Why Labour lost.

[patman post]

Just wait until January 2021, I suspect it will soon become very obvious he hasn't.

So you keep saying, but without any indication of what to expect.
Personally, I doubt the overall economy will be showing anything other than the on-going effects of Covid — Brexit is unlikely to be greatly noticeable by the general population before 2022 or later.
Of course, Boris could always be ousted by the party — he seems to have been a fringe player for some weeks now — though it's difficult to see anyone of sufficient ability or gravitas to take his place...

[papasmurf]

Now Boris has to come up with the goods.

Just wait until January 2021, I suspect it will soon become very obvious he hasn't.

[Good old]

The last election is history, the referendum is history. Now Boris has to come up with the goods. He could so easily work himself and his party out of a job if he is still stumbling from one balls up after another after five years.
Labour need to give the electorate a clear sound choice to make. That won't happen if Labour , let their internal bitching become constant super material for the Mail, the Sun, and the rest of Press desperate to keep the Tories in place.
All parties have disagreements . Turn them into wars , and they can forget it , no matter how bad the government might be.

[srb7677]

Labour lost because the Tories were led by Boris Johnson, the happy warrior who promised to get the UK out of the EU. The Labour party were lead by Worzel Gummidge who had a cup of nettle tea in his hand and a vague idea that all the country's problems could be solved by hanging the kulaks from the gates of the Winter Palace.

In consequence of this the brothers and sisters ended up getting well and truly f**ked.

You really should stop spouting utterly exaggerated and ridiculous shit if you want to be taken seriously. Corbyn never wanted to hang anybody, ffs, .

[papasmurf]

Pupils caught up in the current exam fiasco will be old enough to vote by the time the next general election is due. Coupled with the culling of the older generation of voters by both age and Covid, the swing could be Leftward enough to upset the Tories....

Add to that all the other people the Tories have hacked off since the last election, it does look a bit bleak for Bojo The Clown.

[patman post]

Pupils caught up in the current exam fiasco will be old enough to vote by the time the next general election is due. Coupled with the culling of the older generation of voters by both age and Covid, the swing could be Leftward enough to upset the Tories....

[papasmurf]

Labour lost because the Tories were led by Boris Johnson, the happy warrior who promised to get the UK out of the EU.

When the truth becomes obvious shortly after January 2021, the votes lent to Boris will disappear.

[Borchester]

Labour lost because the Tories were led by Boris Johnson, the happy warrior who promised to get the UK out of the EU. The Labour party were lead by Worzel Gummidge who had a cup of nettle tea in his hand and a vague idea that all the country's problems could be solved by hanging the kulaks from the gates of the Winter Palace.

In consequence of this the brothers and sisters ended up getting well and truly fucked.

[papasmurf]

I think - taking the lead from Corbyn himself - the leadership were too high minded. They decided to treat the smears with the contempt they deserved by mostly ignoring them. But this doesn't work in politics. It merely allows the lies to go unchallenged.

I agree, it should not only have been challenged, the lies should have been challenged in Court.

[srb7677]

Firstly, he and his team did not fight back robustly enough and should have been taking legal action which we the membership would gladly have crowdfunded.

The lies and propaganda in the media/press could have been very easily challenged and shot down in flames and the lack of challenging is frankly a puzzle.

I think - taking the lead from Corbyn himself - the leadership were too high minded. They decided to treat the smears with the contempt they deserved by mostly ignoring them. But this doesn't work in politics. It merely allows the lies to go unchallenged. I think Corbyn himself had little stomach for the fight against the lies precisely because he found them so contemptible. But this was a flaw. They needed to be challenged and were not effectively. The fact that members of our own party were complicit in the lies just added to his reluctance. He didn't want to wage a civil war in the party, failing to recognise fully that the Blairites were already waging one against him anyway.

[papasmurf]

Firstly, he and his team did not fight back robustly enough and should have been taking legal action which we the membership would gladly have crowdfunded.

The lies and propaganda in the media/press could have been very easily challenged and shot down in flames and the lack of challenging is frankly a puzzle.

[srb7677]

Starmer has actually inherited a raft of highly popular policies (according to polling). It was not these which cost us the election. His problem today in policy terms is that few intelligent people believe that he believes in those popular policies and suspect he is itching to ditch at least some of them. But this would do us in the party more harm than good.

The lessons of both 2017 and 2019 is that whilst our policies were popular, Brexit was an albatross around our necks, with our supporters hopelessly split on the issue. We were damned if we do and damned if we don't, though it is clear that Starmer's chosen path which Corbyn was bamboozled into accepting was disastrous. Our only hope was to have made the election about anything other than Brexit. In 2017 this partly worked with media focus on our popular manifesto, hence we did comparatively well. The media were never going to let that happen in 2019 which became the Brexit election, which doomed us.

Another reason we lost is that the media, the opposition, and Blairite traitors within our own party found it too easy to demonise Corbyn and were very successful in doing so. That our own Blairites were complicit in this also showcased massive disunity which did not play well on the doorstep.

There were two factors that allowed Corbyn to be so comprehensively and effectively demonised.

Firstly, he and his team did not fight back robustly enough and should have been taking legal action which we the membership would gladly have crowdfunded. But Corbyn instead mostly tried to ignore the attacks, then roll with the punches, occasionally attempting to appease.

And secondly, Corbyn had too much baggage, too much that could all too easily be grotesquely distorted in ways that were effective with those who emote more than think. To defend past actions and associations against this he needed to come out fighting but sadly often didn't. He was in fact too nice and not tough enough where he needed to be.