Have I lost the plot?

[Borg Refinery]

You have nothing to say to my point about Ayelet Shaked do you?

I know little about the lady but the view "the only good X is a dead X" is abhorrent when applied to people.

Johnson is an arse, that needs no clarification.

As for M Hodge etc, the Israeli government (current and past) has done terrible things.  I condem those actions.

But again,  calling out an anti Jewish trope doesn't mean someone automatically support every single thing Israel has ever done.

Making every jewish person in some way responsible for the actions of a country they may not have even ever been to is part of the problem.

Happy?

"The point is that you only ever disparaged him and Labour, never once did you raise the same (bigger) issues in the Tories or LD's."

Now you're bashing people here as anti-semites for using 'anti semitic' tropes such as 'bankers'... wat?

Calling evil bankers evil is anti-semitic?

You are trying to shut down debate

[Borg Refinery]

What makes you think I'm a Lib Dem now?

Weren't you trumpeting Ms Gappy Teeth a few months back?

You linked to a LD candidate being suspended for anti Jewish remarks.

Selective reading...

But isn't that the problem with Corbyns labour?

There were numerous people with a history or anti Jewish opinions who weren't expelled, or whose disciplinary procedures were somehow slowed up or lost in the mail.

Once or twice might be bad luck but it did seem to be a little more often than that

The point is that you only ever disparaged him and Labour, never once did you raise the same (bigger) issues in the Tories or LD's.

I could post a thousand more LD anti-semitism stories but why bother? You won't even read them.

Ultimately, whilst I didn't disagree with everything Corbyn said, I don't think he was ever cut out for leadership.

I agree, he was a good local politician.

But still 1000x better than Swineson or Bojo.

[Sheepy]

I will  let you know. Nothing wrong with genuine debate, no need to step over the line. If your argument is weak there is no need to make it even weaker.

This is where we get into difficulty.

I don't think my argument is weak.

What part do disagree with?

That it is possible to call out an injustice without minimising other injustices?

That people shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of a country they may only be tangentially associated with?

That "banker conspiracy to rule the world" has often been used as a trope to whip.uo hatred against Jewish people?

Point out the flaw and I'll happily debate and change opinion if a compelling argument is put forward.

Simply declaring an argument weak isn't debate

Nobody mentioned the Jews that was all down to you, I have seen it thousands of times, I just made sure it came back on you for once.

[BeElBeeBub]

I will  let you know. Nothing wrong with genuine debate, no need to step over the line. If your argument is weak there is no need to make it even weaker.

This is where we get into difficulty.

I don't think my argument is weak.

What part do disagree with?

That it is possible to call out an injustice without minimising other injustices?

That people shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of a country they may only be tangentially associated with?

That "banker conspiracy to rule the world" has often been used as a trope to whip.uo hatred against Jewish people?

Point out the flaw and I'll happily debate and change opinion if a compelling argument is put forward.

Simply declaring an argument weak isn't debate

[Sheepy]

You have nothing to say to my point about Ayelet Shaked do you?

I know little about the lady but the view "the only good X is a dead X" is abhorrent when applied to people.

Johnson is an arse, that needs no clarification.

As for M Hodge etc, the Israeli government (current and past) has done terrible things.  I condem those actions.

But again,  calling out an anti Jewish trope doesn't mean someone automatically support every single thing Isreal has ever done.

Making every jewish person in some way responsible for the actions of a country they may not have even ever been to is part of the problem.



Happy?

I will  let you know. Nothing wrong with genuine debate, no need to step over the line. If your argument is weak there is no need to make it even weaker.

[BeElBeeBub]

You have nothing to say to my point about Ayelet Shaked do you?

I know little about the lady but the view "the only good X is a dead X" is abhorrent when applied to people.

Johnson is an arse, that needs no clarification.

As for M Hodge etc, the Israeli government (current and past) has done terrible things.  I condem those actions.

But again,  calling out an anti Jewish trope doesn't mean someone automatically support every single thing Israel has ever done.

Making every jewish person in some way responsible for the actions of a country they may not have even ever been to is part of the problem.



Happy?

[BeElBeeBub]

What makes you think I'm a Lib Dem now?

You linked to a LD candidate being suspended for anti Jewish remarks.


But isn't that the problem with Corbyns labour?

There were numerous people with a history or anti Jewish opinions who weren't expelled, or whose disciplinary procedures were somehow slowed up or lost in the mail.

Once or twice might be bad luck but it did seem to be a little more often than that

Ultimately, whilst I didn't disagree with everything Corbyn said, I don't think he was ever cut out for leadership.

[Borg Refinery]

Oh bollocks, really. He actually went to pains to save a Jewish cemetary in Islington which Margaret Hodge (then head of Islington council) wanted to get rid of.

Corbyn clearly had a blind spot when it came to anti-Semitism.

I don't believe he was a foaming at the mouth holocaust denier.

But i do think he didn't take it as seriously as he should have partly because his long term association with the Palestinian cause brought him into contact with the language and ideas on a regular basis.  After a while surrounded by such ideas it becomes harder to identify them easily.

So by your logic, supporting the Israeli state govt makes you anti-semitic (Palestinians are semitic people) because they said things like this:

That relies on a misreading of the term "anti-Semitic"

Whilst "semetic" can encompass the family of languages including Hebrew and Arabic, "anti-Semitic" has a very specific meaning of hatred against Jewish people.

Whilst there are plenty of Jewish Palestinians, the bulk.if the Palestinian movement is not Jewish.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/.premium-what-does-ayelet-shaked-really-think-about-arabs-1.5360885

Anyone who ever associated with her is an anti-semite then aren't they?

She called for genocide against Pallie kids didn't she?

So how is Hamas' genocidal rhetoric any different to theirs? You tell me.

And I don't like Hamas or Fatah, I wish they never existed, but naive and brainwashed sheep such as yourself who buy up the Murdoch propaganda are just as big a problem as any Tory...then again you were a Tory by your own admission.

I think.you might be falling into the same trap Corbyn fell into.

Hatred against Jews (say by insinuating they are a shadowy conspiracy trying to take over the world) needs to be called out.
.
By doing so doesn't in anyway minimise the grievances of other groups or justify the transgressions of past and present Israeli governments.

Responding with "what about X" is the same as shouting "all lives matter".

I've been called everything under the sun, so I don't care what rubbish allegations you level at me.

You have nothing to say to my point about Ayelet Shaked do you?

Have you ever criticised Hodge, Labour Friends of Israel for allying with genocidal nutcases like Shaked.... or even Bojo when he posted this?

The prime minister's 'Seventy Two Virgins' described a Jewish character as an unethical businessman with a large nose, who exploits immigrant workers and black women
...
Mr Johnson, who visited Grodzinski Bakery in Golders Green on Friday in a bid to woo voters in Finchley and Golders Green, also described a Jewish character called Sammy Katz, as having a "proud nose and curly hair."

He described the character as someone who "relied on immigrant labour" and visits the red light district in search for "a bit of black".

The prime minister also described the Jewish character as having the eyes of an "unblinking snake" and someone who sends his son "pathetic presents, every five years, of low-denomination bills".

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/labour-attacks-boris-johnson-for-novel-that-depicted-jews-as-fiddling-elections-1.494175

No?

Then you are just a media sheep, a hypocrite and a typical Tory Remainer now hiding out as a Lib Dem and I have no time for you at all.

You were happy to be a feckin Tory when it suited you, with people like Bojo happily sharing the spectator with viooent, virulent Nazi anti-semites like Taki Theo, with Bojo writing anti-semitic rubbish, with Tory MP's getting done for znti semitism, with Tory members according to a Channel 4 poll having more anti semitic views than Labour members.

Btw your LD's are anti-semitic too -

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/waheed-rafiq-lib-dem-candidate-suspended-from-party-over-clearly-antisemitic-remarks-a4292376.html

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/lib-dem-members-party-line-on-labour-anti-semitism-is-ill-judged-and-uncritical/

So kindly shove your accusations someplace.

[BeElBeeBub]

I'm not really interested in this topic. Sorry.

Ok, off you hop then.

[BeElBeeBub]

Oh bollocks, really. He actually went to pains to save a Jewish cemetary in Islington which Margaret Hodge (then head of Islington council) wanted to get rid of.

Corbyn clearly had a blind spot when it came to anti-Semitism.

I don't believe he was a foaming at the mouth holocaust denier.

But i do think he didn't take it as seriously as he should have partly because his long term association with the Palestinian cause brought him into contact with the language and ideas on a regular basis.  After a while surrounded by such ideas it becomes harder to identify them easily.

So by your logic, supporting the Israeli state govt makes you anti-semitic (Palestinians are semitic people) because they said things like this:

That relies on a misreading of the term "anti-Semitic"

Whilst "semetic" can encompass the family of languages including Hebrew and Arabic, "anti-Semitic" has a very specific meaning of hatred against Jewish people.

Whilst there are plenty of Jewish Palestinians, the bulk.if the Palestinian movement is not Jewish.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/.premium-what-does-ayelet-shaked-really-think-about-arabs-1.5360885

Anyone who ever associated with her is an anti-semite then aren't they?

She called for genocide against Pallie kids didn't she?

So how is Hamas' genocidal rhetoric any different to theirs? You tell me.

And I don't like Hamas or Fatah, I wish they never existed, but naive and brainwashed sheep such as yourself who buy up the Murdoch propaganda are just as big a problem as any Tory...then again you were a Tory by your own admission.

I think.you might be falling into the same trap Corbyn fell into.

Hatred against Jews (say by insinuating they are a shadowy conspiracy trying to take over the world) needs to be called out.
.
By doing so doesn't in anyway minimise the grievances of other groups or justify the transgressions of past and present Israeli governments.

Responding with "what about X" is the same as shouting "all lives matter". 

[Baff]

You aren't coming across that way at the moment

Side stepping again

How hard is it to answer the question?

Do you think there is a Jewish conspiracy  involving bakers and trans national organisations to rule the world?

I don't believe such a conspiracy does or ever has existed

I'm not really interested in this topic. Sorry.

[Borg Refinery]

Oh bollocks, really. He actually went to pains to save a Jewish cemetary in Islington which Margaret Hodge (then head of Islington council) wanted to get rid of.

Corbyn clearly had a blind spot when it came to anti-Semitism.

I don't believe he was a foaming at the mouth holocaust denier.

But i do think he didn't take it as seriously as he should have partly because his long term association with the Palestinian cause brought him into contact with the language and ideas on a regular basis.  After a while surrounded by such ideas it becomes harder to identify them easily.

So by your logic, supporting the Israeli state govt makes you anti-semitic (Palestinians are semitic people) because they said things like this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/.premium-what-does-ayelet-shaked-really-think-about-arabs-1.5360885

Anyone who ever associated with her is an anti-semite then aren't they?

She called for genocide against Pallie kids didn't she?

So how is Hamas' genocidal rhetoric any different to theirs? You tell me.

And I don't like Hamas or Fatah, I wish they never existed, but naive and brainwashed sheep such as yourself who buy up the Murdoch propaganda are just as big a problem as any Tory...then again you were a Tory by your own admission.

[BeElBeeBub]

You aren't coming across that way at the moment

Side stepping again

How hard is it to answer the question?

Do you think there is a Jewish conspiracy  involving bakers and trans national organisations to rule the world?

I don't believe such a conspiracy does or ever has existed

[Baff]

You don't like being on the same side as them?

Doesn't change that you are.

I don't like people who say "bankers", "minorities" and "globalists" and mean something else.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't realise that historically when people said then things you've just been saying they really mean "Jewish people".

Righto.
So you don't like Jewish people either.

You could always vote Labour I suppose.

I have no problem with people being Jewish.  I don't see what religion a person happens to follow or not follow as a particularly important part of their character.

I don't believe there is or ever was any kind of secret Jewish conspiracy to rule the world

However you used the word "either".

"You don't like X either" is an explicit admission the speaker doesn't like X.

Just to clear up any ambiguity.

Do you think there is a Jewish conspiracy  involving bakers and trans national organisations to rule the world?

You aren't coming across that way at the moment.

[Sheepy]

Don't lie beelbug you were caught red handed, by others as well.