Tory Infighting Thread #331,998

[Thomas]

I hope you are right but let's face it I wouldn't put my head above the parapet now. It must be hell on earth struggling with the current situation trying to drive a path through something that is like thick fog with no end as yet. I am sure they are trying to maintain a holding game until someone somewhere comes up with an answer. Russia seems to be holding out the most hope as yet unluckily. Apparently Sunak  is eyeing up his chances. There is always Gove of course among others but I am not convinced.

i wouldnt listen to patman toots.

Like every small c tory remainer , he has been dismayed since johnson took charge of the party  and won the general election by a landslide securing brexit.

This stuff about johnson at the minute seems to be the last gasp of the anglo remainers trying to topple him , and get another brexit transition in place before december.

Johnson seems to have a record of being attacked and ridiculed as a buffoon not up to the job , yet winning against the odds time and again.

I wouldnt count him out yet.

If england doesnt leave the eu in 17 weeks time , and the whispering remainers topple johnson , then without a doubt it shows there is no democracy in your country .

Once the ballot box fails the ordinary people , you are then in a bad place.

[Thomas]

And you think that doesn't apply equally to the Tories?

Clearly it doesnt dynamis , or the tories wouldnt be in power , having won the last 4 general elections . They saw the reality of brexit , saw that england was an out and out euroscpetic nation , and changed from being a remainer party to being a leaver party.

If thats not grasping reality i dont know what is.

But nonetheless, you're probably right, yet Starmer's polling rises by the day last I looked.

ok but this is meaningless. We are years away from any general election , weeks away from brexit , and starmer has labour on its lowest polling in scotland in history if im not mistaken.

The polls show if an election was held tomorrow , he would still lose. Thats a damnable statistic , if johnson and his party are as bad as you make out.

I guess the public just lap up Murdoch-backed incompetent buffoons and that's the sad, sad truth of it.

You are just insulting the intelligence of the average voter yet again dynamis.

Scotland doesnt  , yet labour are in third place in scotland behind the snp and tories , so im not sure your insult actually makes sense in the light of that fact .

Not sure why the Tories can't stick a half competent, if hateable leader in.

Johnson is obviously doing something right. Salmond got the same vitriol from the british left when in power , sturgeon does as well , and only slightly less because her remain stance was usefull to them.

If you are hated by the british left, it normally means you ae good at your job.

[Thomas]

A hard Brexit will make getting those basic needs very difficult, it is only the length of time that that last is the unknown.
Britain is still woefully unprepared.

So you keep telling us pappy.

As i point out time and again , the ten years or so i have been listening to your rubbish on various forums , the next armageddon under the dreadfull tories is always just around the corner you tell us.

Then you tell us you voted liberal to help the tories into power in your constituency.

[Thomas]

It would seem anything that doesn't fit your preconceived ideas , makes no sense to you.

We all have preconceived ideas , so why are you singling out mine as though they are unusual?

Im simply pointing out the contradictions in your post.

You tell us labour have mundane policy to focus on , nice easy issues like nationalisation , housing and health , labours normal happy stomping ground every election. ( thats before we even touch on labours piss poor reccord in these areas when in government)

Then you admit we live in extraordinary times , and as we have all seen , during extraordinary times , labour appear to be on the opposite side to the average voter and get punished accordingly.

So in short labour cant tell us anything about policy on these areas , (now is not the time we are told) , and their tactic for achieving victory is casting off meaningless soundbites about helping the poor , social housing , we built the nhs once upon a time , blah blah feckin blah , and hoping the public get fed up with the conservatives.

Wow.

You can see why your country is falling apart. Politically , you are engaged in nothing more than offering the public a race to the bottom. Telling people we are marginally less shit than the opposition in a binary choice.

The point I was actually making was that Starmer , may well not be Blair,II , in the longer term.

I know we discussed blair earlier. Blair was a feckin muppet , who was in the right place at the right time. If he were here , labour would still be in a similar position. I simply said blair was a far better politician than starner will ever be , not that he was any sort of messiah.

Blair is fairly unique in being hated by both laft and right. Johnson is hated namely by the left , and remainers acorss the board , which normally tells you he is doing something right.

Brexit is not going to change people's basic needs , COVID, on its own will play a much bigger roll than anything else in the near future, the economy is going to suffer big time , living standards taken for granted  when asking for Brexit will disappear

Sounds like nothing more than a grain of truth coupled with a large does of wishfull thinking.

We have already touched on labours piss poor record of meeting people basic needs. I have pointed out time and again how the snp have met scotlands basic needs in their 13 years in power far better than labour ever did in places like glasgow in the 80 years they were in power.

So before we touch on the big problem issues for labour , labour are already taking a beating .

All we hear is silence on covid , or pathetic carping about how poor johnson and sturgeon are at dealing with it , while john of gwent tells us the labour government in wales is doing a piss poor job of dealing with covid too.

Brexit wont go away for labour at the next election . The tories will be telling every voter in england that starmer and labour will take england back into the eu if they get elected.

....and obviously scottish independence has annihilated labour in their old fiefdom.

So labour can offer nothing more than empty tired old worn out soundbites while running away from the big issues , which will continue to haunt them badly.

world hasn't actually changed that much.

Bollocks.

The world is changing all the time , and will continue to do so forever more. Labours problem is they are stuck in the past , and cant come to terms with that change. As they struggle with change ,they become less and less relevant.

The only thing that keeps them relevant for the minute is the disgusting two party system that is destroying your countries politics. Eventually the english voters patience with labour tory tennis is going  to snap.

...but for the minute , as long as labour are the only alternative to the tories , the english will vote for the least bad option.

Policy aimed at basic social needs will come back to the top of the average voters priority lists.  And whoever holds the reigns will have to deliver, or move over.

You had 80 years in power in glasgow to deliver , and you couldnt do so. Not only that , you took glasgow from the second city of the empire in the 1930`s , to the most impoverished shithole with the lowest life expectancy by the 80`s , ruled over by a corrupt self serving labour elite who couldnt give a shit about the average scot never mind glaswegian.

By then , the rumblings had started , the snp gradually grew in power , until they swept you aside , and now scotland has never had is so good in terms of social policy.

In england , from memory margaret thatcher , hated by the english left , built more social housing than the heroes of the englsih left labour did when blair and brown were in charge.

When it comes to labours record in terms of social policy , you have been living off the back of the creation of the nhs since the late forties 72 years ago , whilst offering nothing more than empty soundbites in policy terms when in government during my lifetime.

The scots have seen through you , and the northern english and welsh to a lesser degree have as well.

You wont always be the only alternative to the tories in england , and when that day arrives , which could be much sooner than you think , your fall into obscurity wont come quick enough.

[papasmurf]

There is always Gove of course among others but I am not convinced.

Not since he had Cummings as an advisor.

[T00ts]

I guess we have to hope that somewhere in the Tory ranks there's someone with enough intellect, vision and charisma who will emerge over the next two or three years to take on the task of Tory Leader and lead the party into the next election.
If there is such a person, they're keeping their attributes well hidden...

I hope you are right but let's face it I wouldn't put my head above the parapet now. It must be hell on earth struggling with the current situation trying to drive a path through something that is like thick fog with no end as yet. I am sure they are trying to maintain a holding game until someone somewhere comes up with an answer. Russia seems to be holding out the most hope as yet unluckily. Apparently Sunak  is eyeing up his chances. There is always Gove of course among others but I am not convinced.

[patman post]

I guess we have to hope that somewhere in the Tory ranks there's someone with enough intellect, vision and charisma who will emerge over the next two or three years to take on the task of Tory Leader and lead the party into the next election.
If there is such a person, they're keeping their attributes well hidden...

[srb7677]

the Labour party has long since lost contact with reality and can be safely relied upon not to do anything intelligent for the foreseeable future.

A description that totally applies to Spaffwaffle and his Tories

[Borchester]

Starmer needs to win in places like scotland wales and northern england , not at prime ministers questions. .....

If you think ignoring the big issues and concentrating on things like health and housing where you can overpromise but underdeliver as ever is a vote winner , then more fool you.

True, but the Labour party has long since lost contact with reality and can be safely relied upon not to do anything intelligent for the foreseeable future.

And you think that doesn't apply equally to the Tories?

No, I don't

[Borg Refinery]

Starmer needs to win in places like scotland wales and northern england , not at prime ministers questions. .....

If you think ignoring the big issues and concentrating on things like health and housing where you can overpromise but underdeliver as ever is a vote winner , then more fool you.

True, but the Labour party has long since lost contact with reality and can be safely relied upon not to do anything intelligent for the foreseeable future.

And you think that doesn't apply equally to the Tories?

But nonetheless, you're probably right, yet Starmer's polling rises by the day last I looked.

I guess the public just lap up Murdoch-backed incompetent buffoons and that's the sad, sad truth of it.

Not sure why the Tories can't stick a half competent, if hateable leader in.

[papasmurf]

Brexit is not going to change people's basic needs ,

A hard Brexit will make getting those basic needs very difficult, it is only the length of time that that last is the unknown.
Britain is still woefully unprepared.

[Good old]

I'm not at all sure Starmer, or the party are going to do a simple Blair II There are areas , such as nationalisation, subsidised housing  and health to be focused on, the ways things are going these are Popular now, and  going to be more so in the near future. Times were about to change with Brexit, especially if it didn't fetch noticeable improvement. COVID has hammered change into the situation. Coalition may well be the near future,  either way if things are to be hard an electorate can change opinion drastically in just a year or two, so politically In a democracy situations are never Irreversible.

Your post doesnt make any sense to me.

You tell us labour are going to focus on mundane policy ( and ignore the difficult things) while admitting we live in extraordinary times.

Remember it was labour who did a lot of privatising the last time  the blairites were in power , didnt build any council houses of any note and exacerbated the housing problems  , and their performance both at westminster when in power pre 2010 , and in wales since 2010 , show they can't be trusted on health.

If you think ignoring the big issues and concentrating on things like health and housing where you can overpromise but underdeliver as ever is a vote winner , then more fool you.

I wont vote for you as i want scottish indy. Same as half the scottish popualtion no matter what you offer.

Brexiters wont forget starmers anti democratic performance , and will fear if they vote labour in future , pro european starmer will have england back in the eu .

As i said , you are delusional if you think its politics as usual going forward. Which is what labours big big problem is.

It would seem anything that doesn't fit your preconceived ideas , makes no sense to you.
Ignoring mundane policy ,as you call it , is not a long term tactic, but sound in the present circumstances. The point I was actually making was that Starmer , may well not be Blair,II , in the longer term.
Brexit is not going to change people's basic needs , COVID, on its own will play a much bigger roll than anything else in the near future, the economy is going to suffer big time , living standards taken for granted  when asking for Brexit will disappear. And when that happens we will find the world hasn't actually changed that much.
Policy aimed at basic social needs will come back to the top of the average voters priority lists.  And whoever holds the reigns will have to deliver, or move over.

[Borchester]

Starmer needs to win in places like scotland wales and northern england , not at prime ministers questions. .....

If you think ignoring the big issues and concentrating on things like health and housing where you can overpromise but underdeliver as ever is a vote winner , then more fool you.

True, but the Labour party has long since lost contact with reality and can be safely relied upon not to do anything intelligent for the foreseeable future. 

[Sheepy]

I'm not at all sure Starmer, or the party are going to do a simple Blair II There are areas , such as nationalisation, subsidised housing  and health to be focused on, the ways things are going these are Popular now, and  going to be more so in the near future. Times were about to change with Brexit, especially if it didn't fetch noticeable improvement. COVID has hammered change into the situation. Coalition may well be the near future,  either way if things are to be hard an electorate can change opinion drastically in just a year or two, so politically In a democracy situations are never Irreversible.

Your post doesnt make any sense to me.

You tell us labour are going to focus on mundane policy ( and ignore the difficult things) while admitting we live in extraordinary times.

Remember it was labour who did a lot of privatising the last time  the blairites were in power , didnt build any council houses of any note and exacerbated the housing problems  , and their performance both at westminster when in power pre 2010 , and in wales since 2010 , show they can't be trusted on health.

If you think ignoring the big issues and concentrating on things like health and housing where you can overpromise but underdeliver as ever is a vote winner , then more fool you.

I wont vote for you as i want scottish indy. Same as half the scottish popualtion no matter what you offer.

Brexiters wont forget starmers anti democratic performance , and will fear if they vote labour in future , pro european starmer will have england back in the eu .

As i said , you are delusional if you think its politics as usual going forward. Which is what labours big big problem is.

I guess they haven't worked out Parliament is on a doggies chance via the Conservatives, which obviously they think they can belittle them and pull them down from the job the electorate have given them, Labour can come in like a knight in shining armour, with look our policies are great, they have been saying the same crap for at least 3 generations, like oh yeah, that will do it we will vote Labour then.  What a bunch of numbskulls they are. The only record Parliament and the civil service hold, is doing a piss poor job of enacting any kind of democracy.

[Thomas]

I'm not at all sure Starmer, or the party are going to do a simple Blair II There are areas , such as nationalisation, subsidised housing  and health to be focused on, the ways things are going these are Popular now, and  going to be more so in the near future. Times were about to change with Brexit, especially if it didn't fetch noticeable improvement. COVID has hammered change into the situation. Coalition may well be the near future,  either way if things are to be hard an electorate can change opinion drastically in just a year or two, so politically In a democracy situations are never Irreversible.

Your post doesnt make any sense to me.

You tell us labour are going to focus on mundane policy ( and ignore the difficult things) while admitting we live in extraordinary times.

Remember it was labour who did a lot of privatising the last time  the blairites were in power , didnt build any council houses of any note and exacerbated the housing problems  , and their performance both at westminster when in power pre 2010 , and in wales since 2010 , show they cant be trusted on health.

If you think ignoring the big issues and concentrating on things like health and housing where you can overpromise but underdeliver as ever is a vote winner , then more fool you.

I wont vote for you as i want scottish indy. Same as half the scottish popualtion no matter what you offer.

Brexiters wont forget starmers anti democratic performance , and will fear if they vote labour in future , pro european starmer will have england back in the eu .

As i said , you are delusional if you think its politics as usual going forward. Which is what labours big big problem is.