you?

Go bury your head in a bucket of shite.

[Thomas]

It said: "The very idea that the Germans organised and executed a complex conspiracy involving 'homicidal gas chambers' and other barbaric, sadistic forms of mass murder designed to exterminate European Jewry during WWII is laughable on its face when you stop and objectively think about it."

The article claimed that inmates of Nazi concentration camps had been "well-cared for...well-fed, well-provided for", with access to "medical treatment and entertainment". Prisoners were allowed to "attend concerts, organise plays, make music and play sports", it wrongly alleged.

The article also quoted approvingly from Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf, saying the Nazi leader had offered "profound insights" about Jewish people.

Other posts shared by Ms Collins focused on the Rothschild banking dynasty, which is one of the most common subjects of antisemitic conspiracy theories.

Labour party were unable to comment......

[Thomas]

  They were far more focussed upon fighting a factional war on behalf of the Blairites, even to the extent of sabotaging the electoral prospects of the party that paid them

This constant pitifull excuse is wearing very thin indeed now.

Everyone knows about the infighting in labour.

....but all your rhetoric seems to suggest that all that is good in labour is the corbyn/mometum side , and all that is bad is blarite starmer side.

The fact of the matter is  , when we get right down to it , corbyn momentum did very little about the mass explosion of rife anti semtism in the five years you were in charge of labour while it was the blairites under starmer who have attemtped to do something about it.

It wasnt the blairites fault momentum member mollie collins in south dorset was an out and out anti semite and holocause denier. Was it?

This lays full and squarely at your momemtum door.

A Labour regional board member has been suspended by the party after appearing to promote Holocaust denial.

Mollie Collins, who sits on the party's executive board in the southwest and was chair of South Dorset Labour Party until last month, shared an article on Facebook that suggested the Nazi murder of six million Jews was a "lie".

She also posted a number of articles and videos about the Rothschild family, which were based heavily on antisemitic conspiracy theories.

The Independent understands that she has been suspended by the party pending an investigation.

Ms Collins, who unsuccessfully stood as a Labour council candidate in May, shared an article in 2016 titled "The Realist Report: How the 'Holocaust' was faked".

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-holocaust-antisemitism-board-members-jeremy-corbyn-a9070976.html

Ms Collins, who unsuccessfully stood as a Labour council candidate in May, shared an article in 2016 titled "The Realist Report: How the 'Holocaust' was faked".

The post, which has since been deleted, linked to an article claiming that the death of six million Jews at the hands of the Nazis was "laughable" and "the biggest lie ever foisted upon humanity".

Labour the party that champions the fight against prejudice...........except when its in their own party.

Dont make me feckin laugh.

[Thomas]

If that is what you think of me then clearly you are not the reasonable and decent chap I mistook you for, with whom I thought it was possible to disagree respectfully. But apparently now I am scum because I disagree with you and have the temerity to believe antisemitism in Labour - whilst real and ugly for a tiny percentage - has been weaponised and exaggerated, but also believe a large minority of the general public harbour racist views, and I presented evidence for the latter.

The fact that I and most others I know have witnessed numerous racist incidents, yet have never witnessed anti-semitism in the party is telling to me. The former is substantial anecdotal backing for my suspicions as to the widespread nature of racism. We have seen and heard it with our own eyes and ears. The latter though - supposedly rife in my party - is not something any of us have ever witnessed, suggesting to me that the extent of it is grossly exaggerated. And pointing to a few genuine examples in no way disproves the general point about it being a numerically small problem grossly exaggerated, which my experience actually inside the party leads me to suspect.

Yet because I genuinely believe in these things with an honest heart, you call me scum. Which is itself beneath contempt and signposts you to me as someone incapable of honest and respectful disagreement when your blood is up.

Which is a shame because I thought you were better than that.

Sorry but this is a nonsense post.

Emotive guff.

Look at your own language throughout the course of this and other threads. When you arent making slurs against the majority of people across the uk by insinuating they are racists , you sneer at posts and call others "traitors".

I can be as decent or difficult as the next guy. This is a debating forum talking politics , not friends reunited.

I believe the labour party are duplicitous scum. I have posted many reasons why i believe this over the years , and linked to many examples.

Your one sided view of alleged pjejudice in the wider community  , while ignoring that very same prejudice in your beloved labour party shows there is very little reasonable about you when we get right down to it.

You are a momentum zealot , and the public have shown you at the ballot box numerous times now since 2015 what they think of momentum labour , which is why you are out of power and will remain so . Do you seriously think the way back to power for the labour party is to ignore your own very real failings and prejudice in the party and slur the public at  large by calling them racist and fools for voting brexit?

Traitors to the party that employed them in many cases.

See this is a clear example of your illogical thinking. You berate me for my language and being unreasonable , while ignoring the tone of your own language.

On top of that , one minute you want to champion the crusade against alleged prejudice in the wider community , but when people in your own party speak out against what they have seen , your party attempts to silence them , buys them off while you call them traitors!

Unbelievable.