Barnier done!

[Baff]

Correct.
We will interpret the WA as we please and if the EU does not like it, it may withdraw from the WA.

This does indeed cut both ways.
Although I wouldn't expect the EU to be withdrawing from such a one sided agreement in a hurry, would you?


The UK did not accept the EU agreement.
It has never accepted any EU agreement.
That's been the problem all along.

Some oligarchs in the UK accepted it. But the UK never did. Never has and never will.


The history of the WA is that it was orchestrated and signed by remainers.
Those people who did not wish to leave the EU.

Johnson was unable to do much about it because he did not have the parilamentry numbers and after 3 + years of the government trying to screw over the electorate with it the country had lost patience completely.
Not to mention was being charged billions by the week to negotiate it and the EU was stalling this indefinetely. So that we couldnever leave and would always be paying.

That's the point when Boris took over.

Johnson under a great deal of duress managed to get it passed with the worst elements of it removed.
Now he is in a much stronger position he can go further. And we hope he will.


Trump doesn't make deals that shit in the first place.
He understands that for a deal to work both sides must be happy with it.



The EU should do whatever the EU thinks is in it's best interests.
If it wants a deal with the UK it will need to offer one that is acceptable to the UK.
If it prefers not to, it should not do so.
And indeed Cameron offered it that chance to avoid all this and make such a deal, but they preferred not to. So we have left.

[GerryT]

I don't want tariff free access to the UK.
We have a trade deficit. EU trade needs to be tariffed.
Or cooperate and offer reciprocal free trade in financial services.

That's your position then, if the EU doesn't like it then it can either take or leave that offer. See that's how sovereignty works, neither side is telling the other what to do. Both sides are saying what they offer and whats not on the table.

In this example the EU is trying to tell the UK that it must abide by EU rules in NI.
And threatening us with terrorism if we refuse.
But our bombs are bigger.

IF the UK accepts the EU offer then yes they will be expected to abide by the agreement. But the EU is not telling the UK anything or what it should do. It's totally the UK decision what it does or doesn't do. Doesn't mean you'll wet what you want though.

If the WA is so shit that the UK wants out of it after only 9 months, then cooperate and make a decent one that the UK dos not instantly want to leave.
Or f**k off.

If the WA was so shit why did the UK negotiate it (it took 3 yrs), agree it and sign it. Why did Johnson say it was a masterclass in negotiation and an oven ready deal.
The truth is the UK were acting in bad faith, Johnson had no intention of fulfilling their obligations, it was signed so Johnson could get a majority. The real betrayal was how Johnson used the UK people to get that majority. The EU was used by the UK and the EU remains calm, steady and measured with it's response. Even in the face of the UK bringing legislation that breaks the very recently signed WA, the EU continues in talks about a future trade deal.
Can't wait to see what trump does with the UK when Johnson tries this croc of shit on with them.

Your saying the EU should co-operate and just give the UK what it wants. That sounds very much like do what the UK says. Sorry but in the big boys world that's not how things work

[Baff]

I agree that is not the ideal framework for cooperation.
But then the EU isn't an ideal partner for co-operation.

They want to tie us down and pin us into doing things we have no wish to do.
And that is the root of the issue.

That's one way of looking at it, another is their saying yes you can have what you want--tariff free access to the EU, recognition of professional qualifications, access to services. And in return we want A, B, C D. If your not happy with that then lets talk, You get tariff free with quotas on certain goods, no services, professional qualification recognition and we get A, B C and on goes the negotiations. That is an ideal partner for co-operation, everything is on the table and the UK can take it or leave it.

They are trying to rule us.
And we simply won't allow this.

Totally wrong, how are they trying to rule the UK

Where there is agreement, we are willing to cooperate.
Where there is not, we are not.
All else is the path to war with us.

There we go again, the UK is getting ready for war 
But there was agreement and the UK are not willing to co-operate. WA agreed and now 9 months later the UK is looking to break international law and unilaterally ignore parts of the agreement, that's not co-operation.

I don't want tariff free access to the UK.
We have a trade deficit. EU trade needs to be tariffed.
Or cooperate and offer reciprocal free trade in financial services.

In this example the EU is trying to tell the UK that it must abide by EU rules in NI.
And threatening us with terrorism if we refuse.
But our bombs are bigger.

If the WA is so shit that the UK wants out of it after only 9 months, then cooperate and make a decent one that the UK dos not instantly want to leave.
Or f**k off.

[GerryT]

That reads like a lecture to me. In my world there is room for alternate views but this seems void of that. This professor constantly bangs his students head together until they agree.  Not only that but it also seems as if it's delivered with a splash of anger. Perhaps there is fear of being really on the fringes.  Don't worry, when we are sailing away successful while the EU wades through the mire no competition and no innovation, while funds are reserved to finance the Federation of struggling states, perhaps you will also leave. 

There are alternative views but your suggesting that when I voice my view it's a "lecture".
You can have alternative views, or opinions, but again a lot - not all of these are represented as fact and not backed up with any form of evidence.
NO anger on this side, apologies if that's how it comes across, might be my blunt style of writing. You opinion now about the EU sinking and the UK prospering, not fact, and not based on any study. Even when Stg has fallen nearly 30% and a number of studies has shown the cost of brexit to date is over £130 billion. Lets ignore that and just make up a happy clappy unicorn outcome.
The reason there is an EU budget is a number of things, pay for joint regulatory bodies thus saving each state a fortune, paying for the bodies (council/commission/parliament) that makes all this happen and investing money that generates growth and prosperity in the poorer regions of the EU, so there will be a future where all parts of the EU a prosper.  Maybe the UK should do this, and you wouldn't end up with very wealthy areas and some of the poorest regions in the EU.

[Good old]

Why do those in the EU feel entitled to lecture a leaving member on their politics, their freedom, their choices and their future position in the world and say at the same time that they don't care. It seems they protest too much. We have made a decision and we will carry it through and if that means those who have decided to stay find it difficult so be it. We will be free.

I haven't noticed them begging us to remain. We it seems can't find the door, without hoping we can at the least take some of the furniture. If it's all a waste of time we are all going to find it difficult. And we will not be free , we will be governed.  If the present group are to be taken seriously , not necessarily by the rule of the law that acts as the only support to any illusion of freedom.

[T00ts]

Why do those in the EU feel entitled to lecture a leaving member on their politics, their freedom, their choices and their future position in the world and say at the same time that they don't care. It seems they protest too much. We have made a decision and we will carry it through and if that means those who have decided to stay find it difficult so be it. We will be free.

It's not a lecture, it's called a discussion, that's what this forum is about. Maybe you want an echo chamber. Entitled doesn't come into it. You need to understand something, the UK has left, it's done, finished. There is no brexit anymore. The UK is now in the land of sunny unicorns, the world is you oyster. The discussions now are about the future, new trade deals all around the world and what relationship the UK and EU will have post brexit. Brexit as a concept can now be left to history, it's finished.

That reads like a lecture to me. In my world there is room for alternate views but this seems void of that. This professor constantly bangs his students head together until they agree.  Not only that but it also seems as if it's delivered with a splash of anger. Perhaps there is fear of being really on the fringes.  Don't worry, when we are sailing away successful while the EU wades through the mire no competition and no innovation, while funds are reserved to finance the Federation of struggling states, perhaps you will also leave. 

[GerryT]

Why do those in the EU feel entitled to lecture a leaving member on their politics, their freedom, their choices and their future position in the world and say at the same time that they don't care. It seems they protest too much. We have made a decision and we will carry it through and if that means those who have decided to stay find it difficult so be it. We will be free.

It's not a lecture, it's called a discussion, that's what this forum is about. Maybe you want an echo chamber. Entitled doesn't come into it. You need to understand something, the UK has left, it's done, finished. There is no brexit anymore. The UK is now in the land of sunny unicorns, the world is you oyster. The discussions now are about the future, new trade deals all around the world and what relationship the UK and EU will have post brexit. Brexit as a concept can now be left to history, it's finished.

[papasmurf]

There we go again, the UK is getting ready for war 

What with needs explaining.

[GerryT]

I agree that is not the ideal framework for cooperation.
But then the EU isn't an ideal partner for co-operation.

They want to tie us down and pin us into doing things we have no wish to do.
And that is the root of the issue.

That's one way of looking at it, another is their saying yes you can have what you want--tariff free access to the EU, recognition of professional qualifications, access to services. And in return we want A, B, C D. If your not happy with that then lets talk, You get tariff free with quotas on certain goods, no services, professional qualification recognition and we get A, B C and on goes the negotiations. That is an ideal partner for co-operation, everything is on the table and the UK can take it or leave it.

They are trying to rule us.
And we simply won't allow this.

Totally wrong, how are they trying to rule the UK

Where there is agreement, we are willing to cooperate.
Where there is not, we are not.
All else is the path to war with us.

There we go again, the UK is getting ready for war 
But there was agreement and the UK are not willing to co-operate. WA agreed and now 9 months later the UK is looking to break international law and unilaterally ignore parts of the agreement, that's not co-operation.

[T00ts]

Why do those in the EU feel entitled to lecture a leaving member on their politics, their freedom, their choices and their future position in the world and say at the same time that they don't care. It seems they protest too much. We have made a decision and we will carry it through and if that means those who have decided to stay find it difficult so be it. We will be free.

[Baff]

I agree that is not the ideal framework for cooperation.
But then the EU isn't an ideal partner for co-operation.

They want to tie us down and pin us into doing things we have no wish to do.
And that is the root of the issue.

They are trying to rule us.
And we simply won't allow this.

Where there is agreement, we are willing to cooperate.
Where there is not, we are not.
All else is the path to war with us.

[GerryT]

It would do, if he surrendered to you.
But he is showing himself to be unwilliing to.
And that is why you don't like it.

If you ask me I'll tell you what I don't like. Which is I don't like the fact that the UK is being led by a proven liar, he will say anything to anyone today to get what he wants. His future planning for the UK goes no further that what's happening today and what affects him personally. That might be what 17m UK people want but I very very much doubt it, that sort of behaviour would have little support anywhere.
He's not showing strength, he's showing he doesn't have the intellect to play with big boys. No country would deliberately break international law in a treaty that's less than 9 months old. He's a national embarrassment for the UK, and must now be the worst PM the UK has ever had.

Talk of blinking or surrender is not the sort of attitude that two parties should be taking into trade talks. Way too much military connotations coming from the UK side.

[Baff]

It would do, if he surrendered to you.
But he is showing himself to be unwilliing to.
And that is why you don't like it.

[GerryT]

Aaaw.
It's such a shame.

Poor old remoaners.
Made a surrender treaty but their nation hasn't surrendered.
Never mind.

Isn't this Johnson's oven ready treaty ?
Does that make him a surrender monkey

[Sheepy]

Aaaw.
It's such a shame.

Poor old remoaners.
Made a surrender treaty but their nation hasn't surrendered.
Never mind.

I guess they just cannot get their heads around, we couldn't careless if somebody bombed Brussels to rubble.