Why Labour lost.

[Thomas]

Did he really?

Christ you are both getting that desperate now you ar making things up i havent said.

Feckin excellent.

Quote me where i said the snp are centre right please?

I think Thomas is a bit confused because he personally loves the SNP yet hates the left,

I think clearly its you who is confused SRB. Have you been back to the old habit of smoking the funny fags again? Your senses seem all muddled.

I dont love any political party , i am a scottish indy supporter so the snp get a loan of my vote till independence. After that , its up for sale.

I dont hate the left. ...........just the brit  left.

[Thomas]

Wilson later worked as a gambling lobbyist for the Gala Coral Group in the lead up to the passing of the 2005 Gambling Act, and as a director at London based public affairs consultancy Fellows' Associates.[6][7]

Wilson is known for being one of the "Famous Five", a group of local Labour Party members who helped a young Tony Blair get selected as the Labour candidate for Sedgefield for the 1983 general election.[3] He subsequently worked for Tony Blair in his constituency office, the Labour Party and a PR company.
----

Hmm, didn't Murdoch and The Sun etc back Blair?

ah so its back to the srb trope about it all being a nasty blairite conspiracy?

Whatever his political leanings within labour , he wasnt wrong though was he?

( dyno shoots the messenger yet again rather than the message!)

[Thomas]

I understand why you hate Labour, I've said as much. But why do you hate any 'brit left' (which is a term that doesn't apply).

I hate the brit left because every one of you are unionist to the core. You might deny it , but we have seen every british party left right and centre , and their politicians gang up to keep scotland in their union. We have seen british activists , english , northern irish , welsh , come up and campaign against the snp and keep scotland in the union , and when you go on forums such as these , you see all the anglo political divisions unite to gang up on scottish indy no matter what their political differences.

At the very least , many of you want to give the snp and the scottish indy movement a using to better your circumstances in england. The vast majority of you couldnt give a feck about scotland or its people , outwith our use to your own country and politics.

You can deny it all you want , i couldnt care less dyno. You might even be a decent enough person, but you are no political ally of mine.

I've stated my preference is zn English version of the SNP.

Crack on then. You english seem to spend forever talking about things rather than actually getting up and doing it.

You said the SNP are centre-right,

Where?

Making things up now? Quote me?

Would you call Sturgeon's 2019 pledge to abolish all care home fees 'centre right'?

Nope cause i never called sturgeon centre right so what are you talking about? Learn to read dyno.

They are non-existent, there is nothing not to support.

Labour are a Unionist party. Corbyn was forced to put his sympathies in a bottle

.

Primarily they are , but like anti semitism , many in their party support irish republicanism.

This seems to me that you are doing a variation of the SRB theme , where he paints the world a perfect place for labour till tony blair took over. Now you do the reverse with corbyn and the IRA.

Do you forget old labour and many in that party before blair and corbyn who had republican sympathies?

George galloway for example , or how labour made inroads in scotland during the fifties calling on the irish catholic vote to vote for them and portrayin their support for Ireland and northern irish indy?

When the troubles really kicked off in the sixties , labour were well known in scotland for playing the sectarian card , indeed my football club celtic has long had links with old labour in scotland.

Abbott declared support for British defeat in Northern Ireland

Diane Abbott backed victory for the IRA in an interview with a pro-republican journal, The Sunday Times has found.

Abbott, who will become home secretary if Labour wins the election, said in the 1984 interview that Ireland "is our struggle — every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abbott-declared-support-for-ira-defeat-of-britain-rp79dvvmk

You oppose any future English SNP type party do you? That's what I want.

Yep i will be opposing them dyno . In case you missed it , im a scottish nationalist and independence supporter , so if an english snp type party appeared  while we were unfortunately still in your union, they would be on the oppostie side of the fence to me. Its not difficult dyno.

Fellow Brits? They were Glaswegians, they're on my side? How? I'm not a Unionist unless you're suggesting I'm a liar?

Dont talk cac. A large majority of them were northern irish unionists , many were brits from scotland , and a few from your country. British nationalists to a man.

I'll stick to my own beliefs thanks.

You do that , and as auld borkie says , the rest of us will laugh at the british left and their suicidal support for the irish republican cause.

Are you saying that's my belief? That's a way of saying I'm a liar Thomas.

So what are you saying then? Are you saying  ALL unionism matters?

...but only earlier dyno....you said..

I'm not a Unionist

I fink dyno speaks with forked tongue !

You're the aggressive one, don't shoot you!? Don't shoot me!

You seem very timid dyno ( we both know you arent) and keep telling me im on the wind up or being aggressive , when im only pointing out we are chatting on the interwebby.

take it easy hen. Its only a daft politics forum. I know your world has caved in this year with labour getting humped , covid 19 , the brit left not making any political inroads and hard brexit looming , but no need to get all touchy.

You couldn't be more wrong.

It helps the SNP and it helps Labour/any other party

If Scotland keaves then the Tories will be accused of destroying the Union. Which they kinda did.

It's quite simple, really.

LOL!. So you want labour or the brit left to go into power sharing with the snp , give us an indyref , scotland leaves and you get the blame keeping you out of power forever more?

Yep sounds about right!

Where did you come up with that rubbish?

You dont seem to be explaining yourself very well dyno. You are desperate for us to be political friends allies , and power share , but you insist you arent wanting us to stay.

The british left have done more damage to the scot indy cause over the last 100 years than the tories ever have. I wont forget it.

Um, DUP are loyalist terrorist supporters, ok SF are not great either.. but they were fighting for independence, not that that makes it ok, but there is a difference.

Are you daft enough to lump the SNP in with them?

Well I guess they stole abrelic from some English museum decades ago, maybe that's terrorism..

you are being desperately silly now. The DUP arent terrorists , they are loyalist british politicians . I know better than you what a british terrorist group is , when loyalists british terrorists blew up glaswegian pubs in the late 70`s.

...but if you cant understand the nuance of whatim saying about pro and anti british parties ,then more fool you. The englsi hpublic do , and thats what matters in light of this conversation and keeping the brit left irish republican sympathisers out of power.

I surrender to the fact that you are on the wind up and are in story mode, where you write people's posts for them.

Says the man trying and failing to wriggle out of the brit lefts irish republican support , and all manner of twisting and turning in between.

Your people see it , and will carry on punishing you at the polls.

You carry on though dyno , stay in denial while the rest of us get the popcorn out and laugh.

[Borg Refinery]

You said the SNP are centre-right...

Did he really? They look more left to me, which is how they have so successfully assumed the mantle of the progressive left in Scotland after the Blairites abandoned such ground. What is centre right about abolishing tuition fees, ending right to buy, and building more council houses? Lmfao. The SNP is definitely to the left of New Labour, which is partly why it eroded so much of the former Labour and then the Lib Dem vote. I think Thomas is a bit confused because he personally loves the SNP yet hates the left, which looks like a very schizoid position to be in from my perspective. Lol

They are a broad tent I think, but definitely Salmond had a long history of being left wing.

Sturgeon insisted that Thatcherite's hlrribleness to Scotland inspired her to join politics sometime in the 80's, and she was with CND etc.

They sound very centre right to me.

[srb7677]

You said the SNP are centre-right...

Did he really? They look more left to me, which is how they have so successfully assumed the mantle of the progressive left in Scotland after the Blairites abandoned such ground. What is centre right about abolishing tuition fees, ending right to buy, and building more council houses? Lmfao. The SNP is definitely to the left of New Labour, which is partly why it eroded so much of the former Labour and then the Lib Dem vote. I think Thomas is a bit confused because he personally loves the SNP yet hates the left, which looks like a very schizoid position to be in from my perspective. Lol

[Borg Refinery]

Labour has lost four elections in nine years. Some may blame the wrong policies, the media, even the electorate. Whatever the argument to explain Labour's defeats, it seems always to be drawn from the deep well of victimhood, because it's always someone else's fault. But it isn't. It's ours. The Labour Party.

Corbyn brought a worldview alien to the Labour Party. A worldview that belonged on the fringes. With his victory, that worldview became centre stage and all those who lived on the fringes with him found their home centre stage too. The pseudo-Marxists, Bennites, anti-Semites and cultists all thought it was their turn to run Labour. So they did. The doors were flung open to people in their image, creating a dystopian Labour Party, not recognisable to many of its existing members, never mind our supporters. Some of the zealots I came across, if you uttered one word of doubt about the competence of their leader you felt as though, if it were five hundred years ago, you would have been burnt at the stake. Such was the fundamental intolerance of the cult around him.

The cult's only mission was to take control of the Labour Party. The priority was not the communities we serve, but the cult's hard-left ambitions. It was nothing to do with Labour voters, but all to do with finding a home for their vanity project. Tasteless and selfish, their project is on the verge of destroying the Labour Party

I thought these were wise words dyno....

Any criticism of the leadership was the fault of the mainstream media. The print media has always held an anti-Labour bent, but has never stopped the election of Labour governments in the past. The lesson is: if you believe the press is not your natural ally, don't make it easy for them. If you don't want the press to write you are a terrorist sympathiser, don't lay a wreath at the grave of a terrorist. If you don't want the press to write you are a friend of Hamas or Hezbollah, don't call them your friends. If you don't want the press to write you associate with the IRA, don't associate with the IRA. If you don't want the press to doubt your patriotism, don't give Russia the benefit of the doubt over the Salisbury poisonings or take money from Iranian state media. If you want the press to highlight your aversion to antisemitism, don't share a platform with known anti-Semites and defend antisemitic murals.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour-leadership-race/2020/03/labours-mess-predictable-result-leader-and-philosophy-hated



What i said to you earlier dyno , that corbyns child like naivety and those on the brit left gave the press red meat to chew on over things like the IRA.

Whatever you or i think about the history of the 6 counties and the tragedy of the place , for a major uk party to be seen as consorting with england enemies ( or even just talking to them ) is political madness.

After all these years in Labour politics, I've come to realise one thing about the party: it's the vainest of political organisations. The party's virtue signalling, under Corbyn especially, is so developed that Labour has its own semaphore no one but the initiated understand. The electorate are turned off. The bits they can decipher, they don't like. Some of the translation they find offensive and just plain nasty.

This bit echoes what many on forums such as this say about labour...........

For me, to be told my party didn't put the country first, sided with the foe and not the friend, stung the most.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Wilson_(British_politician)

Wilson later worked as a gambling lobbyist for the Gala Coral Group in the lead up to the passing of the 2005 Gambling Act, and as a director at London based public affairs consultancy Fellows' Associates.[6][7]

Wilson is known for being one of the "Famous Five", a group of local Labour Party members who helped a young Tony Blair get selected as the Labour candidate for Sedgefield for the 1983 general election.[3] He subsequently worked for Tony Blair in his constituency office, the Labour Party and a PR company.
----

Hmm, didn't Murdoch and The Sun etc back Blair?

Ok, so the SNP don't have any media support except thenational - but Scots know their media is English Brit Nat-dominated, so it's different.

[Borg Refinery]

But you pointed out yourself that 46% has won FPTP elections.

Blair won a massive seat majority under the FPTP stitch up on less than 25 % of the electorate. Doesnt make it right , it isnt an electoral majority , but it was still significant.

Still , you chase the republican sympathy vote if it makes you feel happy.

It will be fun watching the english give you a kicking over it.

I understand why you hate Labour, I've said as much. But why do you hate any 'brit left' (which is a term that doesn't apply).

I've stated my preference is zn English version of the SNP.

You said the SNP are centre-right, so how am I a leftist? And before you start, Salmond was part of the 79 group originally as qi recall - it is a broad tent.

Would you call Sturgeon's 2019 pledge to abolish all care home fees 'centre right'?

I'p not planning on voting for Labour, or reforming it, or anything else.

Im not saying you are. We are discussing labours republican sympathy , and why the english electorate dont like it.

They are non-existent, there is nothing not to support.

Labour are a Unionist party. Corbyn was forced to put his sympathies in a bottle.

"I stated that we need new parties and I place no faith in Labour.

"WE" dont need anything dyno ."YOU" might , but i keep telling you im implacably opposed to the brit left and whoever represents you. You need to listen to what im saying and not what you think im saying.

You oppose any future English SNP type party do you? That's what I want.

I thought you said you want us English to look zfter ourselves?

Yet when I suggest that, you say you will oppose it? Well, surely it's our issue and we don't want your support (as you say about us sticking our nose in in Scotland).

What have you got to say to that eh?

Not everywhere is like George Square.

(Hey, you provoked that response).

Well that was your fellow brits out with their butchers flags. Thats why when you said about "convincing people" , thats what i thought you meant ....brit style.

Fellow Brits? They were Glaswegians, they're on my side? How? I'm not a Unionist unless you're suggesting I'm a liar?

I'm not defending it Thomas.

I'm explaining why it's no worse than anyone else's.

And im explaining the oppostie to you and why its toxic. You know , me a scot , telling an englishman why its toxic for his party or political ideology to support irish republicanism.........jeeez.

You're telling me what I should believe is what you're saying, because it's not popular with Brit Nats.

I'll stick to my own beliefs thanks.

It's zlso not Labour's republican stance.

Labour are a Unionist party, why are you rewriting history?

Many in labour  , especailly from corbyns era , tell us scots some "unionism" matters more than others eh dyno?

Are you saying that's my belief? That's a way of saying I'm a liar Thomas.

I know you need someone to wind up on a typical sunday, but I suggest the local coffee bar where you can wind up trendy lefties, I'm not biting.

We are only talking on an obscure interwebby forum dyno , and im merely the messenger so dont shoot me.

You're the aggressive one, don't shoot you!? Don't shoot me!

Call it helpfull advice, but like our friend srb you dont want to listen. Its fine honest im cool about it dyno.

Thanks for the advice!

Are you saying it would only have benefited the SNP and no one else?

Btw if Scotland leaves, who do you think that helps? The Tories?

Im not bothered who it helps , but surely you arent daft enough to realise the electoral damage it would do to labour , not to mention any help they might get from being in partnership might be very short lived as the price would be an indyref?

So yes , overwhelmingly it helps the snp far more than labour , doesnt damage the snp electorally but does labour , and helps the tories either way.

You couldn't be more wrong.

It helps the SNP and it helps Labour/any other party

If Scotland keaves then the Tories will be accused of destroying the Union. Which they kinda did.

It's quite simple, really.

Do you think if scotland stays it helps the english left or something? The jocks will evnetually come to their sense and go back to being good left wing brits?

Where did you come up with that rubbish?

You are paranoid that I am planning a secret takeover of Dcotland? Maybe I'll get Kemp and the other super army soldiers to mount a takeover of Holyrood, I don't know, we'll see.
"Honestly dyno , what the matter wae you."

What's the matter with you?

Unlike the DUP?

the DUP are loyal british , the snp and sinn fein anti british. Do you need this explaining to you? seriously? Why one is acceptable and the other two arent?

Jesus feck dyno .

Um, DUP are loyalist terrorist supporters, ok SF are not great either.. but they were fighting for independence, not that that makes it ok, but there is a difference.

Are you daft enough to lump the SNP in with them?

Well I guess they stole abrelic from some English museum decades ago, maybe that's terrorism..

'my' idealistic fantasies have never been tested.

The rest of your post excepted as it's wind up merchznt stuff.

ok mate fair enough i accept your surrender

I surrender to the fact that you are on the wind up and are in story mode, where you write people's posts for them.

[Thomas]

Labour has lost four elections in nine years. Some may blame the wrong policies, the media, even the electorate. Whatever the argument to explain Labour's defeats, it seems always to be drawn from the deep well of victimhood, because it's always someone else's fault. But it isn't. It's ours. The Labour Party.

Corbyn brought a worldview alien to the Labour Party. A worldview that belonged on the fringes. With his victory, that worldview became centre stage and all those who lived on the fringes with him found their home centre stage too. The pseudo-Marxists, Bennites, anti-Semites and cultists all thought it was their turn to run Labour. So they did. The doors were flung open to people in their image, creating a dystopian Labour Party, not recognisable to many of its existing members, never mind our supporters. Some of the zealots I came across, if you uttered one word of doubt about the competence of their leader you felt as though, if it were five hundred years ago, you would have been burnt at the stake. Such was the fundamental intolerance of the cult around him.

The cult's only mission was to take control of the Labour Party. The priority was not the communities we serve, but the cult's hard-left ambitions. It was nothing to do with Labour voters, but all to do with finding a home for their vanity project. Tasteless and selfish, their project is on the verge of destroying the Labour Party

I thought these were wise words dyno....

Any criticism of the leadership was the fault of the mainstream media. The print media has always held an anti-Labour bent, but has never stopped the election of Labour governments in the past. The lesson is: if you believe the press is not your natural ally, don't make it easy for them. If you don't want the press to write you are a terrorist sympathiser, don't lay a wreath at the grave of a terrorist. If you don't want the press to write you are a friend of Hamas or Hezbollah, don't call them your friends. If you don't want the press to write you associate with the IRA, don't associate with the IRA. If you don't want the press to doubt your patriotism, don't give Russia the benefit of the doubt over the Salisbury poisonings or take money from Iranian state media. If you want the press to highlight your aversion to antisemitism, don't share a platform with known anti-Semites and defend antisemitic murals.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour-leadership-race/2020/03/labours-mess-predictable-result-leader-and-philosophy-hated



What i said to you earlier dyno , that corbyns child like naivety and those on the brit left gave the press red meat to chew on over things like the IRA.

Whatever you or i think about the history of the 6 counties and the tragedy of the place , for a major uk party to be seen as consorting with england enemies ( or even just talking to them ) is political madness.

After all these years in Labour politics, I've come to realise one thing about the party: it's the vainest of political organisations. The party's virtue signalling, under Corbyn especially, is so developed that Labour has its own semaphore no one but the initiated understand. The electorate are turned off. The bits they can decipher, they don't like. Some of the translation they find offensive and just plain nasty.

This bit echoes what many on forums such as this say about labour...........

For me, to be told my party didn't put the country first, sided with the foe and not the friend, stung the most.

[Thomas]

But you pointed out yourself that 46% has won FPTP elections.

Blair won a massive seat majority under the FPTP stitch up on less than 25 % of the electorate. Doesnt make it right , it isnt an electoral majority , but it was still significant.

Still , you chase the republican sympathy vote if it makes you feel happy.

It will be fun watching the english give you a kicking over it.

I'p not planning on voting for Labour, or reforming it, or anything else.

Im not saying you are. We are discussing labours republican sympathy , and why the english electorate dont like it.

"I stated that we need new parties and I place no faith in Labour.

"WE" dont need anything dyno ."YOU" might , but i keep telling you im implacably opposed to the brit left and whoever represents you. You need to listen to what im saying and not what you think im saying.

Not everywhere is like George Square.

(Hey, you provoked that response).

Well that was your fellow brits out with their butchers flags. Thats why when you said about "convincing people" , thats what i thought you meant ....brit style.

I'm not defending it Thomas.

I'm explaining why it's no worse than anyone else's.

And im explaining the oppostie to you and why its toxic. You know , me a scot , telling an englishman why its toxic for his party or political ideology to support irish republicanism.........jeeez.

It's zlso not Labour's republican stance.

Labour are a Unionist party, why are you rewriting history?

Many in labour  , especailly from corbyns era , tell us scots some "unionism" matters more than others eh dyno?

I know you need someone to wind up on a typical sunday, but I suggest the local coffee bar where you can wind up trendy lefties, I'm not biting.

We are only talking on an obscure interwebby forum dyno , and im merely the messenger so dont shoot me.

Call it helpfull advice, but like our friend srb you dont want to listen. Its fine honest im cool about it dyno.

Are you saying it would only have benefited the SNP and no one else?

Btw if Scotland leaves, who do you think that helps? The Tories?

Im not bothered who it helps , but surely you arent daft enough to realise the electoral damage it would do to labour , not to mention any help they might get from being in partnership might be very short lived as the price would be an indyref?

So yes , overwhelmingly it helps the snp far more than labour , doesnt damage the snp electorally but does labour , and helps the tories either way.

Do you think if scotland stays it helps the english left or something? The jocks will evnetually come to their sense and go back to being good left wing brits?

Honestly dyno , what the matter wae you.

A future party -

You have been talking about reforming the lords for a century or more , so by the time englands sorts out a future party hopefuly we will be long gone.

I stated that we need new parties and I place no faith in Labour. It would be preferable if you based your words on what people actually write, it is an unfortunate habit of yours this adding things."

i know you did , and i stated the same about the wider british left including you many a time , so touche old bean.

Unlike the DUP?

the DUP are loyal british , the snp and sinn fein anti british. Do you need this explaining to you? seriously? Why one is acceptable and the other two arent?

Jesus feck dyno .

'my' idealistic fantasies have never been tested.

The rest of your post excepted as it's wind up merchznt stuff.

ok mate fair enough i accept your surrender

[Thomas]

I have called you a Blairite-loving, Brexit-supporting, aberration of an angry Scot SNP man.

You have called many people similar names across many threads on this forum who dont agree with you and your party.

It was only on here the other day i pointed out , when you were calling the poster deppity dawg a hard right tory or some other such nonsense , that he was a former labour voter in northern england.

....you carry on insulting the electorate though  , and we will remember it at the ballot box.

Im not a blairite lover  , i vote snp , i voted remain but respect democracy , and im not angry unlike you.

You have done little but defend Blairites against my attacks whenever they have been mentioned, for one thing.

Where?

What i have done is point out how extreme you sound talking about your own fellow party members , and showing how ridiculous you sound trying to play the moderate.

You seemingly fail to understand the relevance of their role in the collapse of support for Labour in Scotland. Or perhaps you do and that's why you love them. Lol

...and your demented rantings seem to show you somehow believe prior to 1997 , and the rise of tony blair , it was all a big bed of roses for labour in scotland , and im trying to educate you that wasnt the case and that the rot had long set in before blair took control.

...but you dont want to listen do you?

Its easy to blame blair solely as the scapegoat for labours failure in scotland , while ignoring the fact he hasnt been in charge since 2007 , 13 years ago , and for the last five , corbyn and his hand picked men have been in charge.

Why do you see it as your role - as an SNP Scot - to defend Blairites against me?

Where? Show me what you are talking about please?

You do realise that they are even more implacably opposed to Scottish independence than we on the left are? At least we are prepared to respect democracy as expressed by Scots at the ballot box. The Blairites don't care about democracy unless it can be made to work the way they want it to.

FFS . Dynamis has also pointed out to you now a number of times corbyns ludicrous and shifting position on scottish indy , and all you shout in reply its all the blairites fault , and you accuse me of talking bollocks?

[Borg Refinery]

Sure, but it is significant.

wurzels 32% in the decemeber 2019 general election was significant also , but its still a minority.

But you pointed out yourself that 46% has won FPTP elections.

Why are you acting as if norn iron would be the centrepiece of any manifesto?

Im not. Im telling you labours support for the republicans was a millstone around your neck with the english people.

...but you carry on.

I'p not planning on voting for Labour, or reforming it, or anything else.

"I stated that we need new parties and I place no faith in Labour. It would be preferable if you based your words on what people actually write, it is an unfortunate habit of yours this adding things."

I guess you are already inventing my beliefs for me Thomas. Thanks for being a mind reader, it must be a useful skill.

Can you tell me next week's lottery numbers while you're at it please?

Explain yourself then ? What do you mean convince them?

With boots and fists?

Not everywhere is like George Square.

(Hey, you provoked that response).

How apt

Especially for labour  and the brit left eh?

It would be preferable if you based your words on what people actually write,

I am , but to be fair you are being very vague in your attempt to defend labours republican stance.

I'm not defending it Thomas.

I'm explaining why it's no worse than anyone else's.

It's zlso not Labour's republican stance.

Labour are a Unionist party, why are you rewriting history? I know you need someone to wind up on a typical sunday, but I suggest the local coffee bar where you can wind up trendy lefties, I'm not biting.

That's where you are wrong.

Sturgeon explicitly said that if Corbyn had a preferable indyref position - she'd have worked with him.

course she did , as did salmond with milliband in 2015. Wonderfull bit of politicing that both the snp and tories took advantage of. It was and remains a win win for the snp either way.

Not too sharp at this politics malarkey dyno are you on the brit left?

Are you saying it would only have benefited the SNP and no one else?

Btw if Scotland leaves, who do you think that helps? The Tories?

This applies to any future party apart from Labour in England.

Dont understand your point. Who else could the snp "work with" in england in the FPTP stitch up , and secondly hopefully we wont be in the uk much longer to worry about it.

A future party -

"
I stated that we need new parties and I place no faith in Labour. It would be preferable if you based your words on what people actually write, it is an unfortunate habit of yours this adding things."

The same goes for electoral alliances in NI.

..Thus clearly proving the truth of my point Thomas.

The brit left working with the snp and sinn fein..........feckin hell boris would think xmas had come early.

Unlike the DUP?

No.

What's idealistic fantasy is saying that Boris will somehow run the country so well after his disastrous stint as foreign secretary. I've mentioned this in real life so real Tory supporters.

Not one of them could deny how true that is - they were forced to agree - not because I was rude or browbeating, but because I was absolutely polite and honest.

So proving that an idealistic fantasy already was voted for!

My 'idealistic fantasy' and childish naivete and whatever other charming praise you want to heap on me, is much less 'out there' than what's already won an election!

Sorry dyno , but this seems a bit of a rant and you have completely lost me.

'my' idealistic fantasies have never been tested.

The rest of your post excepted as it's wind up merchznt stuff.

[srb7677]

You are the one might i remind you who is going around this forum calling people right wing tories and blairite lovers simply because they dont agree with your politics.

I have called you a Blairite-loving, Brexit-supporting, aberration of an angry Scot SNP man. Because frankly that is how you come across. You have done little but defend Blairites against my attacks whenever they have been mentioned, for one thing. You seemingly fail to understand the relevance of their role in the collapse of support for Labour in Scotland. Or perhaps you do and that's why you love them. Lol

Why do you see it as your role - as an SNP Scot - to defend Blairites against me? Lmfao. You do realise that they are even more implacably opposed to Scottish independence than we on the left are? At least we are prepared to respect democracy as expressed by Scots at the ballot box. The Blairites don't care about democracy unless it can be made to work the way they want it to.

[Thomas]

You seem to operate on the principle that if you talk shit often enough and long-windedly enough, it becomes more true. But you are kidding yourself. It remains bollocks.

You are a deluded hard left zealot trying , and miserably failing , to pass yourself and your hero wurzel off as moderates.

The only cant on this forum kidding themself on in their delusion is feckin you.

If i present criticsim to you from within your own labour party , you scream its all a blairite conspiracy.

If i present evidence to you from around the country , you scream they are right wing brexiters , nasty nationalists , or horrible tories.

All a big feckin delusion to you as to why you couldnt get elected twice in 2 years under your hero corbyn  and why labour havent been near power for a decade and counting.

Its all one big conspiracy against you while you absoultely fail in any way to try and understand why people dont like your party under corbyn and wouldnt vote for you. All you have to cling to is a few risible policies that some folk quite liked , but not enough to get you into power in 2017.

[Thomas]

That frankly is risible bollocks. Arthur Scargill - whilst actually right about the threat to miners' jobs - was in many ways a fool. John Smith was not a Tory. Neil Kinnock was not a Tory. Even Gordon Brown was not a Tory. I will even go so far as to say neither Vince Cable nor Caroline Lucas nor Nicola Sturgeon are Tories, and they aint even in my party. Lol

You seem to operate on the principle that if you talk shit often enough and long-windedly enough, it becomes more true. But you are kidding yourself. It remains bollocks.

Is this some sort of reverse psychology?

You are the one might i remind you who is going around this forum calling people right wing tories and blairite lovers simply because they dont agree with your politics.

[Thomas]

The hard left - of your own obsessive imagination

Its terminology your own fellow english , many of whom are labour party members who hold no truck with momentum , call you. I didnt invent it.

The hard left - of your own obsessive imagination - and the progressive left - of reality - are two very different things.

Of course they are , and hard left momentum just happen to not be hard left , but merely progressive eh?

Shame your fellow countrymen didnt agree with you over two elections in two years where you couldnt win.

The Blairites always were too strong in Scotland because the mass influx of progressive new members failed to happen there.

Eh?

Is this you re writing history?

Labour were in charge of glasgow for example since the 1930`s , and their corruption , wastefullness , profligacy and self interest was legendary long before anyone had coined the term blairite.

Many progressive people had long left labour before tony blair went any where near the reigns of power.

during the Corbyn era the progressive left made some gains internally

spit the tea out moment.

Is that what you call the hounding out of anyone not a momentum cult member in scottish labour?

I think we can start calling you momentums lord haw haw FFS!

though this was way too late to win over progressive Scots in a hurry,

Eh corbyn was in charge of labour for the best part of five years no?

and nowhere near convincing enough with so many Blairites at large

i know mate ,the blairite mind control was too strong for most of us. We could not resist.

. But it has gone into reverse now. You should be pleased. Because it means Labour is doomed in Scotland.

couldnt give a feck to be honest steve , i just want to live in a normal independent country and not have to listen to the pish being spouted by political parties from yours.