FT: Bojo to override WA

[Baff]

IRL=EU=IRL.
In real life the EU equals in real life.

Ireland is a island off Great Britain.
The EU is a diplomatic institution governing a trade agreement between 27 nations.

Ireland and the EU are not the same thing.


The GFA.
The UK is a signatory of the GFA and has made no attempt to break it or any suggestion that it would.
We will keep our Irish border open.

S Ireland has made the same commitment.

The EU has told S Ireland that it will potentially have to close it's border "to maintain the integrity of the EU single market".

[papasmurf]

You want to start pointing fingers and blaming someone, then blame the idiot Johnson. STop blaming the EU for all the fuckups in the UK.

Precisely.

[GerryT]

It's pretty simple.
In a treaty arrangement, both sides agree to impliment matching national laws.
When one side changes one of those laws, the treaty may be considered ended by the other party if they are no longer in agreement with it.

Jesus you really haven't a clue

[GerryT]

he WA was written to create a smooth transition between the UK's EU membership and it's end of that membership.

The GFA is not a particular concern of the EU.
They are cynically attmepting it to leverage the UK into accepting terms not in it's interest to do so.

Explicitly on this issue, that the UK single market should be broken up in order to preserve the EU single market and to publicly punish Britain for leaving by annexing one of it's territories.

Wrong, the GFA is a massive massive issue for the EU. Remember IRL=EU=IRL. As far as the EU is concerned the UK is threatening EU citizens with peace, EU citizens could die. No way they will condone that and will on principal not sign any deal that does.
It's why the WA was primarily concerned with NI.

You really have it backward. The UK has an international treaty, the GFA, this said there would be no further barriers to people on the Island, who could all take EU and Irish citizenship.

It is the UK break international law, in the GFA and the WA if it continues this way.

Your PM signed the WA which put a border in the Irish Sea from 2021, I've been saying that for months on here. You want to start pointing fingers and blaming someone, then blame the idiot Johnson. STop blaming the EU for all the fuckups in the UK.

[Baff]

Indeed I posted that link yesterday , you must have missed it .  We have Gina Miller to thank for confirming that it is for Parliament and Parliament alone  to enact or repeal legislation  (Miller v  secretary of state  exiting the EU  2017)

I was going to reply but Good Old did a nice job explaining the issue.
Maybe Gina Miller cn explain how the UK thinks it can ignore international law.

It's pretty simple.
In a treaty arrangement, both sides agree to impliment matching national laws.
When one side changes one of those laws, the treaty may be considered ended by the other party if they are no longer in agreement with it.
Should the EU now wish to annul it's WA treaty due to Boris' clarification of the UK position over it, no one here is going to cry.

[T00ts]

then the EU response will be escalated.

Oh it's better than the telly! Keep them coming- my sides ache! I always knew Ireland was desperate - Varadkar's face revealed all, but this is real Oscar winning stuff.

[Baff]

No it doesn't. It merely gives us options which may or may not be used. It stops us having our hands tied by the EU.

Your hands are tied by nobody, as a free sovereign state you signed the WA. All the EU wants is you to keep your word

And as a free sovereign state we will interpret that WA the way we like, and not necessarily the way you like.
Should our intrepretation of that agreement fall short of your expectations and requirements for continued agreement, you are free to end it.
As indeed are we.

The EU is not interested in us keeping our word. They are interested in screwing us any way they can.
One of those ways they proposed to screw us is addressed and countered in Boris's new bill.

[Baff]

The WA was written to create a smooth transition between the UK's EU membership and it's end of that membership.

The GFA is not a particular concern of the EU.
They are cynically attempting it to leverage the UK into accepting terms not in it's interest to do so by threatening us with terrorist action if we do not agree to their punative terms.

Explicitly on this issue, that the UK single market should be broken up in order to preserve the EU single market and to publicly punish us for leaving by annexing one of our territories.

[GerryT]

I know, I've not suggested otherwise.

I know you havent , all im saying this northern irish and fishing issue is laughable in terms of how highly the average uk individual rates them as serious political issues.

On the other hand if the tories were to  renege on brexit , they know it would be their downfall. Even a hint of doing a deal that ties england to the eu would have farage causing havoc.

On top of that  , the snp have been making political capital out of the fact northern ireland is getting to remain in the eu , while scotland , who voted even more to remain , is not , with predictable anger among the popualtion.

I think northern ireland will be getting dragged out with the rest of us , and i have said this to gerry and conor ( our resident irish posters) for a couple of years now. N.I is just causing too much political damage for the tories to be allowed to remain , as well as the fact the GFA is unpopualr among the tories and folk like Gove in particular.

Thomas, this needs to be constantly explained to you. The UK has left, that's England, Wales, Scotland and NI. There out, no going back.

If you think the NI "issue" is not a serious political issue your sadly mistaken. The WA was written to protect the GFA and the rights of the people of NI. IF the UK doesn't remove this recent legislation it has now been confirmed by the EU Parliament that there will be no trade deal, the the UK does act on the new legislation and say don't put in the sea border, that they said they would, then the EU response will be escalated.
To think the NI issue is a low priority shows the serious lack of understanding the UK has of the EU.
Tp get the EU parliament to make that statement would require the majority of all EU countries to agree with the current EU negotiating stance.

Meanwhile Sterling plummets.

[GerryT]

No it doesn't. It merely gives us options which may or may not be used. It stops us having our hands tied by the EU.

Your hands are tied by nobody, as a free sovereign state you signed the WA. All the EU wants is you to keep your word

[GerryT]

Indeed I posted that link yesterday , you must have missed it .  We have Gina Miller to thank for confirming that it is for Parliament and Parliament alone  to enact or repeal legislation  (Miller v  secretary of state  exiting the EU  2017) 

I was going to reply but Good Old did a nice job explaining the issue.
Maybe Gina Miller cn explain how the UK thinks it can ignore international law.

[Thomas]

We just happen to be talking in terms of the world as it is now.

As am i.

You seriously hink the world as it is now thinks the uk has integrity?

Im laughing that hard here good old i can barely breathe.

A large part of the world ( over 110 countires) have just voted against the uk over its lack of integrity regarding the chagos islands as an example of how the world thinks of you just now.

You are regarded as a rogue state past and present that lacks , and always has lacked an ounce of integrity.

[Baff]

What morality of the past?
People who dislike us claim we break international law all day every day.

/yawn.

[Good old]

Good old link=topic=1738.msg37127#msg37127 date=1599918548]
Not just around the globe , but here at home , even to his own party. Don't care is all right if you really don't.  But our integrity is already in question , funny or otherwise. And it really doesn't have to be.

Your integrity , or should i say lack of it , has always been in question throughout history.

The french have reams of old sayings about england not being trusted , and that there isnt a treaty in existence england hasnt broken in history.

From america , to china , they laugh at the word integrity being used in the same sentence as "britain/England"

History books are full of dirty deeds england/britain has done to countries around the globe. Thats how you built an empire and maintaind it , by fighting dirty.

So stop talking bollocks good old , and save the integrity spiel for the numbnuts that beleive everything the bbc tell them.

We just happen to be talking in terms of the world as it is now. If we should break international law and it is felt that will be the case by even our own government lawyers. Then we go beyond any morality of the past , where there was no International law with regard treaties of this type.  So as usual  the bollocks is yours .

[Thomas]

Not at all. I think referendums are useful, but IMHO just as the Scot indyref was a big cheat and stitch-up as you said yourself, so was AV and Brexit.

Every referrendum and political vote is the same. Are you suggesting if there is another scottish indyref it wont be the same?

Seriously?

Your problem is you want politics to be pure ,and that is never going to happen dyno.

Im not annoyed we got stitched up in 2014 , im just annoyed the brit s were better at it. Im a great believer in getting in the sty to wrestle with a pig and getting dirty.

I'm just saying they have to be fair - on all sides

No they dont. Thats bollocks frankly. You sound like some immature kid here dyno . Theres nothing fair about life never mind politics.

You need to open your eyes and live in the real world.

The In camp shouldn't have been allowed to cheat nor should the Leavers, but they both did. It makes it a huge farce.

i dont. political process in these islands have been a huge farce thoughout history. I dont remember anyone compalinging when tony blair won a large majority in parliament on less than 25% of the electorate , but let the public vote brexit , and all the imperfections that no one seemed to bother about before get brought up.

Thats too bad in my opinion.

When the next scot indy ref comes up , i couldnt give a feck how dirty it gets , as long as we win.