Why Labour lost.

[Thomas]

I think you're right..he's just hopelessly confused and lashing out in any which direction.

My political views have remained consistent for years dyno , while yours are all over the place ,and you dont know the difference between england and britian.

In chilled , got the popcorn out and im sitting back watching you on the brit left go into meltdown becuase hard brexit is only 17 weeks away.

[Thomas]

You are talking shit right there. I am British and left. And I am not unionist to the core. .

No you are talking shite right there .

If you self ID as british , britain is your country ( colloquial for uk) and self evidently you dont want scotland to leave. ( scotland being a prt of your "country")

So stop talking feckin bollocks.

If you werent unionist , you wouldnt call yourself feckin british would you? You would see yourself then as english ?

I am democratic to the core, and believe the democratic will of the Scots or anyone else should be respected.

You told me earlier you didnt respect the 2016 brexit ref result , meaning you pick and choose which "democracy" to respect when it suits , and wanted another referendum on the subject no?

A labour liar SRB ,that what you are , and certainly no democrat.

If you can't respect what your own people vote for in 2016 , how the feck do you think we respect you or anything you say?

As far as Scottish independence is concerned I don't really regard it as very much of my business, and would be happy enough to honour whatever they decide

Thats a lie right there.

The other week you told me you were trying to win back the scottish voters who went snp with "kindness" ( no laughing at the back please) before you lost your rag and got all angry with me  for not agreeing with you.

You tell us on this thread you see yourself as "british".

So yes you are sticking your beak where it isnt wanted , like your shite party.

If I had to give a personal view I think the Scots are a good source of progressive left votes - whether that be for the SNP or not but definitely anti-Tory

And i told you scotland up till the sixties if i remember right was a conservative voting country. Many people in scotland have many differeing views politically , like any other normal country.

As for me  , let me help you once more.

Thomas isnt english.

Thomas isnt british.

Thomas isnt left wing.

Repeat after me srb till it sinks in.

[Thomas]

Every English person is Unionist to the core?

Do you see what you did here dyno?

Every single left leaning English person is Unionist to the core, but that's not true with right wing ones.

Do you even know what you're talking about anymore?

and here?

I never said english.

Heres what i originally said in my earlier post....

I hate the brit left because every one of you are unionist to the core.

Now do you understand the difference between being english and british , or england and britian?

Clearly you dont , as you conflate the two above.

I said i hate the british left , ( politically speaking of course) as they are unionist to the core. The british want to keep control of my country , and they see me as trying to break up theirs.

So we are political enemies. Are you grasping that dyno? Do you even know what you are talking about???

.Read above.

Dont need to read above , as the english are not my enemies politically speaking. The british are , for the previous reasons i gave. Read above.

You hate Labour because of what they've done in Scotland

aye that partly correct however...

conflate them with every person with what you term as 'leftist' views in Britain. That's still prejudiced...and idiotic, but expected.

No i dont.

I dislike labour for the previous reasons given , and the fact they are of course a british party.

I dont conflate this with every person with leftistr views in britian or elsewhere.

You need to learn to read and comprehend dyno . I said i hate the brit left. What part do you not get?

If you nationally identify as british as you do , and are on the left  , then politically we are enemies. Its not difficult dyno.

They aren't an IRA supporting party are they? I was right.

Many in labour past and present are. ...and the english public know it. Hence why wurzel got the boot in december among many other reasons for being a provo lover.

You are asserting I'm 100% a Unionist which makes you a complete liar and fabricator.

ok , but  i thought you once told me you are british?

So what are you british or english both or what?

What do you think "dont want a left wing utopia" implies?

It doesnt imply the snp are a centre right party does it dyno?

I have already pointed out the snp and the wider yes movement are a broad church , with varying differeing political views. I have also said many a time in an indy scotland i wont necessarily vote snp. I might vote for a centrist party , i might vote left , or right wing.

My vote will go to the highest bidder.

However  , at the moment , i will vote snp to get scottish indy , wether they are left right or centrist. It doesnt bother me. The important bit isnt policy , but the constitutional aim.

Are you getting this dyno?

Let me repeat .......i am not voting snp for some left wing utopia. I am not left wing.

Repeat after my dyno till it sinks in.

Or are you capable of understanding your own posts..

clearly you arent.

Where did I defend Labour?

LOL. Read the thread.

Who were Blairites.

so?

The point is two blairite leaders of labour and one hard left winger wouldnt work with the snp.

...and i dont want the snp to work with the brit left cause i despise them.

So it worked out rather well in the long term didnt it?

No, but you are thick as custard.

We are winning in scotland , the tories are winning in england , and the thick as custard brit left  are getting shat on left right and centre.

On top of that , the thick as shit labour support the provos , remain in the eu  ,and every other lost cause in politics.

It will be gr8 for scotland!

Well we did tell them in 2014 not to vote no , but unfortunately many now see the truth , but at least democracy will have been served .

As above.

I know you dont like democracy when it goes against you dyno , but such is life. Another day dont to hard brexit mate. Dont cry , it will soon be over.

I said both scenarios are possible; ie under the Tories or (willingly) with a future party (not Labour).

Who cares?

Whatever party scottish indy damages , and i think it will damage you more than the tories , we wont care as we will be long gone.

I would've liked Corbyn's indyref stance to have been fair, but it wasn't, sadly.

Im glad it wasnt , as i dont want the snp going anywhere near the brit left.

[Sheepy]

I am democratic to the core, and believe the democratic will of the Scots or anyone else should be respected.

For the record, does that include the Brexit vote?

Every where they take control they turn into a shithole.

Foreign and domestic as it happens, must be all part of the greater good, or they are just fecking barking mad.
Not only that I didn't want dawgs question disappearing without an honest answer, which we could be waiting a while.

[DeppityDawg]

I am democratic to the core, and believe the democratic will of the Scots or anyone else should be respected.

For the record, does that include the Brexit vote?

[Borg Refinery]

I hate the brit left because every one of you are unionist to the core.

You are talking shit right there. I am British and left. And I am not unionist to the core. I am democratic to the core, and believe the democratic will of the Scots or anyone else should be respected. As far as Scottish independence is concerned I don't really regard it as very much of my business, and would be happy enough to honour whatever they decide.

If I had to give a personal view I think the Scots are a good source of progressive left votes - whether that be for the SNP or not but definitely anti-Tory. I would be sorry to see Scotland leave (though losing you would sweeten the pill slightly, ). But it's a decision for the Scots. I'd prefer it if non Scots not resident in Scotland stayed out of any Scottish referendum campaign.

I know mate, he really is spouting the weirdest crapola I've seen in some time.

I think you're right..he's just hopelessly confused and lashing out in any which direction.

[srb7677]

I hate the brit left because every one of you are unionist to the core.

You are talking shit right there. I am British and left. And I am not unionist to the core. I am democratic to the core, and believe the democratic will of the Scots or anyone else should be respected. As far as Scottish independence is concerned I don't really regard it as very much of my business, and would be happy enough to honour whatever they decide.

If I had to give a personal view I think the Scots are a good source of progressive left votes - whether that be for the SNP or not but definitely anti-Tory. I would be sorry to see Scotland leave (though losing you would sweeten the pill slightly, ). But it's a decision for the Scots. I'd prefer it if non Scots not resident in Scotland stayed out of any Scottish referendum campaign.

[Borg Refinery]

Every English person is Unionist to the core?

Nope. Now you are making things up again. My wife is english , she isnt a unionist.

...but the politically active brit left are.

Every single left leaning English person is Unionist to the core, but that's not true with right wing ones.

Do you even know what you're talking about anymore?

So you are just completely hopelessly prejudiced against every single E'glish person?

Stop making things up yet again dyno .Its the mark of desperation .My wife and kids are english ,so what are you talking about?

.Read above.

How are you any different from a prejudiced Little Englander who screams about those nasty Jocks at every opportunity?

That is exactly what you are.

When al else fails , its back to calling the snp "nazis". LMFAO!

I love england , and the english people , i even fully support brexit , i just hate the english"brit " left , as do the majority of english people themsleves which is why you hardley ever win elections.

Freedom for england!

You hate Labour because of what they've done in Scotland and conflate them with every person with what you term as 'leftist' views in Britain. That's still prejudiced...and idiotic, but expected.

So you are asserting I am a 100% total utter liar then Thomas.

Then why respond to a word I write if everything is completely fabricated? I think you know you're talking utter bollocks

You denied labour were an ira supporting party , so why an i not surprised here you deny what i am saying about you?

Whatever  ,we arent political allies and never wil be dyno.

They aren't an IRA supporting party are they? I was right.

You are asserting I'm 100% a Unionist which makes you a complete liar and fabricator.

You said "you misunderstand the snp, scots dont want a left wing utopia"

So where does that say the snp are centre right?

Telling lies , from the man who says he isnt a liar?

LOL

What do you think "dont want a left wing utopia" implies? Or are you capable of understanding your own posts.. or do you get someone else to write them for you?

You found two MP's? Really? Pretty desperate stuff. Everyone knows Abbott and Galloway are out in the wild in Lab. Galloway left remember..

i know plenty who supported the ira from old labour in glasgow.

No matter dyno , the english public know the truth about you republican supproting anti semtic party.....

Why you defending labour when you say you dont support them? ( apart from election time )?

I'm defending myself from your nasty accusations that I'm a Unionist and a liar.

Where did I defend Labour?

If Corbyn hadn't been so stupid on scot indy she would've worked with him.

and milliband in 2015 , and brown in 2010 and so on.

Who were Blairites.

But I'm not a Brit Nat, you're just prejudiced against every single Englishman.

SNP nazis!!! Snp nazis!!!LOL

No, but you are thick as custard.

And I'll laugh at your suicidal support for the Tories and Brexit in England

.

you are leaving in 17 weeks dyno.Its working , democracy is being served!!!

WEll done bojo!

It will be gr8 for scotland!

don't get too upset whenthe Tories make their looming power grab from Scotland..

looking forward to it mate.

Another step from the british book of how to lose and empire , repeated in every country they ruled around the world.

Come on brexit!!!!

As above.

What part of Tories blamed for breaking up the union didn't you get?

The part where you said you want labour to work with the snp , give them an indyref and lose scotland in the process as a price for the brit left getting into powert!!!

I said both scenarios are possible; ie under the Tories or (willingly) with a future party (not Labour).

I would've liked Corbyn's indyref stance to have been fair, but it wasn't, sadly.

[Borg Refinery]

They are a broad tent I think, but definitely Salmond had a long history of being left wing.

Agreed. The scottish indy movement as i keep saying is a broad church of many different political groups and views united in support of scottish indy.

I am aware.

Again its not difficult , except for folk like you and your friend srb trying to lump us all into a wee niche because you desperately want to try and understand us but can't quite comprehend what unites us is our desire for scotland to be an independent nation.

You agree with me saying it's a broad church..then you disagree with me in the same post saying that I'm saying it's not a broad church?

Are you feeling okay?

Dear o dear.

The british left.......not the sharpest tools in the box .

But still more than adequate to deal with you.

[Thomas]

Every English person is Unionist to the core?

Nope. Now you are making things up again. My wife is english , she isnt a unionist.

...but the politically active brit left are.

So you are just completely hopelessly prejudiced against every single E'glish person?

Stop making things up yet again dyno .Its the mark of desperation .My wife and kids are english ,so what are you talking about?

How are you any different from a prejudiced Little Englander who screams about those nasty Jocks at every opportunity?

That is exactly what you are.

When al else fails , its back to calling the snp "nazis". LMFAO!

I love england , and the english people , i even fully support brexit , i just hate the english"brit " left , as do the majority of english people themsleves which is why you hardley ever win elections.

Freedom for england!

So you are asserting I am a 100% total utter liar then Thomas.

Then why respond to a word I write if everything is completely fabricated? I think you know you're talking utter bollocks

You denied labour were an ira supporting party , so why an i not surprised here you deny what i am saying about you?

Whatever  ,we arent political allies and never wil be dyno.

You said "you misunderstand the snp, scots dont want a left wing utopia"

So where does that say the snp are centre right?

Telling lies , from the man who says he isnt a liar?

LOL

You found two MP's? Really? Pretty desperate stuff. Everyone knows Abbott and Galloway are out in the wild in Lab. Galloway left remember..

i know plenty who supported the ira from old labour in glasgow.

No matter dyno , the english public know the truth about you republican supproting anti semtic party.....

Why you defending labour when you say you dont support them? ( apart from election time )?

If Corbyn hadn't been so stupid on scot indy she would've worked with him.

and milliband in 2015 , and brown in 2010 and so on.

But I'm not a Brit Nat, you're just prejudiced against every single Englishman.

SNP nazis!!! Snp nazis!!!LOL

And I'll laugh at your suicidal support for the Tories and Brexit in England

.

you are leaving in 17 weeks dyno.Its working , democracy is being served!!!

WEll done bojo!

don't get too upset whenthe Tories make their looming power grab from Scotland..

looking forward to it mate.

Another step from the british book of how to lose and empire , repeated in every country they ruled around the world.

Come on brexit!!!!

What part of Tories blamed for breaking up the union didn't you get?

The part where you said you want labour to work with the snp , give them an indyref and lose scotland in the process as a price for the brit left getting into powert!!!

[Borg Refinery]

Wilson later worked as a gambling lobbyist for the Gala Coral Group in the lead up to the passing of the 2005 Gambling Act, and as a director at London based public affairs consultancy Fellows' Associates.[6][7]

Wilson is known for being one of the "Famous Five", a group of local Labour Party members who helped a young Tony Blair get selected as the Labour candidate for Sedgefield for the 1983 general election.[3] He subsequently worked for Tony Blair in his constituency office, the Labour Party and a PR company.
----

Hmm, didn't Murdoch and The Sun etc back Blair?

ah so its back to the srb trope about it all being a nasty blairite conspiracy?

Whatever his political leanings within labour , he wasnt wrong though was he?

( dyno shoots the messenger yet again rather than the message!)

Of course he was wrong on every single point.

Blair did the exact opposite of what the man wrote about, he deflected any & all responsibility and acted as a vicious attack dog against Major...with Murdoch on his side.

So no, he is waffling as are you.

[Borg Refinery]

I understand why you hate Labour, I've said as much. But why do you hate any 'brit left' (which is a term that doesn't apply).

I hate the brit left because every one of you are unionist to the core.

?

Every English person is Unionist to the core?

So you are just completely hopelessly prejudiced against every single E'glish person?

How are you any different from a prejudiced Little Englander who screams about those nasty Jocks at every opportunity?

That is exactly what you are.

At the very least , many of you want to give the snp and the scottish indy movement a using to better your circumstances in england. The vast majority of you couldnt give a feck about scotland or its people , outwith our use to your own country and politics.

So you are asserting I am a 100% total utter liar then Thomas.

Then why respond to a word I write if everything is completely fabricated? I think you know you're talking utter bollocks.

You said the SNP are centre-right,

Where?

Making things up now? Quote me?

You said "you misunderstand the snp, scots dont want a left wing utopia".

They are non-existent, there is nothing not to support.

Labour are a Unionist party. Corbyn was forced to put his sympathies in a bottle

.

Primarily they are , but like anti semitism , many in their party support irish republicanism.

This seems to me that you are doing a variation of the SRB theme , where he paints the world a perfect place for labour till tony blair took over. Now you do the reverse with corbyn and the IRA.

Do you forget old labour and many in that party before blair and corbyn who had republican sympathies?

George galloway for example , or how labour made inroads in scotland during the fifties calling on the irish catholic vote to vote for them and portrayin their support for Ireland and northern irish indy?

When the troubles really kicked off in the sixties , labour were well known in scotland for playing the sectarian card , indeed my football club celtic has long had links with old labour in scotland.

Abbott declared support for British defeat in Northern Ireland

Diane Abbott backed victory for the IRA in an interview with a pro-republican journal, The Sunday Times has found.

Abbott, who will become home secretary if Labour wins the election, said in the 1984 interview that Ireland "is our struggle — every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abbott-declared-support-for-ira-defeat-of-britain-rp79dvvmk

You found two MP's? Really? Pretty desperate stuff. Everyone knows Abbott and Galloway are out in the wild in Lab. Galloway left remember..

You oppose any future English SNP type party do you? That's what I want.

Yep i will be opposing them dyno . In case you missed it , im a scottish nationalist and independence supporter , so if an english snp type party appeared  while we were unfortunately still in your union, they would be on the oppostie side of the fence to me. Its not difficult dyno.

Luckily, Sturgeon and sharper SNP types than you, would be willing to work with potential allies. If Corbyn hadn't been so stupid on scot indy she would've worked with him.

Fellow Brits? They were Glaswegians, they're on my side? How? I'm not a Unionist unless you're suggesting I'm a liar?

Dont talk cac. A large majority of them were northern irish unionists , many were brits from scotland , and a few from your country. British nationalists to a man.

But I'm not a Brit Nat, you're just prejudiced against every single Englishman.

I'll stick to my own beliefs thanks.

You do that , and as auld borkie says , the rest of us will laugh at the british left and their suicidal support for the irish republican cause.

And I'll laugh at your suicidal support for the Tories and Brexit in England.

Are you saying that's my belief? That's a way of saying I'm a liar Thomas.

So what are you saying then? Are you saying  ALL unionism matters?

...but only earlier dyno....you said..

I'm not a Unionist

I fink dyno speaks with forked tongue !

No idea how you deduced that from what I said, are you putting this into a de-translator that turns it into pish gobbledegook or something?

You're the aggressive one, don't shoot you!? Don't shoot me!

You seem very timid dyno ( we both know you arent) and keep telling me im on the wind up or being aggressive , when im only pointing out we are chatting on the interwebby.

take it easy hen. Its only a daft politics forum. I know your world has caved in this year with labour getting humped , covid 19 , the brit left not making any political inroads and hard brexit looming , but no need to get all touchy.

Ditto you Stomas neddy, don't get too upset whenthe Tories make their looming power grab from Scotland..

You couldn't be more wrong.

It helps the SNP and it helps Labour/any other party

If Scotland keaves then the Tories will be accused of destroying the Union. Which they kinda did.

It's quite simple, really.

LOL!. So you want labour or the brit left to go into power sharing with the snp , give us an indyref , scotland leaves and you get the blame keeping you out of power forever more?

Yep sounds about right!

What part of Tories blamed for breaking up the union didn't you get?

But I wouldn't be against giving you indyref even if it did hurt our electoral chances; principle comes before electoral success always. I would rather be honest and out of power for good than sellout.

Where did you come up with that rubbish?

You dont seem to be explaining yourself very well dyno. You are desperate for us to be political friends allies , and power share , but you insist you arent wanting us to stay.

The british left have done more damage to the scot indy cause over the last 100 years than the tories ever have. I wont forget it.

And that's my and every single English person's fault?

Um, DUP are loyalist terrorist supporters, ok SF are not great either.. but they were fighting for independence, not that that makes it ok, but there is a difference.

Are you daft enough to lump the SNP in with them?

Well I guess they stole abrelic from some English museum decades ago, maybe that's terrorism..

you are being desperately silly now. The DUP arent terrorists , they are loyalist british politicians . I know better than you what a british terrorist group is , when loyalists british terrorists blew up glaswegian pubs in the late 70`s.

...but if you can't understand the nuance of whatim saying about pro and anti british parties ,then more fool you. The englsi hpublic do , and thats what matters in light of this conversation and keeping the brit left irish republican sympathisers out of power.

You can repeat it til you're blue in the face, Lab are Unionist.

Under Starmer they're 1000% Unionist.

Are you denying this? 🤣

I surrender to the fact that you are on the wind up and are in story mode, where you write people's posts for them.

Says the man trying and failing to wriggle out of the brit lefts irish republican support , and all manner of twisting and turning in between.

Your people see it , and will carry on punishing you at the polls.

You carry on though dyno , stay in denial while the rest of us get the popcorn out and laugh.

Do you laugh a lot at your own jokes?

[Thomas]

They are a broad tent I think, but definitely Salmond had a long history of being left wing.

Agreed. The scottish indy movement as i keep saying is a broad church of many different political gropus and views united in scupport of scottish indy. Again its not difficult , except for folk like you and your friend srb trying to lump us all into a wee niche because you desperately want to try and understand us but can't quite comprehend what unites us is our desire for scotland to be an independent nation.

Dear o dear.

The british left.......not the sharpest tools in the box .

Ah well, they moan like hell about the state of politics, but when anyone sets out to do something about it, they are the worse thing since Adolf, of course you can point their form of idealism has made ten times worse, but that doesn't count, because of course they could do a better job. Which im all fairness you can knock the SNP for many things, but not for making Scotland a better place for the Scots on the whole.

To be fair sheepy , the british left and labour had brought scotland so feckin low over 80 years that it wouldnt have taken much to improve it.

Labour used to boast how they had brought glasgow down to the highest benefit claimant city in the universe , the worst knife crime capital at one stage in the western world with the lowest life expectancy in the developed world.

Since getting rid of them , knife crime has dropped off to nothing ( and guess what...its on the rise in london under a labour mayorLOL) health wealth infrasturcture and everything else is on ths increase , all under the snp hence the above 50 % in the polls supporting the snp.

Poor auld labour , even the northern english are now seeing through their champagne socialism.

Every where they take control they turn into a shithole.

[Sheepy]

They are a broad tent I think, but definitely Salmond had a long history of being left wing.

Agreed. The scottish indy movement as i keep saying is a broad church of many different political gropus and views united in scupport of scottish indy. Again its not difficult , except for folk like you and your friend srb trying to lump us all into a wee niche because you desperately want to try and understand us but can't quite comprehend what unites us is our desire for scotland to be an independent nation.

Dear o dear.

The british left.......not the sharpest tools in the box .

Ah well, they moan like hell about the state of politics, but when anyone sets out to do something about it, they are the worse thing since Adolf, of course you can point out their form of idealism has made it ten times worse, but that doesn't count, because of course they could do a better job. Which in all fairness you can knock the SNP for many things, but not for making Scotland a better place for the Scots on the whole.

[Thomas]

They are a broad tent I think, but definitely Salmond had a long history of being left wing.

Agreed. The scottish indy movement as i keep saying is a broad church of many different political groups and views united in support of scottish indy. Again its not difficult , except for folk like you and your friend srb trying to lump us all into a wee niche because you desperately want to try and understand us but can't quite comprehend what unites us is our desire for scotland to be an independent nation.

Dear o dear.

The british left.......not the sharpest tools in the box .