Half competent, hateable leader - Dynamis

[T00ts]

If we are to survive Covid19 and Brexit we need to up our game. We cannot do that without making changes at a really basic level. That starts in Whitehall and extends to the complacency on all sides of Westminster.

The problem is, "socialist" policies are needed, if only for the period of time needed to get the country out of the black hole it will dive into from next January. The Tories are doctrinally opposed to what is necessary.

Socialism doesn't work. I know you will never accept it but there are far too many people swinging the lead.
Helping out those who can't help them selves is all well and good but how do we sort the Wheat from the Chaff?

Absolutely and successive governments,  particular Brown's debacle both as Chancellor and PM, has continually widened the net for no other reason than to make as many as possible reliant on the State to the point of no longer being able or inclined to act or think for themselves. For the same reason the public sector magicked non jobs from thin air. Who are the losers? The genuine needy, disabled, infirm and elderly.

[Nick]

If we are to survive Covid19 and Brexit we need to up our game. We cannot do that without making changes at a really basic level. That starts in Whitehall and extends to the complacency on all sides of Westminster.

The problem is, "socialist" policies are needed, if only for the period of time needed to get the country out of the black hole it will dive into from next January. The Tories are doctrinally opposed to what is necessary.

Socialism doesn't work. I know you will never accept it but there are far too many people swinging the lead.
Helping out those who can't help them selves is all well and good but how do we sort the Wheat from the Chaff?

[Borg Refinery]

Ahhh, everything is wrong in this country, I wish we could just ignore politics - but it goes on and effects us regardless doesn't it? Maybe we effect it and it effects us by us simply observing it like in quantum theory and the answer is to disengage.. who knows, who knows.

[DeppityDawg]

But he did the right thing..

The right thing? Possibly. It didnt chime with current politically correct sensibilities though, did it? Otherwise the most blatant modern example of racism and exploitation in this country would have become a serious political issue, instead of being left to the Tommy Robinsons of this world to advertise. And you know why, and that was because their skin was the wrong fecking colour

[Borg Refinery]

I hope Dynamis will forgive me for stealing his line. The full quote I was struck by was:-

'Not sure why the Tories can't stick a half competent, if hateable leader in' I started a reply and could see myself going a bit off piste so thought it was worthy of a new thread.

BJ was, in my view,  made leader of the Conservative party to do just one job. He was the only one to really commit to getting us out of the EU. I would be surprised if there are many who think he is the right leader for much else. The choice was pretty dire and the final two a no brainer. Hunt would never have coped he lacks dynamism and was possibly too concerned about his likeable image. BJ had the impression of being able to ride a bit more roughshod where necessary. Sadly Covid has apparently removed his edge. In fact I think with the current organisation in Whitehall, that has evolved over different parties in power, we have gradually inherited the worst possible scenario and much as I question Cummings (and I know his reported short comings - no pun intended) I hope that there is radical change in the way Whitehall is run, making it efficient and forward looking.

I have long bemoaned the lack of real talent in Westminster. We are apparently not breeding statesmen any longer - perhaps the strong left wing influence in education is taking its toll. I have not been able to find a half competent, likeable or hateable candidate on any of the green benches for some time. Is it their fault or the slow hide bound, fixed in tradition and hierarchy of the various ministries that is hogtying any real progress?

My vote is that perhaps it is. Tradition is great in many ways, but the world is moving fast. We have been in a supporting role for so long ruled by EU votes that we have forgotten what it is really like to drive selfishly. This might sound bad but anyone who has run a business knows that there are times when decisions are made for survival which seem selfish at the time, but survival is essential for those employed as much as for the owner. This is what is missing in UK plc. Sorry Thomas I include Scotland until you decide otherwise.

If we are to survive Covid19 and Brexit we need to up our game. We cannot do that without making changes at a really basic level. That starts in Whitehall and extends to the complacency on all sides of Westminster.

Feel free to expand on it or anything else.

I can agree with the gist of your post re a good leader... but obviously I feel whitehall needs impartiality, competency and dedicated civil servants. IMHO Cummings hired eugenicists and 'weirdoes' to fill the gap. One can come to their own conclusions bout that..

I think selflessness is what's needed here, what goes around comes around and a true leader who loves his country is in fact quite selfless, but I think you're saying that in a way - yiu're saying he should sacrifice popularity to get the job done. That is quite selfless.

I think they should stick Javid in - he showed some moral fortitude and selflessness - and is competent.

..Even if he is an evil Tory who looks like nosferatu. =-P He's the best of em' imho.

Yes you are probably right in what you say here. Selfless personally but we need to be more hardcore nationally. Javid? No! He flies both sides. Again far too image conscious for these times. He would be pulled in both directions depending who had his ear. I agree BJ has also been like this - more of late - but then I think his thinking processes are impaired on several fronts. New fatherhood and screaming nights. A partner with issues about her future and of course Covid. A man under extreme pressure on too many fronts, but then no-one could have told the future.

Surely Javid sacrificed his position to push for the grooming report to be released and got canned?

Isn't that quite noble? I thought it was.

Did he really get a choice in the end? Don't you think he had his eye on greater things?

But he did the right thing..

[T00ts]

I hope Dynamis will forgive me for stealing his line. The full quote I was struck by was:-

'Not sure why the Tories can't stick a half competent, if hateable leader in' I started a reply and could see myself going a bit off piste so thought it was worthy of a new thread.

BJ was, in my view,  made leader of the Conservative party to do just one job. He was the only one to really commit to getting us out of the EU. I would be surprised if there are many who think he is the right leader for much else. The choice was pretty dire and the final two a no brainer. Hunt would never have coped he lacks dynamism and was possibly too concerned about his likeable image. BJ had the impression of being able to ride a bit more roughshod where necessary. Sadly Covid has apparently removed his edge. In fact I think with the current organisation in Whitehall, that has evolved over different parties in power, we have gradually inherited the worst possible scenario and much as I question Cummings (and I know his reported short comings - no pun intended) I hope that there is radical change in the way Whitehall is run, making it efficient and forward looking.

I have long bemoaned the lack of real talent in Westminster. We are apparently not breeding statesmen any longer - perhaps the strong left wing influence in education is taking its toll. I have not been able to find a half competent, likeable or hateable candidate on any of the green benches for some time. Is it their fault or the slow hide bound, fixed in tradition and hierarchy of the various ministries that is hogtying any real progress?

My vote is that perhaps it is. Tradition is great in many ways, but the world is moving fast. We have been in a supporting role for so long ruled by EU votes that we have forgotten what it is really like to drive selfishly. This might sound bad but anyone who has run a business knows that there are times when decisions are made for survival which seem selfish at the time, but survival is essential for those employed as much as for the owner. This is what is missing in UK plc. Sorry Thomas I include Scotland until you decide otherwise.

If we are to survive Covid19 and Brexit we need to up our game. We cannot do that without making changes at a really basic level. That starts in Whitehall and extends to the complacency on all sides of Westminster.

Feel free to expand on it or anything else.

I can agree with the gist of your post re a good leader... but obviously I feel whitehall needs impartiality, competency and dedicated civil servants. IMHO Cummings hired eugenicists and 'weirdoes' to fill the gap. One can come to their own conclusions bout that..

I think selflessness is what's needed here, what goes around comes around and a true leader who loves his country is in fact quite selfless, but I think you're saying that in a way - yiu're saying he should sacrifice popularity to get the job done. That is quite selfless.

I think they should stick Javid in - he showed some moral fortitude and selflessness - and is competent.

..Even if he is an evil Tory who looks like nosferatu. =-P He's the best of em' imho.

Yes you are probably right in what you say here. Selfless personally but we need to be more hardcore nationally. Javid? No! He flies both sides. Again far too image conscious for these times. He would be pulled in both directions depending who had his ear. I agree BJ has also been like this - more of late - but then I think his thinking processes are impaired on several fronts. New fatherhood and screaming nights. A partner with issues about her future and of course Covid. A man under extreme pressure on too many fronts, but then no-one could have told the future.

Surely Javid sacrificed his position to push for the grooming report to be released and got canned?

Isn't that quite noble? I thought it was.

Did he really get a choice in the end? Don't you think he had his eye on greater things?

[T00ts]

Yes you are probably right in what you say here. Selfless personally but we need to be more hardcore nationally. Javid? No! He flies both sides. Again far too image conscious for these times. He would be pulled in both directions depending who had his ear. I agree BJ has also been like this - more of late - but then I think his thinking processes are impaired on several fronts. New fatherhood and screaming nights. A partner with issues about her future and of course Covid. A man under extreme pressure on too many fronts, but then no-one could have told the future.

You're mistaken if you believe Boris Johnson's ability, reliability, trustworthiness and truthfulness have all diminished since his bout of Covid.
Max Hastings on his former Brussels correspondent:

There is room for debate about whether he is a scoundrel or mere rogue, but not much about his moral bankruptcy, rooted in a contempt for truth.
I have known Johnson since the 1980s, when I edited the Daily Telegraph and he was our flamboyant Brussels correspondent. I have argued for a decade that, while he is a brilliant entertainer who made a popular maître d' for London as its mayor, he is unfit for national office, because it seems he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification.
He would not recognise the truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

In the Guardian it may be, but it's all worth a read, and seems to chime with the opinions of many who've had dealings with Johnson...

I don't necessarily doubt this appraisal but when push came to shove his platform of 'get Brexit done' carried the day. I had hoped the magnitude of his position might have brought about a suitable change in line with his office but it seems that this was not to be, or at least not yet. Apart from that he had the wit, charisma and aura to carry him pretty well until Covid. Either he is somewhat overwhelmed with the magnitude of the of the current situation where, let's face it, Superman might be daunted, or as already mentioned his health has undermined him. Either way I see no-one else with broad enough shoulders to take on the job and whatever his motives 'get Brexit done' remains for me the reason he is there.

[Borg Refinery]

I hope Dynamis will forgive me for stealing his line. The full quote I was struck by was:-

'Not sure why the Tories can't stick a half competent, if hateable leader in' I started a reply and could see myself going a bit off piste so thought it was worthy of a new thread.

BJ was, in my view,  made leader of the Conservative party to do just one job. He was the only one to really commit to getting us out of the EU. I would be surprised if there are many who think he is the right leader for much else. The choice was pretty dire and the final two a no brainer. Hunt would never have coped he lacks dynamism and was possibly too concerned about his likeable image. BJ had the impression of being able to ride a bit more roughshod where necessary. Sadly Covid has apparently removed his edge. In fact I think with the current organisation in Whitehall, that has evolved over different parties in power, we have gradually inherited the worst possible scenario and much as I question Cummings (and I know his reported short comings - no pun intended) I hope that there is radical change in the way Whitehall is run, making it efficient and forward looking.

I have long bemoaned the lack of real talent in Westminster. We are apparently not breeding statesmen any longer - perhaps the strong left wing influence in education is taking its toll. I have not been able to find a half competent, likeable or hateable candidate on any of the green benches for some time. Is it their fault or the slow hide bound, fixed in tradition and hierarchy of the various ministries that is hogtying any real progress?

My vote is that perhaps it is. Tradition is great in many ways, but the world is moving fast. We have been in a supporting role for so long ruled by EU votes that we have forgotten what it is really like to drive selfishly. This might sound bad but anyone who has run a business knows that there are times when decisions are made for survival which seem selfish at the time, but survival is essential for those employed as much as for the owner. This is what is missing in UK plc. Sorry Thomas I include Scotland until you decide otherwise.

If we are to survive Covid19 and Brexit we need to up our game. We cannot do that without making changes at a really basic level. That starts in Whitehall and extends to the complacency on all sides of Westminster.

Feel free to expand on it or anything else.

I can agree with the gist of your post re a good leader... but obviously I feel whitehall needs impartiality, competency and dedicated civil servants. IMHO Cummings hired eugenicists and 'weirdoes' to fill the gap. One can come to their own conclusions bout that..

I think selflessness is what's needed here, what goes around comes around and a true leader who loves his country is in fact quite selfless, but I think you're saying that in a way - yiu're saying he should sacrifice popularity to get the job done. That is quite selfless.

I think they should stick Javid in - he showed some moral fortitude and selflessness - and is competent.

..Even if he is an evil Tory who looks like nosferatu. =-P He's the best of em' imho.

Yes you are probably right in what you say here. Selfless personally but we need to be more hardcore nationally. Javid? No! He flies both sides. Again far too image conscious for these times. He would be pulled in both directions depending who had his ear. I agree BJ has also been like this - more of late - but then I think his thinking processes are impaired on several fronts. New fatherhood and screaming nights. A partner with issues about her future and of course Covid. A man under extreme pressure on too many fronts, but then no-one could have told the future.

Surely Javid sacrificed his position to push for the grooming report to be released and got canned?

Isn't that quite noble? I thought it was.

[Sheepy]

Yes you are probably right in what you say here. Selfless personally but we need to be more hardcore nationally. Javid? No! He flies both sides. Again far too image conscious for these times. He would be pulled in both directions depending who had his ear. I agree BJ has also been like this - more of late - but then I think his thinking processes are impaired on several fronts. New fatherhood and screaming nights. A partner with issues about her future and of course Covid. A man under extreme pressure on too many fronts, but then no-one could have told the future.

You're mistaken if you believe Boris Johnson's ability, reliability, trustworthiness and truthfulness have all diminished since his bout of Covid.
Max Hastings on his former Brussels correspondent:

There is room for debate about whether he is a scoundrel or mere rogue, but not much about his moral bankruptcy, rooted in a contempt for truth.
I have known Johnson since the 1980s, when I edited the Daily Telegraph and he was our flamboyant Brussels correspondent. I have argued for a decade that, while he is a brilliant entertainer who made a popular maître d' for London as its mayor, he is unfit for national office, because it seems he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification.
He would not recognise the truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

In the Guardian it may be, but it's all worth a read, and seems to chime with the opinions of many who've had dealings with Johnson...

Well personally, Pat, I prefer they learn some respect the easy way, not like RT the hard way.

[patman post]

Yes you are probably right in what you say here. Selfless personally but we need to be more hardcore nationally. Javid? No! He flies both sides. Again far too image conscious for these times. He would be pulled in both directions depending who had his ear. I agree BJ has also been like this - more of late - but then I think his thinking processes are impaired on several fronts. New fatherhood and screaming nights. A partner with issues about her future and of course Covid. A man under extreme pressure on too many fronts, but then no-one could have told the future.

You're mistaken if you believe Boris Johnson's ability, reliability, trustworthiness and truthfulness have all diminished since his bout of Covid.
Max Hastings on his former Brussels correspondent:

There is room for debate about whether he is a scoundrel or mere rogue, but not much about his moral bankruptcy, rooted in a contempt for truth.
I have known Johnson since the 1980s, when I edited the Daily Telegraph and he was our flamboyant Brussels correspondent. I have argued for a decade that, while he is a brilliant entertainer who made a popular maître d' for London as its mayor, he is unfit for national office, because it seems he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification.
He would not recognise the truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it in an identity parade.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

In the Guardian it may be, but it's all worth a read, and seems to chime with the opinions of many who've had dealings with Johnson...

[Sheepy]

Over last few months, even the Daily Mail have had it in for the Tories. And with good reason. Virtually everything this government have had any contact with since January has gone tits up

It would be funny if it weren't so damaging to the whole country

Geordie Greig, who is a remainer and the editor of the Daily Mail and has never made any secret of his dislike of the current Tory government.

The government hasn't had much to do since January. We will be out of the EU by the New Year and that is what they were elected for. There was an outbreak of the flu earlier in the year and the media and a few folk ran around making a fuss over not very much and made the rest of us ashamed they were British, but other than that I reckon that the government has done pretty well.

Very true the DM changed its stance from the day he got the job, not that I actually careless about all the nonsense they all pump out anyway, they know full well if they don't convince the populists they are representing the majority they ain't getting voted in and we will just turn out the crew. Fact of life which Labour the Conservatives and anyone else hoping for a seat already know very well. Life is such a bitch.

[papasmurf]

I had to laugh at the DMs article. - "when it's easier to get into the UK on a dinghy than via Heathrow, you know somethings wrong"

Quite, and a Rigid Inflatable Boat, (RIB,) with a 50bhp outboard engine can cross from Finistere to The Lizard in around five hours and no-one would be any the wiser.

[DeppityDawg]

Over last few months, even the Daily Mail have had it in for the Tories. And with good reason. Virtually everything this government have had any contact with since January has gone tits up

It would be funny if it weren't so damaging to the whole country

I would agree. The trouble is that trying to remain flexible in constantly changing circumstances is making a fool of us. The latest fiasco of holiday makers expecting to have to rush home and some doing so, to find that they could have stayed is an example. Somewhere the Government is leaking like a sieve. It isn't helpful to anyone for ideas/possible plans to be leaked before decisions are made. It is leading to chaos. Again I suspect underhand workings in Whitehall.

It is undermining confidence to the point that no-one trusts anything that Ministers say. It makes Government an impossible task and I can't help but suspect an agenda.

I had to laugh at the DMs article. - "when it's easier to get into the UK on a dinghy than via Heathrow, you know somethings wrong"

[papasmurf]

That is probably why he isn't answering your letters.

He is not answering anyone's letters, emails, or phone calls. (I don't bother contacting him at all usually. Except when requested to do so by someone else.)

[Borchester]

perhaps your MP doesn't yet have the resources up to speed. I think we should all show a bit of patience.

I have no patience with the man.

That is probably why he isn't answering your letters. Regardless of his reply you will be on here moaning about the Tories. And what is this obsession of yours about demanding that the government solve your every problem? You are not a spring chicken anymore Pappy. Time to put your shoulders back and learn a little self reliance.

The best thing a government can do is sod all.