Have I lost the plot?

[Nick]

He wasnt just talking about the english channel , he specifically mentioned the entire uk waters.

The problem is that the various territorial waters don't line up with the quota blocks.

See here



So it's almost impossible to say if all the fish caught in (say) North Sea (IV) are caught on the Norwegian, German or UK side of the border.  What we can say is that for Haddock in that block the UK has 28kt out of a total.of 32kt quota.

In fact for haddock the UK has over half the entire UK haddock quota. The UK catches more haddock than all the other nations out together.

That's a different spin than "In UK waters, the UK can only catch 10% of the EU Haddock quota..."


For.cod, sure in the channel 91% of the cod caught is by non UK boats.  But the channel.represnts less than 10% of the EU cod caught.

1 in every 3 cod caught by an EU boat is caught by a UK boat. In the North sea (the EU's biggest for fishing area) the UK has over 20kt of the 33kt quota.

Figures, figures, figures !!  The fact is we have sovereign waters and will be taking them back. Whether we trade some of them as part of a deal is unknown but frankly immaterial, they're still our waters do what we like.

[BeElBeeBub]

He wasnt just talking about the english channel , he specifically mentioned the entire uk waters.

The problem is that the various territorial waters don't line up with the quota blocks.

See here



So it's almost impossible to say if all the fish caught in (say) North Sea (IV) are caught on the Norwegian, German or UK side of the border.  What we can say is that for Haddock in that block the UK has 28kt out of a total.of 32kt quota.

In fact for haddock the UK has over half the entire UK haddock quota. The UK catches more haddock than all the other nations out together.

That's a different spin than "In UK waters, the UK can only catch 10% of the EU Haddock quota..."


For.cod, sure in the channel 91% of the cod caught is by non UK boats.  But the channel.represnts less than 10% of the EU cod caught.

1 in every 3 cod caught by an EU boat is caught by a UK boat. In the North sea (the EU's biggest for fishing area) the UK has over 20kt of the 33kt quota.

[Thomas]

Which is not full PR.

quote me where i said it was.?

[papasmurf]

We use a mixed member proportional system.

Which is not full PR.

[Thomas]

If the tories became the government under PR , you would of course still complain.

Suggest reading, (and you really don't understand PR.)

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/latest-news-and-research/media-centre/press-releases/general-election-how-the-2019-election-results-could-have-looked-with-proportional-representation/

We use a mixed member proportional system.

Under that system , depsite it being designed not to allow a single party with a majority , the snp have had a majority government.

.....but wether for example england brought in such a system (or not) and the tories either went into coalition with another paryty , or like the snp won enough seats to form a government on its own , you would still moan.

I suggest you do some reading.

As ever , you arent interested in the different systems , only one which stops your pet hate  the tories becoming government.

[papasmurf]

If the tories became the government under PR , you would of course still complain.

Suggest reading, (and you really don't understand PR.)

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/latest-news-and-research/media-centre/press-releases/general-election-how-the-2019-election-results-could-have-looked-with-proportional-representation/

[Thomas]

It appears you don't understand PR.  Under PR every government would be a coalition.

We have a form of PR for the scot parliament , so i understand it and use it far better than you.

If the tories became the government under PR , you would of course still complain.

[papasmurf]

You would still complain if the tories won under PR.

It appears you don't understand PR.  Under PR every government would be a coalition.

[Thomas]

I dont think there has been a general election in the last century that either labour or conservative has had 60% share of the vote.

That is why full proportional representation is badly needed First Past The Post is why we have a government of incompetent doctrinal idiots.

I know full proportional representation would let in a few rabid extremists from both end of the spectrum, but that would frankly be price worth paying.

Whats that got to do with the subject at hand?

You would still complain if the tories won under PR.

[Thomas]

You guys are the ones saying that a GE victory is the end if the matter even if FPTP makes it a rather unrepresentative system.

Who has said that where?

Quote them please?

Once democracy is implemetend in 16 weeks , that is the end of the matter for now , then you can vote for a party standing on a rejoin mandate at the next election .

[Thomas]

Still doesn't get around the fact he was selectively quoting figures (by refering to the English channel which is around 5% of the total cod Quota) to give an impression contrary to the whole picture.

He wasnt just talking about the english channel , he specifically mentioned the entire uk waters.

You can happily call that overwhelming if you like

.

ok to be exact , 55.3 in scotland 2014 was called overwhelming , so im using that level playing field to call englands 53.4 in 2016 overwhelming. Its you status quoers descriptive language not mine .

You call digby jones emotive and insinuate he exxagerates , yet you engage in the same rhetoric yourself when it suits.

But you clearly still support Scottish independence and would (I assume) relish another vote on it and vote to leave (the UK)

Similarly I would relish another vote and vote to rejoin. (the EU).

Se my previous explantions on how democracy works. You can have as many votes as you like , but each time , you have to implement the result before trying to overturn it with another vote.

You dont want to do that as you , unlike me  , are anti democratic.

The referendum in no way mandated the type of brexit, only that the UK cease to be a member of the EU.

So what are you complaining about?

If we leave without a deal , then by your own admission this is acceptable by the loose definition of the referendum.

[papasmurf]

I dont think there has been a general election in the last century that either labour or conservative has had 60% share of the vote.

That is why full proportional representation is badly needed First Past The Post is why we have a government of incompetent doctrinal idiots.

I know full proportional representation would let in a few rabid extremists from both end of the spectrum, but that would frankly be price worth paying.

[Thomas]

So what would you base it on? Leave has to win by 2 to 1 majority?

At least 60% of the electorate would have been closer to normal for such important referendums.

So using your numbers we should never have had the 1975 referendum which Wilson won a majority in the 74 GE of just 0.7%.

I dont think there has been a general election in the last century that either labour or conservative has had 60% share of the vote.

Labour highest was 48.8 and tories 49.7.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7529/


and the result to take us into the eec as you say didnt match pappys criteria.

[BeElBeeBub]

Finally!! An admission that Remoaners think it should have been rigged in their favour. Unbelievable.

No admission at all, if you bother to check few referenda are based on a simple majority.
(By the way and yet again I only voted remain because I knew the Tories would make a bog of Brexit.)

So what would you base it on? Leave has to win by 2 to 1 majority?

I would rather the two vote system (as proposed by JRM).

A referendum to open the negotiations and a referendum on the final text as negotiated.

Instead we had the first, and then it was used an an excuse to never have the second.

[BeElBeeBub]

So what would you base it on? Leave has to win by 2 to 1 majority?

At least 60% of the electorate would have been closer to normal for such important referendums.

So using your numbers we should never have had the 1975 referendum which Wilson won a majority in the 74 GE of just 0.7%.

You guys are the ones saying that a GE victory is the end if the matter even if FPTP makes it a rather unrepresentative system.