Half competent, hateable leader - Dynamis

[Borg Refinery]

I hope Dynamis will forgive me for stealing his line. The full quote I was struck by was:-

'Not sure why the Tories can't stick a half competent, if hateable leader in' I started a reply and could see myself going a bit off piste so thought it was worthy of a new thread.

BJ was, in my view,  made leader of the Conservative party to do just one job. He was the only one to really commit to getting us out of the EU. I would be surprised if there are many who think he is the right leader for much else. The choice was pretty dire and the final two a no brainer. Hunt would never have coped he lacks dynamism and was possibly too concerned about his likeable image. BJ had the impression of being able to ride a bit more roughshod where necessary. Sadly Covid has apparently removed his edge. In fact I think with the current organisation in Whitehall, that has evolved over different parties in power, we have gradually inherited the worst possible scenario and much as I question Cummings (and I know his reported short comings - no pun intended) I hope that there is radical change in the way Whitehall is run, making it efficient and forward looking.

I have long bemoaned the lack of real talent in Westminster. We are apparently not breeding statesmen any longer - perhaps the strong left wing influence in education is taking its toll. I have not been able to find a half competent, likeable or hateable candidate on any of the green benches for some time. Is it their fault or the slow hide bound, fixed in tradition and hierarchy of the various ministries that is hogtying any real progress?

My vote is that perhaps it is. Tradition is great in many ways, but the world is moving fast. We have been in a supporting role for so long ruled by EU votes that we have forgotten what it is really like to drive selfishly. This might sound bad but anyone who has run a business knows that there are times when decisions are made for survival which seem selfish at the time, but survival is essential for those employed as much as for the owner. This is what is missing in UK plc. Sorry Thomas I include Scotland until you decide otherwise.

If we are to survive Covid19 and Brexit we need to up our game. We cannot do that without making changes at a really basic level. That starts in Whitehall and extends to the complacency on all sides of Westminster.

Feel free to expand on it or anything else.

I can agree with the gist of your post re a good leader... but obviously I feel whitehall needs impartiality, competency and dedicated civil servants. IMHO Cummings hired eugenicists and 'weirdoes' to fill the gap. One can come to their own conclusions bout that..

I think selflessness is what's needed here, what goes around comes around and a true leader who loves his country is in fact quite selfless, but I think you're saying that in a way - yiu're saying he should sacrifice popularity to get the job done. That is quite selfless.

I think they should stick Javid in - he showed some moral fortitude and selflessness - and is competent.

..Even if he is an evil Tory who looks like nosferatu. =-P He's the best of em' imho.

[T00ts]

If we are to survive Covid19 and Brexit we need to up our game. We cannot do that without making changes at a really basic level. That starts in Whitehall and extends to the complacency on all sides of Westminster.

The problem is, "socialist" policies are needed, if only for the period of time needed to get the country out of the black hole it will dive into from next January. The Tories are doctrinally opposed to what is necessary.

Ok I'll buy it. What 'socialist' policies do you suggest will help the country out of the black hole? The only socialist policies that strike me are the ones that equate to giving a man a fish but not teaching him how to catch one for tomorrow. In other words encouraging dependency on the State. Now this is good for buying votes but takes away self reliance and self motivation and self worth. There are too many who justifiably need our help but when we spread the pot so wide it leaves everyone short so that no-one thrives.

What do you see as the answer?

[papasmurf]

If we are to survive Covid19 and Brexit we need to up our game. We cannot do that without making changes at a really basic level. That starts in Whitehall and extends to the complacency on all sides of Westminster.

The problem is, "socialist" policies are needed, if only for the period of time needed to get the country out of the black hole it will dive into from next January. The Tories are doctrinally opposed to what is necessary.

[T00ts]

I hope Dynamis will forgive me for stealing his line. The full quote I was struck by was:-

'Not sure why the Tories can't stick a half competent, if hateable leader in' I started a reply and could see myself going a bit off piste so thought it was worthy of a new thread.

BJ was, in my view,  made leader of the Conservative party to do just one job. He was the only one to really commit to getting us out of the EU. I would be surprised if there are many who think he is the right leader for much else. The choice was pretty dire and the final two a no brainer. Hunt would never have coped he lacks dynamism and was possibly too concerned about his likeable image. BJ had the impression of being able to ride a bit more roughshod where necessary. Sadly Covid has apparently removed his edge. In fact I think with the current organisation in Whitehall, that has evolved over different parties in power, we have gradually inherited the worst possible scenario and much as I question Cummings (and I know his reported short comings - no pun intended) I hope that there is radical change in the way Whitehall is run, making it efficient and forward looking.

I have long bemoaned the lack of real talent in Westminster. We are apparently not breeding statesmen any longer - perhaps the strong left wing influence in education is taking its toll. I have not been able to find a half competent, likeable or hateable candidate on any of the green benches for some time. Is it their fault or the slow hide bound, fixed in tradition and hierarchy of the various ministries that is hogtying any real progress?

My vote is that perhaps it is. Tradition is great in many ways, but the world is moving fast. We have been in a supporting role for so long ruled by EU votes that we have forgotten what it is really like to drive selfishly. This might sound bad but anyone who has run a business knows that there are times when decisions are made for survival which seem selfish at the time, but survival is essential for those employed as much as for the owner. This is what is missing in UK plc. Sorry Thomas I include Scotland until you decide otherwise.

If we are to survive Covid19 and Brexit we need to up our game. We cannot do that without making changes at a really basic level. That starts in Whitehall and extends to the complacency on all sides of Westminster.