Quangos bother me.

[T00ts]

What would you replace quangos with?  Direct ministerial control doesn't look all that appealing given recent history.  Complete privatisation would be a quick route to 'profits before people'.

Re. Public Health England specifically - surely that should be part of the NHS.

The concept of quangos isn't bad but like with any type of organisation their effectiveness depends on the ability of the people in charge.

Democratic accountability is the way forward, not unaccountable quangos, which have proliferated ever since the days of Thatcher as elected bodies were abolished, councils powers of oversight, and so on.

Who are these quangos accountable to? Ministers only? That leaves far too much power in the hands of the executive in an over-centralised state.

The trouble is that they appear not to be directly answerable to anyone. Plans to abandon them because of their lack of accountability has arisen more than once, but still they exist.

[srb7677]

What would you replace quangos with?  Direct ministerial control doesn't look all that appealing given recent history.  Complete privatisation would be a quick route to 'profits before people'.

Re. Public Health England specifically - surely that should be part of the NHS.

The concept of quangos isn't bad but like with any type of organisation their effectiveness depends on the ability of the people in charge.

Democratic accountability is the way forward, not unaccountable quangos, which have proliferated ever since the days of Thatcher as elected bodies were abolished, councils powers of oversight, and so on.

Who are these quangos accountable to? Ministers only? That leaves far too much power in the hands of the executive in an over-centralised state.

[johnofgwent]

What would you replace quangos with?  Direct ministerial control doesn't look all that appealing given recent history.  Complete privatisation would be a quick route to 'profits before people'.

Re. Public Health England specifically - surely that should be part of the NHS.

The concept of quangos isn't bad but like with any type of organisation their effectiveness depends on the ability of the people in charge.

The point is that ever since the 1970's appearance of the "Property Services Agency" to mismanage the selloff of government land and building assets usually to old school chums there has been a progression away from the wholly government owned department or facility (driver and vehicle licencing centre, television licensing centre, department of transport driving test centre, Highways department... all directly controlled organisations run by civil servants, to arms length "agencies" over whom the people have no accountability and whose idea of worth to the population are questionable to say the least. Take the DVLA as a prine example. It sent out a survey a few years back asking how those who "benefit" from its services would prefer to see the fees charged to those beneficiaries rise given the fact new vehicle ownership levels have fallen off a bloody cliff since Gordon Brown'd financial collapse and the antics of government since towards the motorist set a trend whereby only a bloody fool would buy a new car today. But the DVLA seem blinkered (or more likely their PR man is a twisted piece of shit) whose doublespeak and bent thinking projects the now largely unaccountable body - who are responsible for every single private land wheel clamping or penalty notice as prior to their prostituting themselves to tescos only the POLICE had legal access tothat information - as a cuddly bunny whereas in factit is a rabid diog that needs putting down.

[HDQQ]

What would you replace quangos with?  Direct ministerial control doesn't look all that appealing given recent history.  Complete privatisation would be a quick route to 'profits before people'.

Re. Public Health England specifically - surely that should be part of the NHS.

The concept of quangos isn't bad but like with any type of organisation their effectiveness depends on the ability of the people in charge.

[Sheepy]

That was my memory too, however the antics of Health England during the pandemic has proved the power they have in that they can act quite independently even without Ministerial knowledge. All it is achieving is in making Ministers appear like idiots. I can't help but feel that there is enough rope there for anti governmental action to take place to the detriment of
our democratic choices.

The whole civil service needs overhaul, but in exactly the opposite direction of the way Dom wants to take it.

Everyone since Wilson has complained about the civil service, they probably all had a point..yet they all made things even worse.

The alternative is the civil service of the 70's who's incompetence in part helped bring down both Heath and Wilson (I think it was Healy who famously in an interview explained about a snr civil servants' tears of rage following a disagreement he had with them). They wiekded extraordinary power back then, and abused it on a regular basis.

The point is that there's a happy medium somewhere, and FWIW on corruption indices, our civil service comes 1st in the world. That may be laughable but it's true.

Another job Labour ignored, now somebody is doing something about it, they won't be doing it right, well who knew.

[Borg Refinery]

That was my memory too, however the antics of Health England during the pandemic has proved the power they have in that they can act quite independently even without Ministerial knowledge. All it is achieving is in making Ministers appear like idiots. I can't help but feel that there is enough rope there for anti governmental action to take place to the detriment of
our democratic choices.

The whole civil service needs overhaul, but in exactly the opposite direction of the way Dom wants to take it.

Everyone since Wilson has complained about the civil service, they probably all had a point..yet they all made things even worse.

The alternative is the civil service of the 70's who's incompetence in part helped bring down both Heath and Wilson (I think it was Healy who famously in an interview explained about a snr civil servants' tears of rage following a disagreement he had with them). They wiekded extraordinary power back then, and abused it on a regular basis.

The point is that there's a happy medium somewhere, and FWIW on corruption indices, our civil service comes 1st in the world. That may be laughable but it's true.

[papasmurf]

All it is achieving is in making Ministers appear like idiots.

They are idiots.  Grant (Pinocchio) Shapps  telling everyone to get back to work when he is still working from home:-

https://twitter.com/i/status/1299273519445012480

[T00ts]

That was my memory too, however the antics of Health England during the pandemic has proved the power they have in that they can act quite independently even without Ministerial knowledge. All it is achieving is in making Ministers appear like idiots. I can't help but feel that there is enough rope there for anti governmental action to take place to the detriment of
our democratic choices.

[Borg Refinery]

I guess they always have but recent activities has made me wonder again. Public Health England and Highways England are the two that are currently in my headlights so to speak.

PHE set alarms going for me right at the beginning of Covid when the execs appeared in front of the Palimentary Health Select Committee, and were so obviously inept that I mentioned it here at the time, and subsequent actions or inaction seemed to prove my point. The report that it is being dismantled seems to be a smoke screen for a reshuffle almost literally with the same bums on different seats.  I fear both for the next wave of the virus and the long term public health. Over recent year mummying the populace has seemed more important than self appraisal.

The Highways body organised smart motorways. The outcry that these are causing deaths presumably by leaving vulnerable breakdowns with nowhere to escape seems to be a result of an evident absence of common sense created by bus users rather than motorway drivers with experience and an iota of intelligence.  I heard it said some months ago that recognition of the risks would mean progress would be halted. 7 (I believe) new ones have just been announced.
The boss man has just quit.
I read that these various quangos were created to remove direct rule from Ministers thus allowing a degree of escape from blame.  It might seem that death of the electorate takes a back seat to the safety of MPs.  Perhaps I have turned into a cynic.

Welcome back Toots, hope you're well and have kept well.

Quangoes aren't great but abolishing PHE then making a new one that does the same thing except it's called the National Revolutionary People's Liberation Quango of Heath or whatever it is, is just moving £10 from your left pocket to your right one, IMHO.

[papasmurf]

I read that these various quangos were created to remove direct rule from Ministers thus allowing a degree of escape from blame.  It might seem that death of the electorate takes a back seat to the safety of MPs.  Perhaps I have turned into a cynic.

I thought Cameron had got rid of quangos:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8135460.stm

[T00ts]

I guess they always have but recent activities has made me wonder again. Public Health England and Highways England are the two that are currently in my headlights so to speak.

PHE set alarms going for me right at the beginning of Covid when the execs appeared in front of the Palimentary Health Select Committee, and were so obviously inept that I mentioned it here at the time, and subsequent actions or inaction seemed to prove my point. The report that it is being dismantled seems to be a smoke screen for a reshuffle almost literally with the same bums on different seats.  I fear both for the next wave of the virus and the long term public health. Over recent year mummying the populace has seemed more important than self appraisal.

The Highways body organised smart motorways. The outcry that these are causing deaths presumably by leaving vulnerable breakdowns with nowhere to escape seems to be a result of an evident absence of common sense created by bus users rather than motorway drivers with experience and an iota of intelligence.  I heard it said some months ago that recognition of the risks would mean progress would be halted. 7 (I believe) new ones have just been announced.
The boss man has just quit.
I read that these various quangos were created to remove direct rule from Ministers thus allowing a degree of escape from blame.  It might seem that death of the electorate takes a back seat to the safety of MPs.  Perhaps I have turned into a cynic.