Why Labour lost.

[Sheepy]

Well thats the English for you, uncaring bastards,  we love a civil fecking war to police.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/gallery/2012/jan/22/belfast-peace-wall

[Borchester]

Brits increasingly don't care whether Northern Ireland remains in UK

It appears there is significant disinterest amongst the British public regarding the future of Northern Ireland, as more than half of all Brits (54%) say they would not be bothered either way by the region leaving the UK.

Not only do many Brits feel distant from the island of Ireland, the subject of Irish history is something few seem to have engaged in. Just 6% of the public say they have studied Irish Home Rule and the Troubles whilst at school

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/04/22/brits-increasingly-dont-care-whether-northern-irel

So the british left are going all out to plead the moral high ground for an area that the majority couldnt care less about in the rest of the yookay , especially england.

Yep definite winning formula there dyno.

A policy so heroically stupid that I can't see how the brothers and sisters can possibly resist it 

[Thomas]

Brits increasingly don't care whether Northern Ireland remains in UK

It appears there is significant disinterest amongst the British public regarding the future of Northern Ireland, as more than half of all Brits (54%) say they would not be bothered either way by the region leaving the UK.

Not only do many Brits feel distant from the island of Ireland, the subject of Irish history is something few seem to have engaged in. Just 6% of the public say they have studied Irish Home Rule and the Troubles whilst at school

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/04/22/brits-increasingly-dont-care-whether-northern-irel

So the british left are going all out to plead the moral high ground for an area that the majority couldnt care less about in the rest of the yookay , especially england.

Yep definite winning formula there dyno.

[DeppityDawg]

Never suggested there wasn't blame on both sides Depitty, you saw what I wrote to Thomas - by the 40's the IRA descended into gangsterism and outright terrorism.

If you ignore the opening drinking songs, this video gives a fair feeling of what it was like - not always, but as the old hands said, "save your tears - there'll be days like these" Some good shots too from the Republican side, obviously taken during ops. Not easy to find stuff like that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXYa_HVQdH4

[Thomas]

Its a pity Frank Kitson didn't have you there to put him right isn't it? It would all have been over in five minutes and we could have all fecked off back to Germany for beer and schnitzls

Pappy had a dirty nappy thrown at him from a window in truro high street one year when he was on a socialist workers march , so while he wasnt with you in body deppity outside the divis flats , he was with you in spirit.

[Thomas]

They don't want to hear about their fellow Catholic citizens getting treated like shit and cleansed and slaughtered Thomas?

Am I reading you correctly here?

Until they rejoin the ROI they are full citizens with as much rights as anyone else, I don't believe that folks from Wales, Scotland and England don't care about them.

The naivety of the british left never ceases to amaze me.

Think about what you are saying here in light of the discussion around the electability of the labour party and you wondering why the tories keep winning. Think about it dyno?

The average englishman wont remember of give a feck about the then 39 year old remedial teacher Pat McClean getting his door kicked in by british soldiers ,hauled away from his watching wife and children and interred , but they do remember the IRA bombing their country.

No matter how justified the republican cause was in your eyes , its a pretty feckin stupid thing for a major english party , the labour party , to do and be seen to be in bed with englands enemies dont you think?

England don't give a feck about NI? Really.... nah I don't agree even 1% with this. Of course they care, and remember

Well we dont have to go as far back as the troubles to see the truth of my statement .

Because by an even bigger margin (59-41), the people of England are also willing – on those numbers one might go so far as to say "eager" – to dump Northern Ireland if it gets them out of the European Union.

Even on something as simple as  politics such as brexit , never mind armed struggle , the english are more than happy to dump northern ireland.

You believe what you want dyno. Labour support for the republicans is a millstone around their necks in terms of electability  , and the tories must rub thier hands with glee everytime someone in labour mentions the poor downtrodden catholic masses in northern ireland.

[Borg Refinery]

The english people dont want to hear about the justification of countries fighting their way out of the "british " empire.

They don't want to hear about their fellow Catholic citizens getting treated like shit and cleansed and slaughtered Thomas?

Am I reading you correctly here?

Until they rejoin the ROI they are full citizens with as much rights as anyone else, I don't believe that folks from Wales, Scotland and England don't care about them.

Edit:

England couldnt give a feck about the intracacies of the northern irish conflict. All they saw was catholic northern irish , like the republic irish 100 years earlier , trying to tear up their country and blowing up thier pubs and killing their soldiers.

England don't give a feck about NI? Really.... nah I don't agree even 1% with this. Of course they care, and remember

[Borg Refinery]

Was a bit apprehensive about mentioning NI, as I like you and I know it's a sore spot (I don't mean that as a dig btw) as you served there..

..but I also had to be honest. The govt did collaborate with loyalist terrorists.

The DUP have been talking to loyalist paramilitaries recently..

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/10/16/news/dup-defends-arlene-foster-s-astonishing-meetings-with-senior-loyalists-1739844/

And yet the govt has accommodated them plenty, both the previous one and this one.

And they put soldiers in danger too, if memory serves some have died at their hands, even if it was accidental.

Yes. Well, those slimy brits, who can trust them? Because of course, countries and governments throughout the whole history of conflict have always 'collaborated' with the enemy instead haven't they? Like I said, its not a subject you'll get may people to talk about, in just the same way you won't get the great people of the Bogside or the Turf Lodge to talk about what their 'weens' did eh?

Never suggested there wasn't blame on both sides Depitty, you saw what I wrote to Thomas - by the 40's the IRA descended into gangsterism and outright terrorism.

Most of us had little love of the hard core Loyalists either - and yes, there was the odd shooting incident or two. And it would often kick off when the Army's job was to stop the cnuts from marching down streets where nobody wanted them. At times like that it was safest to assume that everyone hated you. I doubt that's something people like Corbyn will ever understand, let alone have had to face

Fair enough if that's your perspective, but from what I read he always wanted a peace deal. No one will ever know what it was truly like unless they were there in the thick of it, I completely agree.

I feel the govt used soldiers to do their dirty work and traumatized many.

My point was in part that Catholics in NI are citizens of the yoo-kay just like anyone else and demanded (rightly) equal treatment. They had to fight back because they were ignored by a vicious colonizl Brit state - but their organizations like I said went downhill in the 40's and they degenerated into gangsterism..

[DeppityDawg]

If it comes to British spooks and the British government not me. There were some very dirty tricks deployed, some of which are only just coming to light.
Some of which I suspect caused "collateral damage," to British troops.

Its a pity Frank Kitson didn't have you there to put him right isn't it? It would all have been over in five minutes and we could have all fecked off back to Germany for beer and schnitzls

[Sheepy]

Yes. Well, those slimy brits, who can trust them?

If it comes to British spooks and the British government not me. There were some very dirty tricks deployed, some of which are only just coming to light.
Some of which I suspect caused "collateral damage," to British troops.

Such as?

[papasmurf]

Yes. Well, those slimy brits, who can trust them?

If it comes to British spooks and the British government not me. There were some very dirty tricks deployed, some of which are only just coming to light.
Some of which I suspect caused "collateral damage," to British troops.

[DeppityDawg]

Was a bit apprehensive about mentioning NI, as I like you and I know it's a sore spot (I don't mean that as a dig btw) as you served there..

..but I also had to be honest. The govt did collaborate with loyalist terrorists.

The DUP have been talking to loyalist paramilitaries recently..

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/10/16/news/dup-defends-arlene-foster-s-astonishing-meetings-with-senior-loyalists-1739844/

And yet the govt has accommodated them plenty, both the previous one and this one.

And they put soldiers in danger too, if memory serves some have died at their hands, even if it was accidental.

Yes. Well, those slimy brits, who can trust them? Because of course, countries and governments throughout the whole history of conflict have always 'collaborated' with the enemy instead haven't they? Like I said, its not a subject you'll get may people to talk about, in just the same way you won't get the great people of the Bogside or the Turf Lodge to talk about what their 'weens' did eh?

Most of us had little love of the hard core Loyalists either - and yes, there was the odd shooting incident or two. And it would often kick off when the Army's job was to stop the cnuts from marching down streets where nobody wanted them. At times like that it was safest to assume that everyone hated you. I doubt that's something people like Corbyn will ever understand, let alone have had to face

[Thomas]

The original Fenian movement was justified, and the original IRA ..but they went wrong in the 1940's and just became gangster terror orgs

again saying things like this wont help your parties electability will it?# edit to add , or get the tories out of power #

The english people dont want to hear about the justification of countries fighting their way out of the "british " empire.

This is nothing more than red meat for the conservatives. Which is why despite all you say about johnson and his party ,the english flock to vote conservative every election.

[Thomas]

I would like to point out the biggest fillers of collecting buckets for the IRA were in America.
I did see such a collection in the 32 Club in Harlesden  back around 1968.  (I was then and still am a fan of Irish music.)

They were. I totally agree.

The point is though america isnt asking the english electorate for their votes , labour are ,and england/britain is nothing more than a lap dog for the yanks , so they dont actually care .

So apart from diverting awayfrom an uncomfortable topic for your friends in the labour party what is your point?

A bunch of silly irishmen made jolly old england look feckin stupid  during the troubles. It was a worldwide pr disaster for england , and had the yanks dipping into their pockets ( and many others)when they saw the british oppressing the irish .

Not only did the yanks fund the ira , but remember they celebrate their own independence from england every single year.

So theres another thing to take offence at .

It doesnt however help labours electability screaming about its all the yanks fault. The yanks dont care , but the english electorate care , and while england cant hurt america , it can certainly hurt the labour party which is the whole point.

dear o feckin dear.

[Thomas]

No I never said Labour was pro-IRA - they were not.

"Another British declassified document from 1975 reveals concerns from senior British army officers — which were communicated to then prime minister Harold Wilson — that the UDR was "heavily infiltrated" by loyalist paramilitaries and could not be relied upon to follow orders. The response from the British government was not to disband the UDR but to mobilise it along the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, and increase its numbers and its intelligence-gathering role."

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2020-01-15-explainer-british-collusion-in-northern-irelands-dirty-war/amp/

They were pro loyalist..

..Corbyn was pro-IRA, but wanted a peace deal. Not sure how that's worse than being pro loyalist?

Aren't they both terrorists?

They killed Catholic British citizens in NI, are they not worth as much as any Englishman? Of course they are.

That's the point.

I know what labour are.

You miss the point.

On every subject , labour try , and fail to take the moral high ground while pissing off their own electorate. Thats the point.

Do you think corbyn the peacemaker who talks to anyone to get peace actually sells to the english electorate?

England couldnt give a feck about the intracacies of the northern irish conflict. All they saw was catholic northern irish , like the republic irish 100 years earlier , trying to tear up their country and blowing up thier pubs and killing their soldiers.

.....and labour talking to and supporting them , and the tories making mincemeat over it by parading it all over the media.

How do you think that went down with former labour voters like deppity dawg in northern england?

Then you preach to the scottish about the wonders of freedom , and how countries around the world like norhtern ireland or palestine must have freedom at all cost , then the obvious question gets asked in scotland what about us ?.....and labour says no not you jock , just everyone else.

You look feckin stupid.

The snp take apart your moral hypocrisy in scotland , and the tories do the same in england , portraying you as enemies of the ordinary english people who consort with englands enemies.

its laughable watching it.