Why Labour lost.

[Borg Refinery]

Where did I state that Corbyn should just "stop" Brexit?

You will have to quote me.

Read what i have written and not what you think i have written.

(bangs head against wall)


You were on our forum before the general election result , and like many on the "left" , were hopefull that brexiters were going to get a kicking the the GE and the anti democrats stop brexit.

I abstained in the referendum as I pointed out to you in Nov.

I like the EU but I'm not a 'Brit remainer' or a 'Brit anti democrat'

Dynamis , dont you think this "politically neutral highly impartial forum member " scam who just happens to bombard the forum every day with anti brexit propaganda is getting a bit much now?
[/quote]

I hate the Tories more than papa, if they remained with Cameron's shitty deal, I'd probably be criticizing them just as much and maybe a bit more.

Don't blame me that they put Theresa May and ten Boris in charge after that idiot Cameron. Are you saying they handled things well?

[Borg Refinery]

Thomas will be fecking gutted now. One of the Bay City Rollers just croaked

😆

[Thomas]

Yet you are all in favour of a British vote and it's mandate, in spite of the fact that your own nation and people rejected it. So clearly British is more important to you than Scottish when it suits you.

Well lets investigate that.

My clear and long held position for the last four years since the brexit vote has been democracy must be respected.......scotland and northern ireland voted remain , so should remain , and england and wales voted leave , so should leave.

What did hard left moderate labour tell us?

"it was a yookay vote , not scottish vote , and scotlands vote only counts when it is usefull to labour as voting fodder."

So labour droned on , how bad brexit is going to be  , armageddon etc etc , and scotland said "if brexit is going to be so bad , then in the upcoming election (2019) we will help labour into power if we win and labour get enough seats , and in return , you give us an independence referendum."

Labours response.?

Labour rules out SNP deal
McDonnell says second independence vote will not be traded for power

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/labour-rules-out-snp-deal-khwn5mpbz

So to recap hard left labours position , brexit is going to be bad really bad , but if they cant use the scottish as voting fodder to stop england leaving , then scotland must be dragged through the brexit mud instead .


Labour anti democratically want to stop england leaving the eu , and anti democratically want to stop scotland remaining in the eu without england.

Like I said, confused or what?

Like i said , you , like your party , are full of shit or what?

[Thomas]

Where did I state that Corbyn should just "stop" Brexit?

You will have to quote me.

Read what i have written and not what you think i have written.

I abstained in the referendum as I pointed out to you in Nov.

I like the EU but I'm not a 'Brit remainer' or a 'Brit anti democrat'

Dynamis , dont you think this "politically neutral highly impartial forum member " scam who just happens to bombard the forum every day with anti brexit propaganda is getting a bit much now?

[DeppityDawg]

Thomas will be fecking gutted now. One of the Bay City Rollers just croaked

[Sheepy]

You are indeed hopelessly confused. On the one hand you reject the very notion of Britishness, with anyone who thinks of themselves as British supposedly being a hopeless unionist.

I do reject the notion of britishness.

...and i stand by the fact britishness comes hand in hand with the union. You do realise before the original monarchial union of 1603 , no one called themselves british. You had to go back to the tenth century when the original british  , the welsh , changed their names form being britons to cymry , the compatriots?

Historically the english never ever called themselves britons , the british were the people they termed the foreigners.....the welsh.

It was only once past the monarchial union of 1603 the name started coming into use by the "british nobility" ,as a sop to celtic sensibilities , then in 1707 and further 1801 , the name came to mean both this island of great britian . and the irish were being termed the west britons.

So anyone with any sense and knowledge can see the whole name is bound up in the feckin union , and prior to the union , the name meant nothing to the english historically.

Yet you are all in favour of a British vote and it's mandate, in spite of the fact that your own nation and people rejected it. So clearly British is more important to you than Scottish when it suits you.

Like I said, confused or what?

Oh sure he is, so confused the SNP have just launched its plans for their next referendum, so I guess I was right then.

[srb7677]

You are indeed hopelessly confused. On the one hand you reject the very notion of Britishness, with anyone who thinks of themselves as British supposedly being a hopeless unionist.

I do reject the notion of britishness.

...and i stand by the fact britishness comes hand in hand with the union. You do realise before the original monarchial union of 1603 , no one called themselves british. You had to go back to the tenth century when the original british  , the welsh , changed their names form being britons to cymry , the compatriots?

Historically the english never ever called themselves britons , the british were the people they termed the foreigners.....the welsh.

It was only once past the monarchial union of 1603 the name started coming into use by the "british nobility" ,as a sop to celtic sensibilities , then in 1707 and further 1801 , the name came to mean both this island of great britian . and the irish were being termed the west britons.

So anyone with any sense and knowledge can see the whole name is bound up in the feckin union , and prior to the union , the name meant nothing to the english historically.

Yet you are all in favour of a British vote and it's mandate, in spite of the fact that your own nation and people rejected it. So clearly British is more important to you than Scottish when it suits you.

Like I said, confused or what?

[Borg Refinery]

BS.

I accepted that Boris won the '19 GE..effectively showing that people embraced the result. I said no deal is pretty much their course and there's no fighting it anymore.

It's true that prior to that I was skeptical, but that's irrelevant. Farage himself said "a 48/52 result would be unfinished business by a long way" and hinted that Brexiters would challenge the result if they got 48% of the result.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

As it turned out, the results were reversed.

You were on our forum before the general election result , and like many on the "left" , were hopefull that brexiters were going to get a kicking the the GE and the anti democrats stop brexit.

Where did I state that Corbyn should just "stop" Brexit?

You will have to quote me.

When johnson won , you capitulated , and now like every other remainer , merely come on here to whine about brexit and moan about the tories.

For the record , let me repeat  , no one is saying you can't campaign for england to re join the eu , far from it.

....but only once democracy has been served in 17 weeks and after four years of anti democratically fighting it , the winnners claiming their brexit prize.

I abstained in the referendum as I pointed out to you in Nov.

I like the EU but I'm not a 'Brit remainer' or a 'Brit anti democrat'.

At no point did I say we should just cancel Brexit or keep holding referendums. Did you see my post to Depitty where I quoted myself from another forum from Dec 2015 where I pointed out that Remain would want to hold another ref?

I held that another ref was pointless as the exact same type of cheating and lying on both sides would play out.

I assumed that the only real course of action was one of the crappy Tory deals, but even that was naive, clearly.

Anyway, you will twist this into some big mass of shite and I can't be arsed so do what pleases you mate and bark at someone else

[T00ts]

So you're saying Labour lost because of their enthusiasm for Universal Suffrage.

Toots, you just brightened up a miserable year.

Happy to oblige!

[Thomas]

You are indeed hopelessly confused. On the one hand you reject the very notion of Britishness, with anyone who thinks of themselves as British supposedly being a hopeless unionist.

I do reject the notion of britishness.

...and i stand by the fact britishness comes hand in hand with the union. You do realise before the original monarchial union of 1603 , no one called themselves british. You had to go back to the tenth century when the original british  , the welsh , changed their names form being britons to cymry , the compatriots?

Historically the english never ever called themselves britons , the british were the people they termed the foreigners.....the welsh.

It was only once past the monarchial union of 1603 the name started coming into use by the "british nobility" ,as a sop to celtic sensibilities , then in 1707 and further 1801 , the name came to mean both this island of great britian . and the irish were being termed the west britons.

So anyone with any sense and knowledge can see the whole name is bound up in the feckin union , and prior to the union , the name meant nothing to the english historically.

[Thomas]

You slither into hiding behind the geographical name britian , when we all know you meant nation and nationality , of which britain is the colloquial term for uk.

Don't tell me what I meant you ignorant oaf. I have a better idea of that than you do. I meant and always meant that I am British by dint of the fact that I live in Britain, the island. It really is as simple as that.

Incidentally, Scotland is part of the island of Britain too as well as England and Wales. That makes you British as well in my book, .

So you "british" alone in the world call yourself british and issue british passports by light of the fact you live on an island that bears the geographical name?

You the norwegians dont call themselves scnadinavian by nationality or issue scandinavian passports do they? Or the spanish iberia?

Dont try and wriggle out of what we are talking about you slithering momemtum muppet.

We are on a politics forum talking politics , not geography bandying about  geographical names.

We all know why you call yourself british , because by your own earlier admission you believe in britain as a country and nationality ( colloquial for uk) and even your pal dynais picked you up on your contradictory stance earlier...

I don't think it makes you a 'hardcore' unionist but surely your belief that Labour ought to be in power in Scotland, and your being against Scotland leaving makes you a unionist?

Not having a dig, just clarifying.

So its not jjust me picking you up on the utter bullshit you talk.

[srb7677]

You were on our forum before the general election result , and like many on the "left" , were hopefull that brexiters were going to get a kicking the the GE and the anti democrats stop brexit.

When johnson won , you capitulated , and now like every other remainer , merely come on here to whine about brexit and moan about the tories.

For the record , let me repeat  , no one is saying you can't campaign for england to re join the eu , far from it.

....but only once democracy has been served in 17 weeks and after four years of anti democratically fighting it , the winnners claiming their brexit prize.

You are indeed hopelessly confused. On the one hand you reject the very notion of Britishness, with anyone who thinks of themselves as British supposedly being a hopeless unionist. Yet you defend and support the Brexit vote as a British vote, even though your own nation rejected it. Lmfao.

[Thomas]

If I had to give a personal view I think the Scots are a good source of progressive left votes -

My what a condescending prick you are.

Glad scotland were once of some small use to you milord.

Give us a pat on the back and a doggy biscuit.

Labours attitude to their old scottish fiefdom in all its glory here.

Further why is it you always claim the left as progressive?

All parties have progressive and regressive policies.

For example ,the centre right conservative party recently had progressive policies in both the furlough scheme , and the eat out to help out scheme.

[Thomas]

The Brexit vote was won on a tissue of false promises. There was therefore a good argument for asking the people to confirm or reject the final outcome once the facts became known. But Leavers were transparently scared that some might have changed their minds. They were thus the ones running scared from democracy.

So in other words, you are "democratic to the core" only when it suits you

No. I advocated our final departure terms having a democratic mandate. You were afraid of democracy just in case you didn't get the result you wanted. Yes I am democratic to the core. Not so sure about you.

I was one of the ones advocating more democracy here, not you.

You are all over the place.

In 2017 , hard left  corbyns labour stood on a brexit manifesto to enact the referendum result .

Then the remainers in both labour  , and other parties , carried on anti democratically fighting brexit by telling us parliament is sovereign , it doesnt have to enact the referendum result , so twos up suckers.

So is it any wonder when you fautously proposed another referndum on brexit for whatever bullshit reason , the public angrily rejected labours nonsense.

[srb7677]

You slither into hiding behind the geographical name britian , when we all know you meant nation and nationality , of which britain is the colloquial term for uk.

Don't tell me what I meant you ignorant oaf. I have a better idea of that than you do. I meant and always meant that I am British by dint of the fact that I live in Britain, the island. It really is as simple as that.

Incidentally, Scotland is part of the island of Britain too as well as England and Wales. That makes you British as well in my book, .