FT: Bojo to override WA

[T00ts]

Are we saying we are not able to squabble with the best of them? A stiff upper lip is fine in certain circumstances but in the big wide world we have to be prepared to stamp our feet and have a tantrum before we will be listened to.

[Baff]

International trade relations are miserable squabbling.
Narure of the beast.

Always have been, always will be.

[Good old]

Boris Johnson has urged Conservative MPs to back his plan to override part of the Brexit withdrawal agreement.

In a Zoom call with around 250 of them, he said the party must not return to "miserable squabbling" over Europe.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-54112973

Get behind me and we'll ride into oblivion together!

There will be no deal, if  he convinces the party to back him ,so  they would be putting the integrity of the entire country on the line for no purpose . If he seriously wants a deal, yet believes the deal on offer is not in good faith , then don't accept it. No agreement reached. National integrity intact. The GFA, will remain in serious danger of being infringed , no matter what the actual reasons are for no deal. He has returned this whole business to miserable squabbling. What other label can you put on this attempt to blatantly interfere with what was in his own words an oven ready agreement.

[Borg Refinery]

Boris Johnson has urged Conservative MPs to back his plan to override part of the Brexit withdrawal agreement.

In a Zoom call with around 250 of them, he said the party must not return to "miserable squabbling" over Europe.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-54112973

Get behind me and we'll ride into oblivion together!

[Borg Refinery]

The issue I have been hearing about, but have not incestiogated further, is that the EU had made some kind of threat to ban UK agricultural produce ebing sold in NI.

This typo is especially worrying as IIRC you said you work on a farm.

[Sheepy]

The issue I have been hearing about, but have not incestiogated further, is that the EU had made some kind of threat to ban UK agricultural produce ebing sold in NI.

I assume this to mean some bloke in the EU somewhere threatened it and that the press has spun this to mean the EU is threatening it.
Nonetheless the government has recognised the possibility and pre-emptively acted to clarify their position and hence prevent this from occuring.


And the rest is polticing.
Standing up to the EU is a crowd pleaser at a time when Covid restrictions are not.
Making the EU realise we will withdraw from the WA if we don't get a decent trade agreement is leverage at this stage of those negotiations.

Well all a storm in a teacup really, if the public find out that the Westminster party have tried to pull a fast one in league with the EU, they are not going to be happy, one little bit, on the other hand if the Tories back off now and say, wait a minute this is isn't right, they get the upper hand and a nod from the public. The EU can scream and threaten  international law all they like.

[Good old]

No international law has been broken.
The Bill simply acts to prevent the EU acting in bad faith.

Those who desire the EU to act in bad faith towards the UK, are all squealing loudly.

Well no end of our own government lawyers , the top men in fact, at least one minister, to say nothing of  ex PMs and various Tory members all  accept that international law will be broken if not already. So we only have your opinion on that issue.
If it was a simple case of the EU acting in bad faith, we could stand back, and expose it as such, we don't have to change anything, in the original agreement, in particular if it requires our own integrity to come into serious question, over what at best is a whisper of bad faith shown by the EU .
If the EU are acting in bad faith why doesn't Boris , shame them. Good old British face on face.  If the EU can not be trusted step back. All Boris, is showing here is neither can we be trusted.

[Baff]

The issue I have been hearing about, but have not incestiogated further, is that the EU had made some kind of threat to ban UK agricultural produce ebing sold in NI.

I assume this to mean some bloke in the EU somewhere threatened it and that the press has spun this to mean the EU is threatening it.
Nonetheless the government has recognised the possibility and pre-emptively acted to clarify their position and hence prevent this from occuring.


And the rest is polticing.
Standing up to the EU is a crowd pleaser at a time when Covid restrictions are not.
Making the EU realise we will withdraw from the WA if we don't get a decent trade agreement is leverage at this stage of those negotiations.

[Barry]

No international law has been broken.
The Bill simply acts to prevent the EU acting in bad faith.

Those who desire the EU to act in bad faith towards the UK, are all squealing loudly.

The  argument for breaking the WA is along these lines:

Ultimately, by refusing to negotiate properly to deliver a sovereign future relationship agreement, the EU has not only breached a material provision of the [withdrawal agreement] but also failed to deliver on the condition upon which the UK entered into the [withdrawal agreement]. As such, the [withdrawal agreement] has been entered into by the UK on a false premise, making UK consent defective. The UK has a right to walk away.

I would support any action to ensure that we are not in any way legally bound to the EU having any say over us whatsoever. After all, the whole EU business was originally sold to us as a "trade deal", the common market nearly 50 years ago.
We won't get fooled again.

[Baff]

No international law has been broken.
The Bill simply acts to prevent the EU acting in bad faith.

Those who desire the EU to act in bad faith towards the UK, are all squealing loudly.

[Good old]

That is the very essence of oligarchy too.
What makes it democracy is the supremacy of the electorate over all of those.

And no one who advocates for the EU ever gave a shit about that part.

That may be true in essence, but Johnson had a mandate to seal an oven ready deal. His own words.  Not break international law to scramble to no deal of any worthwhile sort.
One of the obvious weaknesses of any democracy is it has to trust the honesty of those that seek power. Johnson at the very least is abusing the trust of those taken in by his oven ready deal. And at worst showing a willing to break international  law in the name of an essentially law abiding society .

[Baff]

That is the very essence of oligarchy too.
What makes it democracy is the supremacy of the electorate over all of those.

And no one who advocates for the EU ever gave a shit about that part.

[Good old]

They seek to break a treaty

No it doesn't. It merely gives us options which may or may not be used. It stops us having our hands tied by the EU.

If you alter the original treaty signed in good faith by both sides, the treaty is broken.  Boris, has found a treaty given his own support, not to be convenient in the light of day. Just as some of the law he has challenged in recent times  was inconvenient to his long term aims. All that really happened here is , the light of day has shown his ideas of oven ready  were nothing more than the waffle he is so famed for .
So once more he resorts to looking for cracks in the mixture of law and precedent in our non existent constitution that acts as a basis for his devious machinations .

[Nick]

They seek to break a treaty

No it doesn't. It merely gives us options which may or may not be used. It stops us having our hands tied by the EU.

[Good old]

So you have misrepresented. Fake news, I'm afraid.

Ok, found this. A UK-Gov statement on its legal position. Basically the UK don't have any issue in writing local laws that breach international treaties and international law. Taken from the statement:

Parliament is sovereign as a matter of domestic law and can pass legislation which is in breach of the UK's Treaty obligations. Parliament would not be acting unconstitutionally in enacting such legislation.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/916702/UKIM_Legal_Statement.pdf

There you have it folks, the UK is saying to the world that any international treaty it signs, it can just bring in a local law to over rule part or parts of a treaty unilaterally and that's everyone else's tough luck.

I'm going to get some popcorn, can't wait to https://pol-tics.com/Smileys/akyhne/grin.gifsee with time how this one pans out. Like I'm sure countries are now going to form a line waiting to sign FTA's with the UK knowing the UK thinks it can just do what they want when they want. Good luck with that one.

It goes on to say other countries can also do this as part of their legal structure, such as new Zealand. This is where it starts to get bat shit crazy. First question, has any other country (not a banana republic done this and secondly while New Zealand's legal structure might allow this as a respected and honourable country they would never ever do it. Like the UK is.

Sorry baff, not fake news

Indeed I posted that link yesterday , you must have missed it .  We have Gina Miller to thank for confirming that it is for Parliament and Parliament alone  to enact or repeal legislation  (Miller v  secretary of state  exiting the EU  2017)

The fact that parliamentary sovereignty stretches that far does not alter the fact such action would or could break an international law, or an article of good faith .
In this case if Johnson, gets his own way , parliament in its present Tory dominated form merely becomes complicit in that fact. These are the tactics of a rogue, and the reaction both sides of the Atlantic, show clearly how low this threat is thought to be.  They seek to break a treaty, there has been no mandate from the people for that to happen, it's all of his own making.