Why Labour lost.

[Thomas]

BS.

I accepted that Boris won the '19 GE..effectively showing that people embraced the result. I said no deal is pretty much their course and there's no fighting it anymore.

It's true that prior to that I was skeptical, but that's irrelevant. Farage himself said "a 48/52 result would be unfinished business by a long way" and hinted that Brexiters would challenge the result if they got 48% of the result.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

As it turned out, the results were reversed.

You were on our forum before the general election result , and like many on the "left" , were hopefull that brexiters were going to get a kicking the the GE and the anti democrats stop brexit.

When johnson won , you capitulated , and now like every other remainer , merely come on here to whine about brexit and moan about the tories.

For the record , let me repeat  , no one is saying you cant campaign for england to re join the eu , far from it.

....but only once democracy has been served in 17 weeks and after four years of anti democratically fighting it , the winnners claiming their brexit prize.

[Thomas]

But I'm not a Unionist.

Are you getting that yet? I don't tend to identify myself as British, only English.

ok , but you originally told me on this forum you were british , now you are back being english only , when we can see from your ealrier quote how you easily conflate the two.

So what?

So you arent (now) british  , you are english. Brilliant.

Well done you.

So what do you want me to do about it?

You want an english snp . go for it. Dont tell me.

I cant vote an english snp into power for you.

[Thomas]

What Scotland does is a matter for Scotland. But Scottish independence would not prevent me - as a resident of the island of Britain - from being British, anymore than it would prevent me from being European.

You slither into hiding behind the geographical name britian , when we all know you meant nation and nationality , of which britain is the colloquial term for uk.

[Thomas]

I think you're right..he's just hopelessly confused and lashing out in any which direction.

My political views have remained consistent for years dyno , while yours are all over the place ,and you dont know the difference between england and britian.

In chilled , got the popcorn out and im sitting back watching you on the brit left go into meltdown becuase hard brexit is only 17 weeks away.

I'm afraid this is ridiculous.

The post of mine you never responded to completely showed you up as hopelessly confused. As jaydee says over on pofo uk .. "you are waffling 100% incoherent utter unadulterated pish".

Says the man who conflated england and britian earlier.

[Thomas]

He is indeed hopelessly confused in his rants. On the one hand he rejects the very notion of Britishness, with anyone who thinks of themselves as British supposedly being a hopeless unionist. Yet he defends and supports the Brexit vote as a British vote, even though his own nation rejected it. Lmfao.

He also claims to hate the left, even though the SNP is mostly a left leaning party.

you can talk to me rather than about me .

If you see yourself as british , then quite clearly you belive in the union  , as scotland make sup the top third of the british island , and without scotland , there is no "britian" ( colloquial for uk). Its not a difficult proposition SRB.

I have explained my position on the brexit vote many a time , so no need to go back over old ground.

Unlike you , i am a democract.

As usual with you labour types , you will say anything to anyone to gain support  , and try to be all things to all men to win elections.

Despite that policy failing badly for a decade now , you still dont learn.

You say you are british , but then tell me you dont believe in britian.

You say you are a democrat , but then tell us you only believe in democracy when it suits.

You say you are a moderate , but then go on to post hate filled hard left rants in contradiction.

I say you are full of shit like your party.

He also claims to hate the left, even though the SNP is mostly a left leaning party.

Are you stupid?

The snp are a scottish centrist party as we discussed. If they were a scottish left wing party , which they are not , and i supported them , how is this me contradicting myself?

The SNP are not a british party. The snp are not a british left wing party.

Keep repeating it in your head till you get it SRB.

[Thomas]

The Brexit vote was won on a tissue of false promises. There was therefore a good argument for asking the people to confirm or reject the final outcome once the facts became known. But Leavers were transparently scared that some might have changed their minds. They were thus the ones running scared from democracy.

Democracy works on the principle that you hold a referendum , or an election , have the vote , and then the winner claim the prize.

Every election labour lose they moan the tories "lie " to win , yet after the result ,the tories claim their prize and become government . The reverse is true as well.

Why should the brexit referendum be any different Simply becasue you dont like the result.

There was no good argument to hold another referendum , the people saw thorugh your bullshit and hammered you at the ballot box accordingly.

End of story.

[johnofgwent]

I don't really understand why there are so many theories as to why Labour lost and will continue to do so. It's simple.

The women saw through them. They watched as Corbyn promised the earth. They saw how unstable he was and that he could only lose his temper if crossed. They recognised a man who although skilled in whipping up a young audience gave little else and had only one script. They saw someone not fit to be PM on all sorts of fronts. His lack of respect to those institutions held dear in this country, his lack of statesmanship (although BJ can fudge that one well enough), his lack of tolerance and the risk of a party that had no effective leader and who played both sides to the middle on Brexit. They saw a party battling with itself and then they worked on the menfolk by pointing out in clear terms the Labour failings.

Many recognise the female ability to see character or lack of it. Labour lacked and women lead the country in their vote.  My mother voted Labour all her adult life - I am pretty certain that even she would not vote for Labour now. She was a very good judge of character.

So you're saying Labour lost because of their enthusiasm for Universal Suffrage.

Toots, you just brightened up a miserable year.

[DeppityDawg]

"Your way" was the way you wanted the vote to go, ie for Brexit. You were afraid a vote to approve or reject the final outcome might not have approved it. You were running scared of letting people have that choice.

I voted remain. How arrogantly stupid do you  look now. Your.spitting and snarling contempt is the very example of everything that's wrong with the modern Labour party. Thomas has got you absolutely nailed on.

Tell you want SRB, let's just forget this whole conversation. It's clearly not even worth the effort for you to find out the facts before you jump to conclusions, and I'm not wasting my time with someone who holds me in such contempt.

[T00ts]

I don't really understand why there are so many theories as to why Labour lost and will continue to do so. It's simple.

The women saw through them. They watched as Corbyn promised the earth. They saw how unstable he was and that he could only lose his temper if crossed. They recognised a man who although skilled in whipping up a young audience gave little else and had only one script. They saw someone not fit to be PM on all sorts of fronts. His lack of respect to those institutions held dear in this country, his lack of statesmanship (although BJ can fudge that one well enough), his lack of tolerance and the risk of a party that had no effective leader and who played both sides to the middle on Brexit. They saw a party battling with itself and then they worked on the menfolk by pointing out in clear terms the Labour failings.

Many recognise the female ability to see character or lack of it. Labour lacked and women lead the country in their vote.  My mother voted Labour all her adult life - I am pretty certain that even she would not vote for Labour now. She was a very good judge of character.

[srb7677]

It's simple enough. Once we knew the real outcome and not the moonshine we were sold, it was reasonable to have us vote to approve or reject that. That's democracy. But you were afraid of it in case it didn't go your way.

And what was "my way" SRB? Do you actually read anything anyone else says?

"Your way" was the way you wanted the vote to go, ie for Brexit. You were afraid a vote to approve or reject the final outcome might not have approved it. You were running scared of letting people have that choice.

[DeppityDawg]

It's simple enough. Once we knew the real outcome and not the moonshine we were sold, it was reasonable to have us vote to approve or reject that. That's democracy. But you were afraid of it in case it didn't go your way.

And what was "my way" SRB? Do you actually read anything anyone else says?

[srb7677]

I'm still waiting for SRB to explain how I was "afraid of democracy"

It's simple enough. Once we knew the real outcome and not the moonshine we were sold, it was reasonable to have us vote to approve or reject that. That's democracy. But you were afraid of it in case it didn't go your way.

[Baff]

There is a Xyclone B joke to be had in there somewhere.

[Sheepy]

I get one of those feelings when you were denounced as far right it was an eye opener.

Thats the left these days. Anyone who doesn't share their views is 'far right', or a nazi or a racist and so on. Used to it by now.

Well don't be thinking this means we will sharing early morning showers or anything. 

[DeppityDawg]

I get one of those feelings when you were denounced as far right it was an eye opener.

Thats the left these days. Anyone who doesn't share their views is 'far right', or a nazi or a racist and so on. Used to it by now.