Time-wasting UK makes post-Brexit deal unlikely, says Barnier

[GerryT]

Aw come on. We had a referendum where Cameron might just as well have been wrapped in an EU flag and they were made only too aware of it. Then poor May couldn't carry through because she put her trust in the wrong people. So the EU settled back in their seats waiting for the UK to implode. Trouble is the scenery has changed and the EU has the wrong glasses on. Of course they want to get the most beneficial circumstances for themselves, quite apart from the public flogging the commissioners will get if anyone the other side of the channel suffers. What really really grates is that the EU have decided that once an EU member then forever subservient to their whims. If they were negotiating with any other country the talks would be substantially different.

If we agree now they will move the goal posts and continue to do so and if it undermines our future they will give the continental shrug once again.

The EU has being very consistent it what it wants and what's on offer. There has been no goal post moves from the EU side. If you thing they have, can you give an example.
The UK on the other hand didn't even know what brexit meant, people had different versions of what it meant for them. From the start the UK red lines meant only a very basic deal could be struck. THe EU have being sitting back, not waiting for the UK to implode, but more for the UK to tell the EU what it want's and NOT what the UK doesn't want which is the usual message.

[Baff]

I don't believe I implied the EU were playing any games.

He stated both sides kinda wanted a loophole arrangelrnt without seeming weak - he's right

No you didn't imply that. But I don't agree the EU are worried one jot if they look weak. But it's important to the UK side, so the EU let the UK play to the domestic media/public and talk in terms of "winning" or "they need us more than we need them" etc... You never hear that talk from Barnier's team. Hence why I suggest that the UK is playing a game, or playing to the domestic Audience.

The EU are worried about EU collapse.
Brexit being the start of a general leaving of the EU.
They need to show the other EU members that leaving the EU is bad.

They have a domestic audience to play to also.
And like everyone else they have their pride.

You will constantly hear about the importance of the four pillars, the single market, or the size of the EU market and so on.
You will constantly hear about their other trade deals. Their being the worlds biggest market and what not.
How taken as a percentage Uk exports to the EU are greater than EU exports to the UK and that is why we will be more damaged.
How banks will leave the city because the EU market is more important. etc etc etc.
And how much self inflicted harm Brexit has done to the UK. And then a string of examples of how Brexit damages us.
They will tell us how the NI border is in the Irish Sea, because the EU says it has to be. And so on.

[T00ts]

I don't believe I implied the EU were playing any games.

He stated both sides kinda wanted a loophole arrangelrnt without seeming weak - he's right

No you didn't imply that. But I don't agree the EU are worried one jot if they look weak. But it's important to the UK side, so the EU let the UK play to the domestic media/public and talk in terms of "winning" or "they need us more than we need them" etc... You never hear that talk from Barnier's team. Hence why I suggest that the UK is playing a game, or playing to the domestic Audience.

.

Yes the UK is.

I think the EU wants the best arrangement that doesn't hurt it, whether by loopholes or otherwise, that's a more accurate revision of my statement I think.

But they are sick of our timewasting and who could blame them... we should've decided with steely determination what to do 6 months after the ref and not left our country and the EU hanging.

Aw come on. We had a referendum where Cameron might just as well have been wrapped in an EU flag and they were made only too aware of it. Then poor May couldn't carry through because she put her trust in the wrong people. So the EU settled back in their seats waiting for the UK to implode. Trouble is the scenery has changed and the EU has the wrong glasses on. Of course they want to get the most beneficial circumstances for themselves, quite apart from the public flogging the commissioners will get if anyone the other side of the channel suffers. What really really grates is that the EU have decided that once an EU member then forever subservient to their whims. If they were negotiating with any other country the talks would be substantially different.

If we agree now they will move the goal posts and continue to do so and if it undermines our future they will give the continental shrug once again.

[GerryT]

As someone who posts on many international forums I can indeed atest to the EU endlessly declaring wins.
If you think they are some higher species of humanity, they are not.

To give you some idea.
I think Gerry T here is an EU citisen, he is very focused on Brexit. I doubt however he has followed the EU's trade deals with China, Australia or New Zealand. Nor do I find any EU people discussing them particularly. I see the topics raised and no responses much made.
Occaisionally they got brought up to show us stupid Brexit people what we are missing and what the EU is achieving without us.
Much as you have just done.

I'm Irish, living in Dublin, that's common knowledge on here. I would participate on other non-UK sites but came here because of my interest in Brexit, and wanting to see what people of the UK thought rather than just conversing with a majority of Irish voices, which are in general pro EU and conversations are mostly one sided.
I do have an interest in other trade deals, especially the ones you mention and also the USA where the EU signed a mini trade deal just last week. What these deals do is strengthen or add to what we currently have, only in minor cases do they negatively impact IRL, but that does happen.
I do find it interesting that brexiteers call themselves stupid and level an accusation that is what others call them. I am not a Brexiteer or a Remainer, I just want a better understand of whats going on.

[Borg Refinery]

I don't believe I implied the EU were playing any games.

He stated both sides kinda wanted a loophole arrangelrnt without seeming weak - he's right

No you didn't imply that. But I don't agree the EU are worried one jot if they look weak. But it's important to the UK side, so the EU let the UK play to the domestic media/public and talk in terms of "winning" or "they need us more than we need them" etc... You never hear that talk from Barnier's team. Hence why I suggest that the UK is playing a game, or playing to the domestic Audience.

Yes the UK is.

I think the EU wants the best arrangement that doesn't hurt it, whether by loopholes or otherwise, that's a more accurate revision of my statement I think.

But they are sick of our timewasting and who could blame them... we should've decided with steely determination what to do 6 months after the ref and not left our country and the EU hanging.

[GerryT]

I don't believe I implied the EU were playing any games.

He stated both sides kinda wanted a loophole arrangelrnt without seeming weak - he's right

No you didn't imply that. But I don't agree the EU are worried one jot if they look weak. But it's important to the UK side, so the EU let the UK play to the domestic media/public and talk in terms of "winning" or "they need us more than we need them" etc... You never hear that talk from Barnier's team. Hence why I suggest that the UK is playing a game, or playing to the domestic Audience.

[Baff]

.

But then, they were always designed to be a way of both sides being able to declare a win.

Exactly.

The only side declaring a win is the UK, the EU isn't playing games. As far as most Europeen's are concerned Brexit is finished, the UK left back in January this year. The trade deals that are on top of the list are the one's being worked on with China, Australia and New Zealand.

As someone who posts on many international forums I can indeed atest to the EU endlessly declaring wins.
If you think they are some higher species of humanity, they are not.

To give you some idea.
I think Gerry T here is an EU citisen, he is very focused on Brexit. I doubt however he has followed the EU's trade deals with China, Australia or New Zealand. Nor do I find any EU people discussing them particularly. I see the topics raised and no responses much made.
Occaisionally they got brought up to show us stupid Brexit people what we are missing and what the EU is achieving without us.
Much as you have just done.

Marc Wesseling has a Youtube channel which addresses them. 
If a German take on that stuff interests you.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5pgKp96s69MkWILz06jj1w

[Borg Refinery]

.

But then, they were always designed to be a way of both sides being able to declare a win.

Exactly.

The only side declaring a win is the UK, the EU isn't playing games. As far as most Europeen's are concerned Brexit is finished, the UK left back in January this year. The trade deals that are on top of the list are the one's being worked on with China, Australia and New Zealand.

I don't believe I implied the EU were playing any games.

He stated both sides kinda wanted a loophole arrangelrnt without seeming weak - he's right

[GerryT]

.

But then, they were always designed to be a way of both sides being able to declare a win.

Exactly.

The only side declaring a win is the UK, the EU isn't playing games. As far as most Europeen's are concerned Brexit is finished, the UK left back in January this year. The trade deals that are on top of the list are the one's being worked on with China, Australia and New Zealand.

[Borg Refinery]

.

But then, they were always designed to be a way of both sides being able to declare a win.

Exactly.

[GerryT]

The level playing field clause was removed, but it doesn't much matter as the EU won't do a trade deal without this anyway, so a mute point.

I keep asking you this Gerry. Why do the EU want a level playing field? Is it because it is better on the outside of the cartel. Hmm

Personally I don't give a toss if the EU deal or not.

to protect eu business, but all trade deals do this. You put tariffs in where you want to protect. If your removing the tariff you may replace it with a quota or a level playing field. Every country does this. You count have a UK industry being financed by uk state aide competing without tariffs in the eu, thats not going to be allowed by the eu. You'll find the uk will do the same when it's negotiating  its own deals

[Baff]

I don't care if EU rules go unenforced.

I think its fair to say they are rightly worried about their lack of oversight in these matters.
It does indeed render the agreements they have made very fluffy.

But then, they were always designed to be a way of both sides being able to declare a win.

[Borg Refinery]

You seem to be reading the exemption rules for agriculture and extrapolating that to apply to all regulations and trade.

There are presumably ways of explpiting that loophole so the exemption can be applied to other things, you're smart and I'm sure you recognise what I mean.

That rather depends on who is enforcing those rules.
Which is us.

Exactly, because the Tories under May and now Bojo Cummings have done so well in administration & enforcement.

Certainly we can expect continued EU bleating.
Leaving the EU isn't going to change that part.

Of course.

[Baff]

You seem to be reading the exemption rules for agriculture and extrapolating that to apply to all regulations and trade.

There are presumably ways of explpiting that loophole so the exemption can be applied to other things, you're smart and I'm sure you recognise what I mean.

That rather depends on who is enforcing those rules.
Which is us.


Certainly we can expect continued EU bleating.
Leaving the EU isn't going to change that part.

[Nick]

The level playing field clause was removed, but it doesn't much matter as the EU won't do a trade deal without this anyway, so a mute point.

I keep asking you this Gerry. Why do the EU want a level playing field? Is it because it is better on the outside of the cartel. Hmm

Personally I don't give a toss if the EU deal or not.