Why Labour lost.

[Sheepy]

😆 That is sure to boil most of the forum's blood I reckon..

The truth often hurts.  Labour has been subject to a Tsunami of lies and propaganda for a long time.
It is no good using complex intellectual arguments during an election campaigns when around 85% of the target audience have problems finding their own backside in the dark.

Labour needs to start keeping the message short and simple.  They also need to challenge the lies and propaganda.

It's not good asking people you openly despise to vote for you.

LOL no they openly insult their voters and then wonder why they don't have any votes.

[papasmurf]

It's not good asking people you openly despise to vote for you.

That does not seem to bother the Tories, it would be difficult to think of a group of people they have not treated with contempt over the last 10 years.

[Baff]

😆 That is sure to boil most of the forum's blood I reckon..

The truth often hurts.  Labour has been subject to a Tsunami of lies and propaganda for a long time.
It is no good using complex intellectual arguments during an election campaigns when around 85% of the target audience have problems finding their own backside in the dark.

Labour needs to start keeping the message short and simple.  They also need to challenge the lies and propaganda.

It's not good asking people you openly despise to vote for you.

[Sheepy]

A lot of why Labour lost is down to the complexity of the message. With a novel length manifesto.
The Tories on the other used one of Joseph Goebbels propaganda tenets to great effect.

" 'Make the lie big, keep it simple, keep saying it and eventually they will believe it'"

"Get Brexit done."

😆 That is sure to boil most of the forum's blood I reckon..

Underestimating the the working class has always been your problem hence the lies, but one thing for sure we can fight like cat and dog, but one thing when we see a cuckoo in the nest we know one, we become very protective of our own, just ask Cromwell.

[Sheepy]

No you don't, and taking them for useful idiots is not my bag like yours either.

Compared to the lies Tories have told you need to take your blinkers off.

You don't get the right to tell me what I should think smurfy, when it is so obvious to anyone with half a brain, you are the standard middle class who has latched on to the working class for your own self aggrandisement.

[papasmurf]

No you don't, and taking them for useful idiots is not my bag like yours either.

Compared to the lies Tories have told you need to take your blinkers off.

[Sheepy]

How can they manage that then, when Liebour are the biggest liars under the sun.

I have to presume you are joking.

No you don't, and taking them for useful idiots is not my bag like yours either.

[papasmurf]

How can they manage that then, when Liebour are the biggest liars under the sun.

I have to presume you are joking.

[Sheepy]

How can they manage that then, when Liebour are the biggest liars under the sun. Somehow they even made the Tories look the more honest of the Westminster party. Now that takes some doing however you look at it. Which it seems Smurfy highly encourages.

[papasmurf]

😆 That is sure to boil most of the forum's blood I reckon..

The truth often hurts.  Labour has been subject to a Tsunami of lies and propaganda for a long time.
It is no good using complex intellectual arguments during an election campaigns when around 85% of the target audience have problems finding their own backside in the dark.

Labour needs to start keeping the message short and simple.  They also need to challenge the lies and propaganda.

[Sheepy]

A lot of why Labour lost is down to the complexity of the message. With a novel length manifesto.
The Tories on the other used one of Joseph Goebbels propaganda tenets to great effect.

" 'Make the lie big, keep it simple, keep saying it and eventually they will believe it'"

"Get Brexit done."

bleat,bleat, they don't have any other choice Smurfy, they couldn't even manage polarised American style politics, because we weren't having any of that either. A good chess player always anticipates the opponents next move.

[Borg Refinery]

A lot of why Labour lost is down to the complexity of the message. With a novel length manifesto.
The Tories on the other used one of Joseph Goebbels propaganda tenets to great effect.

" 'Make the lie big, keep it simple, keep saying it and eventually they will believe it'"

"Get Brexit done."

😆 That is sure to boil most of the forum's blood I reckon..

[papasmurf]

A lot of why Labour lost is down to the complexity of the message. With a novel length manifesto.
The Tories on the other used one of Joseph Goebbels propaganda tenets to great effect.

" 'Make the lie big, keep it simple, keep saying it and eventually they will believe it'"

"Get Brexit done."

[Sheepy]

LOL lets dissect the Liebour party, they lost because they are shit and everybody knows it. They ramped up thinking they could do a con job and got slaughtered.

[Borg Refinery]

Starmer has actually inherited a raft of highly popular policies (according to polling). It was not these which cost us the election. His problem today in policy terms is that few intelligent people believe that he believes in those popular policies and suspect he is itching to ditch at least some of them. But this would do us in the party more harm than good.

The lessons of both 2017 and 2019 is that whilst our policies were popular, Brexit was an albatross around our necks, with our supporters hopelessly split on the issue. We were damned if we do and damned if we don't, though it is clear that Starmer's chosen path which Corbyn was bamboozled into accepting was disastrous. Our only hope was to have made the election about anything other than Brexit. In 2017 this partly worked with media focus on our popular manifesto, hence we did comparatively well. The media were never going to let that happen in 2019 which became the Brexit election, which doomed us.

Another reason we lost is that the media, the opposition, and Blairite traitors within our own party found it too easy to demonise Corbyn and were very successful in doing so. That our own Blairites were complicit in this also showcased massive disunity which did not play well on the doorstep.

There were two factors that allowed Corbyn to be so comprehensively and effectively demonised.

Firstly, he and his team did not fight back robustly enough and should have been taking legal action which we the membership would gladly have crowdfunded. But Corbyn instead mostly tried to ignore the attacks, then roll with the punches, occasionally attempting to appease.

And secondly, Corbyn had too much baggage, too much that could all too easily be grotesquely distorted in ways that were effective with those who emote more than think. To defend past actions and associations against this he needed to come out fighting but sadly often didn't. He was in fact too nice and not tough enough where he needed to be.

Nah. The stuff you say was only a small part of it.


- The internal sabotage https://medium.com/@VeritasMedia/labours-internal-sabotage-c0e8b7072e3d

- Corbyn's dishonest Brexit stance; he was a Brexiter. He should have been honest and been pro-Brexit as he was in the past.

I am a Europhile, but I would still have voted for him because it's the day to day running of the country that is more important than the EU one way or the other.

- His incompetent shadow cabinet picks - ALL of them were utterly useless maybe with the exception of Rebecca..

- The special interest groups fighting against him, but especially the organized campaign by the ADL* to smear him as an anti-semite. Plus you had MI5 & MI6 and Army Generals saying they'd stop him by any means necessary as he was a terrorist and security threat, and can't be allowed to be elected(!).

*And I don't give a f**k what anyone thinks of me for saying that, because a poll found Tory members were more anti-semitic than Labour members - several Tory high fliers were suspnded for anti semitism - even my MP is under investigation for it! - and Boris himself wrote a book employing anti-semitic tropes(!).

So bollocks to the lie that Labour are any more anti-semitic than the Tories. Utter BS.

- Labour decided to treat the Scots, Welsh with contempt as always and it backfired spectacularly.

The Senedd is SO corrupt that it's not even real - if Labour had power in Scotland they'd treat it like their fiefdom too.

That's not OK. The Labour policy was pretty unionist and that's not really acceptable IMHO.