FT: Bojo to override WA

[Borg Refinery]

And where did I suggest any he 'sat back wistfully lamenting how unfair the world was'.

What you're implying - but you're too cowed to bother saying it outright - is that you think I'm a limp wristed Labour coward who's never been through anything in his life, but you're using sideways inferences to make your point.

I find that exactly as insulting as it is - you know absolutely nothing about me or my life.

I'll just leave it there because it's a nice day and I can't be arsed, but FYI I know all about Connolly's entire life, and I don't give a damn about historical revisionism in Labour seeing as I learnt about Connolly when I was an 'ultra leftist' communist to quote Lenin, ie one who rejects all parliamebtary politics. I'm not a 'left com' anymore but every assumption is wrong in your post.

actually i didnt mean it like that dynamis.

Im simply stating your constant complaining about unfair referendums and politics/life in general comes across as childish in the extreme , as well as being completely at odds with reality.

Wait.. so...what.... we should just accept corruption as a fact of life?

And you think men like Connolly did ..when they did everything they could, incl going to America and mixing with the 'wobblies' to fight back?

Connolly wasnt fair , nor did he sit wistfully at the side carping about how unfair things were when they went against him .

And you can presumably quote where I suggested he did?

Are you denying he was a lofty idealist, nay, a hardline commie at one point who wanted something very different to what you or even I want?

politics like life is a dirty business .

Another patronizing implicatory point.

You have no idea about my life, how can you judge?

I couldnt give a damn either where you learned about connolly , wether it was revisionist bullshit in the labopur party or elsehwere among the brit left.

Presumably you can quote some of the revisionist history I've quoted about him?

He was a nationalist , and a soldier who fought and died for what he believed in.

Agreed.. so what are we arguing about?

The Socialists will not understand why I am here; they forget I am an Irishman

[/quote]

I'm not a socialist, I don't want a socialist society. I've explained the type of society I wanted to live in and you thought I was taking the rise.. but it was the truth.

[GerryT]

Yes, the EU is within it's authority to pass regulations that provide trade barriers to other countries.
As are we.

In the normal run of events no they cant. A country can impose a tariff as a barrier, but this tariff must be the same then for all countries, not just one. WHat Trump is doing is a reaction to Airbus receiving state aid which the USA believes is unfair.

The problem with this however is due to the Irish Protocol we fear that they will attempt to pass regulatory trade barriers that result in UK agricultural produce being banned in the UK (NI). (NI has regulatory alignment proposed with the EU for agriculture due to it's cross border farms).
To pre-empt any legal dispute later, we have clarified our agreed position in the WA that NI is part of the UK single market and not the EU.
That our own laws supercede theirs.


And all the usual squealers are now predictably squealing, much to everyone's delight.

There's all ready border checks between GB and NI for animal products, to ensure any GB animals crossing into Ireland meet our standards, that's been going on for decades.

No what the UK agreed to was to not do anything that introduced a border on the island of Ireland, this now bill will cause a border on the island. That's why so many people are saying the UK will be breaching international law. That's why the EU has give the UK until the end of the month "or else" and that's why the UK shouldn't elect a liar and proven idiot with a bell end sense of humour that he used to embarrass the UK nation around the world as foreign secretary. You get what you voted for.

[GerryT]

My thats a strange attitude for a so called irishman to take regarding catalonia s right to self determination.

Catalonia merely did what ireland did  a century ago , yet here you are defending spains aggression , human right abuses and clear breach of eu law and the un charter on self determination.

So if the uk were to come back into ireland  , using spains tactics to re absorb you into  the uk as you illegally seceded from the uk without uk permission that would be ok then?

I clearly asked what international law SPain broke, you can't as there wasn't one broke.
You will also find the EU is supporting IRL in what the UK is currently trying to do in NI because there is an international agreement and law that the UK would be breaking.
Just like if Scotland tomorrow just announced it was once again a republic and looked for self determination, If the UK sent in the army they would be right to do so and the UK wouldn't be breaking any international laws. The EU and UN and nobody would do anything to help Scotland or at the time catalonia.

If you want indelendence have a vote or do what Ireland did, frustrate your opressors for not a couple of months but in our case 800 years, to the point the UK sat down with the irish and signed a legal document for ROI independence. IRL wasn't helped through that process. How far do you go back, the European's found America and grew a great nation. Should all that be give back to the indigenous Indian people, the same in Australia. You could argue that as they were the indigenous peoples. In Catalonia, were they the indigenous people for centuries as a country that Spain invaded, no they weren't.

[Thomas]

And where did I suggest any he 'sat back wistfully lamenting how unfair the world was'.

What you're implying - but you're too cowed to bother saying it outright - is that you think I'm a limp wristed Labour coward who's never been through anything in his life, but you're using sideways inferences to make your point.

I find that exactly as insulting as it is - you know absolutely nothing about me or my life.

I'll just leave it there because it's a nice day and I can't be arsed, but FYI I know all about Connolly's entire life, and I don't give a damn about historical revisionism in Labour seeing as I learnt about Connolly when I was an 'ultra leftist' communist to quote Lenin, ie one who rejects all parliamebtary politics. I'm not a 'left com' anymore but every assumption is wrong in your post.

actually i didnt mean it like that dynamis.

Im simply stating your constant complaining about unfair referendums and politics/life in general comes across as childish in the extreme , as well as being completely at odds with reality.

Connolly wasnt fair , nor did he sit wistfully at the side carping about how unfair things were when they went against him .

politics like life is a dirty business .

I couldnt give a damn either where you learned about connolly , wether it was revisionist bullshit in the labopur party or elsehwere among the brit left.

He was a nationalist , and a soldier who fought and died for what he believed in.

The Socialists will not understand why I am here; they forget I am an Irishman

[Borg Refinery]

You are a fan, like me, of Connolly aren't you?

Do you not think he was a romanticist - a dreamer, an idealist who dreamed of a better way both for the Scots and the Irish? Don't you think that's the ONLY way in an insane world?

You can't be a realist in an unrealistic world - you can't do things sanely in an insane world. I'm 100% certain you agree on those last points at least, c'mon.. you know it's the truth.   

Nope.

Thats modern era left wing drivel, from the labour party and many others who have tried to claim connolly and live off the back of his exploits.

Connolly was a visionary and a realist. He knew fine well the harsh brutality of life , and the "lack of purity" of human nature.

You are the one who says you believe politics has to be "fair". Connolly knew politics wasnt fair  , and was prepared to work with in that unfairness to get what he wanted.

You talk about cheating and wrongdoing , connolly was both of those things. He deserted from the british army , and killed british soldiers .

The guy had a hard brutal upbringing , served for years in the army  , and did what would be classed to day unspeakable crimes.

The fantasy picture idolising him that left wing groups tend to paint today is exactly that.Fantasy.

He was a nationalist , as well as a socialist , who famously said the only foreign enemy ireland has is the british government.

His death  , when he was brought in on a stretcher  , strpped to a chair and executed was said to be the turning point of the irish rebellion , where irish public mood swung behind the rebels.

Mustnt forget , as someone once told me ,while the brit labour party idolise him today , they were among the first to cheer his execution in the commons  when they heard the news.

So no , i dont agree with you. James connolly didnt sit back wistfully lamenting how unfair the world was. He went out and tried to do something about it , and accepted the reality of the world around him.

You dont appear to dynamis.

And where did I suggest any he 'sat back wistfully lamenting how unfair the world was'.

What you're implying - but you're too cowed to bother saying it outright - is that you think I'm a limp wristed Labour coward who's never been through anything in his life, but you're using sideways inferences to make your point.

I find that exactly as insulting as it is - you know absolutely nothing about me or my life.

I'll just leave it there because it's a nice day and I can't be arsed, but FYI I know all about Connolly's entire life, and I don't give a damn about historical revisionism in Labour seeing as I learnt about Connolly when I was an 'ultra leftist' communist to quote Lenin, ie one who rejects all parliamebtary politics. I'm not a 'left com' anymore but every assumption is wrong in your post.

[Baff]

Yes, the EU is within it's authority to pass regulations that provide trade barriers to other countries.
As are we.

The problem with this however is due to the Irish Protocol we fear that they will attempt to pass regulatory trade barriers that result in UK agricultural produce being banned in the UK (NI). (NI has regulatory alignment proposed with the EU for agriculture due to it's cross border farms).
To pre-empt any legal dispute later, we have clarified our agreed position in the WA that NI is part of the UK single market and not the EU.
That our own laws supercede theirs.

And all the usual squealers are now predictably squealing, much to everyone's delight.

[Thomas]

No they didn't. WHat makes you think SPain broke a law on self determination. Show how that's true. Did you read it in the Sun.

My thats a strange attitude for a so called irishman to take regarding catalonia s right to self determination.

Catalonia merely did what ireland did  a century ago , yet here you are defending spains aggression , human right abuses and clear breach of eu law and the un charter on self determination.

So if the uk were to come back into ireland  , using spains tactics to re absorb you into  the uk as you illegally seceded from the uk without uk permission that would be ok then?

[GerryT]

Opps. I tried to link a newspaper article.

Brb.

Ok, if your referring to the latest discussion on the EU being accused of not granting the UK 3rd country status.
If so my understanding is this is the mechanism that countries recognise each others standards, so if there is a BS standard on packed chicken, if the EU accepts this as equivalent then anything made to this BS standard can be sold in the EU.
So the argument is bogus because the UK has been asked to furnish details on these standards so that the Eu can review and make the equivalences and allow the UK 3rd country status. The UK as usual is making a dogs dinner of things and hasn't furnished the information, to the EU's frustration. The EU is saying if you don't get your act together and get us the info then you run the risk of it not being in place by January, and in a no deal situation you need this or you can't sell goods into the EU.
Not sure if thats what your referring to.

[Baff]

Oops. I tried to link a newspaper article. That previous link was to the WA.
Someone told me the WA said NI remains in the EU single market. So I had previously linked it for them to show me where.

Brb.


Here we go.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brussels-threatens-to-ban-food-imports-in-no-deal-brexit-w5p59nzhq

Essentially they intend to abuse this to prevent UK selling food in NI.
We won't stand for that.

So we have clarified this in the new bill. Enshrining the single market in the UK as agreed in the WA.

Should this mean the EU now wishes to annul the WA, no bother from our side.
Pleased do with our blessing. You won't be banning sale of UK products in the UK either way.


What a bunch of self obsessed dumbarses. Always trying to push people around.
f**king assholes looking to start another war.

[GerryT]

Brussels threatens to ban food imports in no-deal Brexit

You don't show where the EU is threatening to ban foods ?
You linked a treaty document.

[GerryT]

Spain broke international law on the right of self determination , spain broke european law on human rights , they unjustly dissolved the cataln parliament against the will of the catalan people , imprisoned democratically elected catalan leaders while brutally beating hundreds if not thousands of ordinary peacefull catalans for protesting.

No they didn't. WHat makes you think SPain broke a law on self determination. Show how that's true. Did you read it in the Sun.

[Baff]

The threats to ban UK goods from being sold in NI however, is not an act of good faith at all and that in itself is a breach of WA agreement.
The breach of the WA agreement that has precipitated this new bill.
The EU has "broken international law" and the UK is responding accordingly.

I'm out and about, on my phone. The eu is not threatening the uk with a ban on goods in ni and nor has anyone said the eu is breaking international law. There are however many saying the uk is on course to do so. Including many uk mps and 2 former uk pms
The WA states goods going uk-ni-uk are without checks. Goods going uk-roi-uk are subject to check. Finally goods going ni-roi-ni are without checks.
Two issues with this, a good going ni to roi must comply with eu rules/standards and that means ni continues to follow eu rules, otherwise it can't work. Second issue any good going uk-ni, could then get to roi without checks and that leads to smuggling  so the wa  covered this by saying goods need to be listed that might fall into this category. Example goods going to a manufacture in Belfast won't need checks as those parts won't be sold individually. However say clothes going uk-ni could very easily find themselves in ROI and then freely move anywhere in the eu. These goods are checked.
This requires a border, its not a full blown border but border light. This is what the uk agreed to.
The joint committee are working on classifying goods and movements at the moment, in parallel with the trade deal talks.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/840655/Agreement_on_the_withdrawal_of_the_United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland_from_the_European_Union_and_the_European_Atomic_Energy_Community.pdf

Brussels threatens to ban food imports in no-deal Brexit

[Thomas]

What international law ?  Most commentators at the time were saying catalonia was most certainly breaking spanish law and most likely breaking international law. I'm interested to know what international law spain broke

Are you taking the piss?

Spain broke international law on the right of self determination , spain broke european law on human rights , they unjustly dissolved the cataln parliament against the will of the catalan people , imprisoned democratically elected catalan leaders while brutally beating hundreds if not thousands of ordinary peacefull catalans for protesting.

All this happened within the borders of a so called free europe while many of the eu nations turned a blind eye to the behaviour of th spanish regime.

To get around the un law on self determiantion , the excuse was the spainsh constitution doesnt allow the break up of spain. No shit  !

Self-determination of peoples is a fundamental principle of contemporary international law, by virtue of which all peoples have the right to decide independently of their own political, economic and social order

[GerryT]

It wasn't my contribution, it was the EU's. Don't try and put it back on me. If we are finger pointing lets get stuck in, there are plenty of other skeletons in the EU cupboard.

Exactly sheep. Where were the eu when spain was breaking international law on catalonia?

What international law ?  Most commentators at the time were saying catalonia was most certainly breaking spanish law and most likely breaking international law. I'm interested to know what international law spain broke

[Thomas]

The threats to ban UK goods from being sold in NI however, is not an act of good faith at all and that in itself is a breach of WA agreement.
The breach of the WA agreement that has precipitated this new bill.
The EU has "broken international law" and the UK is responding accordingly.

I'm out and about, on my phone. The eu is not threatening the uk with a ban on goods in ni and nor has anyone said the eu is breaking international law. There are however many saying the uk is on course to do so. Including many uk mps and 2 former uk pms
The WA states goods going uk-ni-uk are without checks. Goods going uk-roi-uk are subject to check. Finally goods going ni-roi-ni are without checks.
Two issues with this, a good going ni to roi must comply with eu rules/standards and that means ni continues to follow eu rules, otherwise it can't work. Second issue any good going uk-ni, could then get to roi without checks and that leads to smuggling  so the wa  covered this by saying goods need to be listed that might fall into this category. Example goods going to a manufacture in Belfast won't need checks as those parts won't be sold individually. However say clothes going uk-ni could very easily find themselves in ROI and then freely move anywhere in the eu. These goods are checked.
This requires a border, its not a full blown border but border light. This is what the uk agreed to.
The joint committee are working on classifying goods and movements at the moment, in parallel with the trade deal talks.

Interesting to see how it all plays out gerry bhoy.

I see ian og is shouting the odds , and the dup reconfirming their utter opposition to the WA.

Use NI as a pawn'

Mr Paisley told BBC 5Live he was "furious" but "not surprised".

"Throughout the negotiations we warned that there was an ulterior motive, that the European community was going to punish the UK," he said.

"The best way they found of punishing the UK was to attack the political, social and economic integrity of our nation and the best and easier way they found was to use Northern Ireland as a pawn.

"Northern Ireland will not be used as a pawn - we opposed the withdrawal agreement, we warned about this protocol, we said it would damage the integrity.

"I am glad, maybe at the last minute, the PM has wakened up to the serious threat that this poses to the union," he said.

"If the prime minister has the mettle to finish the job I welcome that but we will find out this Wednesday if he has a tinfoil spine and if he is not prepared to stand up to Europe, as the people of NI do not deserve to be treated differently to people in the rest of the UK," he added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54130714