FT: Bojo to override WA

[Thomas]

You were granted an independence referendum....and the democratic result was to stay...

ok we were told to stay in the uk to stay in the eu as you know.

Thats wasnt what i was explaining to you though. We were talking about sovereignty and scots constitutional law.

even arch-Europhiles like yourself have to accept therefore that it was 'democratic'

FFS stevlin you should have been on here the other day when our momentum member steve srb told me i was a scottish tartan tory and brexiter. Seems im all things to all men.Feckin quality.

.after all, many 'regions' in England also voted to remain

we arent a region of england.

...but now we mustnt start you off on geography now must we?

[Borg Refinery]

So what.. because the Remainers were corrupt and fecked about nonstop that makes it OK for this Brexi govt to do the same?

Is this what things have descended into..

How do you mean so what, the whole thing was based on utter lies and propaganda. If Westminster knew which they did, guess who else knew?

I mean it as in "...so.. what, this is how things are?" not as in "so what.. I don't care".

Of course the whole thing has been lies and propaganda. But at least be straight and admit that every side has engaged in it - yes including the EU at times too - as you'd expect from politicians.

The answer to me is to accept that Brexit was always a distraction from day to day running of the country, if you want to force things through with no oversight then that's what you do. And before you start attacking me, Tory remainers are equally as guilty of that and several Labour & LD people with big shares in pharma and other large corporate interests...

I have said all along the Westminster party are one and the same, don't try and make out I have lied about it, like I have also said the Tories asked for a doggies chance and were given one.

Why yes they were chasing sheep left right and centre. Like I said, I knew the ref would cause this level of division but KMPG & IFS predictions say a 'deal would've been around 1% better in terms of GDP than the "uncertainty" projectory.

A deal was possible virtually a few months after the ref, but the Tories played their usuzl game of selecting a new keader and distracting the country with that bollocks.

And it worked..and we got the soggiest remainer ever...May, who's the worst negotiator imaginable. That's where things went doubly wrong.

I take it then that is an admittance I did tell the truth, well thanks anyway, I am not kidding you now either, this is not some kind of ploy. leave means leave.

Telling what truth?

Where did I accuse you of lying? You've lost me mate. How would I know what you've been saying for years when I'm a relative newbie here?

Methinks you have reverted to French monsieur Mouton. 😜

[Thomas]

Sounds like a wild party in Thomas's neck of the woods.

now now stevey , your pal pappy already grassed me up and i was told to stop telling folk about your little drug secret , so i have stopped.

Why dont we take it to pm ?

[Borg Refinery]

The answer to me is to accept that Brexit was always a distraction from day to day running of the country,

sorry dynamis , but i can't agree with that.

What has happened as was predicted is that remainers , through their own anti democractic fault over four years , have turned brexit from a side issue for most except a few hardcore brexiters , to the main issue of uk politics where everyone can see democracy has not been upheld.

It s a travesty , and has made the uk look little better than some despotic banan republic with all this wiggling by remainers to get out of taking their medicine.

I keep saying , the mistakes from remainers part were all made before the referendum. There was no point bleating about losing after , it merely made you look like bad losers.

Further , were i once saw people of rational mind prepared to listen to and argue merits of brexit and deals , now , you have totally entrenched public opinion against you , and handed hard brexiters every piece of ammo they need.

Its time to quieten down , push on and accept whats coming.

Only after democracy has been implemetned will you have a small glimmer of hope of reversing the result if you disagree with it that much.

Clearly we can't go on like this across the four nations.

Anti democratic remainers are in my opinion a feckin disgrace.

England voted for Bojo so to me that is the worst deal imaginable.

Let me put it this way, if we in England had any type of Brexit under Corbyn (just assuming) I would prefer it to staying in the EU under Bojo.

That perfectly summarizes my position, the overall running of England is my concern - and who's in power.

[Thomas]

but the Tories played their usuzl game of selecting a new keader and distracting the country with that bollocks.

And it worked..and we got the soggiest remainer ever...May, who's the worst negotiator imaginable. That's where things went doubly wrong.

oh come oan mate. Labour had their chance according to many pundits to vote for mays withdrawal agreement , which would probably have split the tories , took may out of power , put corbyn in  , and left them the wardens to how brexit proceeded.

Johnsons election as tory leader and pm is labours fault. Had labour had someone a bit more politically astute at the helm , we might be in a different place.

Instead we had corbyn  , a complete wet blanket of a politician , totally clueless , well known brexiter , all over the place worshipped by the hard left nutjobs in the party , and johnson made them look foolish , along with starmer and all the remainers in and out of parliament.

[BeElBeeBub]

Democratically therefore,  it is important for that result to be implemented forthwith, despite rule by democracy being anathema to you Europhiles.

You're in luck. As per the 2016 referendum result, the UK left the EU earlier this year.

Now, as per the democracy that you love do much, a good chunk of the citizens of the UK are going to campaign to rejoin at some future date.

So don't worry, you'll get to live out your days in the sunlit uplands of brexit and when all the boomers have popped their clogs we'll clear up this mess along with all the other ones that generation made.

[Sheepy]

So what.. because the Remainers were corrupt and fecked about nonstop that makes it OK for this Brexi govt to do the same?

Is this what things have descended into..

How do you mean so what, the whole thing was based on utter lies and propaganda. If Westminster knew which they did, guess who else knew?

I mean it as in "...so.. what, this is how things are?" not as in "so what.. I don't care".

Of course the whole thing has been lies and propaganda. But at least be straight and admit that every side has engaged in it - yes including the EU at times too - as you'd expect from politicians.

The answer to me is to accept that Brexit was always a distraction from day to day running of the country, if you want to force things through with no oversight then that's what you do. And before you start attacking me, Tory remainers are equally as guilty of that and several Labour & LD people with big shares in pharma and other large corporate interests...

I have said all along the Westminster party are one and the same, don't try and make out I have lied about it, like I have also said the Tories asked for a doggies chance and were given one.

Why yes they were chasing sheep left right and centre. Like I said, I knew the ref would cause this level of division but KMPG & IFS predictions say a 'deal would've been around 1% better in terms of GDP than the "uncertainty" projectory.

A deal was possible virtually a few months after the ref, but the Tories played their usuzl game of selecting a new keader and distracting the country with that bollocks.

And it worked..and we got the soggiest remainer ever...May, who's the worst negotiator imaginable. That's where things went doubly wrong.

I take it then that is an admittance I did tell the truth, well thanks anyway, I am not kidding you now either, this is not some kind of ploy. leave means leave.

[Stevlin]

..but the UK Parliament is sovereign on non-devolved issues..

Thats a misunderstanding of scots constitutional law stevlin.

Its not that the uk parliament is sovereign over scots "non devolved issues" , its more the fact our scottish sovereign voice is represented at westminster through originally the scottishgrand committee , and then latterly the scottish office.

No it isn't Thomas.....we have discussed  this issue before - and will no doubt continue to disagree. You Scots have your own Parliament for 'Scottish' issues , soley relevant to Scotland .... which is more than what we Anglos get. The UK Parliament is required for UK issues.
The UK
(Constitutionally it can be argued that as Westminster is a parliamentary democracy where the Royal Sovereignty is held within that parliament – anything the parliament at Westminster decides in the monarch's name with respect to Scotland, but which the people of Scotland oppose, could in fact cause the monarch to be removed from her Scottish cr
Obviously the UK Parliament is paramount....as it has to be for the Britain......and indeed, as it WOULD have to be for a Federated EU ... but whereas the UK was formed by the uniting of Kingdoms, the EU is sneakily practising as a formal Federation WITHOUT being one.

This major constitutional hurdle for Westminster has always been in place. The original mechanism designed to circumvent it was the Scottish Grand Committee – which notionally represented the Scottish people's sovereign voice at Westminster – and in turn the Scottish Office, whose statutory role is to ensure that no UK Law or Statute conflicts with or affects the core rights of the sovereign Scottish people

You were granted an independence referendum....and the democratic result was to stay....even arch-Europhiles like yourself have to accept therefore that it was 'democratic'  - and just because it went against your wishes is not a sensible  reason for expecting  repeat referendums until you get what you want! If the UK referendum had been against my wishes, I would certainly be unhappy over it - but I would accept that 'democracy' had been 'in action'  ...after all, many 'regions' in England also voted to remain...  but democracy enacts the most popular decision! 

[srb7677]

they were chasing sheep left right and centre.

Sounds like a wild party in Thomas's neck of the woods.

[Borg Refinery]

So what.. because the Remainers were corrupt and fecked about nonstop that makes it OK for this Brexi govt to do the same?

Is this what things have descended into..

How do you mean so what, the whole thing was based on utter lies and propaganda. If Westminster knew which they did, guess who else knew?

I mean it as in "...so.. what, this is how things are?" not as in "so what.. I don't care".

Of course the whole thing has been lies and propaganda. But at least be straight and admit that every side has engaged in it - yes including the EU at times too - as you'd expect from politicians.

The answer to me is to accept that Brexit was always a distraction from day to day running of the country, if you want to force things through with no oversight then that's what you do. And before you start attacking me, Tory remainers are equally as guilty of that and several Labour & LD people with big shares in pharma and other large corporate interests...

I have said all along the Westminster party are one and the same, don't try and make out I have lied about it, like I have also said the Tories asked for a doggies chance and were given one.

Why yes they were chasing sheep left right and centre. Like I said, I knew the ref would cause this level of division but KMPG & IFS predictions say a 'deal would've been around 1% better in terms of GDP than the "uncertainty" projectory.

A deal was possible virtually a few months after the ref, but the Tories played their usuzl game of selecting a new keader and distracting the country with that bollocks.

And it worked..and we got the soggiest remainer ever...May, who's the worst negotiator imaginable. That's where things went doubly wrong.

[Thomas]

The answer to me is to accept that Brexit was always a distraction from day to day running of the country,

sorry dynamis , but i can't agree with that.

What has happened as was predicted is that remainers , through their own anti democractic fault over four years , have turned brexit from a side issue for most except a few hardcore brexiters , to the main issue of uk politics where everyone can see democracy has not been upheld.

It s a travesty , and has made the uk look little better than some despotic banan republic with all this wiggling by remainers to get out of taking their medicine.

I keep saying , the mistakes from remainers part were all made before the referendum. There was no point bleating about losing after , it merely made you look like bad losers.

Further , where i once saw people of rational mind prepared to listen to and argue merits of brexit and deals , now , you have totally entrenched public opinion against you , and handed hard brexiters every piece of ammo they need.

Its time to quieten down , push on and accept whats coming.

Only after democracy has been implemetned will you have a small glimmer of hope of reversing the result if you disagree with it that much.

Clearly we can't go on like this across the four nations.

Anti democratic remainers are in my opinion a feckin disgrace.

[Thomas]

It merely meant parliament could not by pass rights already inshrined in Scots law. Quiet different from parliaments rights being bypassed by the executive. As Parliament can not over rule the established law or courts in England, on most issues either, it has no baring on the conduct between executive and parliament.

Eh?

This sounds like complete waffle.

I contradicted your original statement using lord coopers judegment as an example that parliaments sovereignty is an english not scottish principle.

Another example of this pish about sovereignty you seem to think can be used as a tool to ride roughshod over brexiters because you dont like referndum results  is the example of AXA in 1998.

The "sovereign" parliament of the uk  had passed laws on asbestosis plaques , and the "devolved " scottish parliament has passed an opposing bill on the same subject contradicting the "soveriegn" parliament , which then went to the uk supreme court.

So you are saying the uk sovereign parliament could pass rights not already enshrined in scots law right?

So what happened then?

Everyone such as yourself screaming "parliament is sovereign" at westminster had a shock when the supreme court ruled in favour of holyrood .



Hidden away in their judgement was the statement that it had no power to set aside any bill, statute or act of the Parliament of Scotland where that bill expressed the clear will of the (sovereign) people of Scotland.

so you are talking nonsense.

[papasmurf]

What the hell is it with you? The nations of Great Britain united as ONE country...

When did that happen?

[Stevlin]

You've just cited and example of the sovereign UK parliament making an agreement with another to share sovereignty in certain defined areas.

So why were you so against the sovereign UK parliament making an agreement to share sovereignty with other parliament's in certain areas?

What the hell is it with you? The nations of Great Britain united as ONE country...on the Island of Britain - all the people  being British....the EU is NOT a Federation- yet.....and the UK citizens were taken into the EU , ( Common Market as it was then), with a LIE made by Ted Heath in Parliament, that such a trading arrangement DID NOT involve loss of sovereignty or democracy .... and when the so called 'Common Market' morphed into the undemocratic EU, the UK citizens were denied the opportunity to democratically VOTE on participation in the undemocratiic , and unwarranted political entity, probably because by then, the British people had finally realised the TRUTH!!

When allowed the opportunity to decide for themselves, they wisely voted to remedy  that situation ....which is democracy in action is it not? The Common Market is a completely different 'kettle' of fish compared to the current EU....and when given the opportunity to remedy that situation, took  it at the first time of asking!!

Democratically therefore,  it is important for that result to be implemented forthwith, despite rule by democracy being anathema to you Europhiles.

[Sheepy]

So what.. because the Remainers were corrupt and fecked about nonstop that makes it OK for this Brexi govt to do the same?

Is this what things have descended into..

How do you mean so what, the whole thing was based on utter lies and propaganda. If Westminster knew which they did, guess who else knew?

I mean it as in "...so.. what, this is how things are?" not as in "so what.. I don't care".

Of course the whole thing has been lies and propaganda. But at least be straight and admit that every side has engaged in it - yes including the EU at times too - as you'd expect from politicians.

The answer to me is to accept that Brexit was always a distraction from day to day running of the country, if you want to force things through with no oversight then that's what you do. And before you start attacking me, Tory remainers are equally as guilty of that and several Labour & LD people with big shares in pharma and other large corporate interests...

I have said all along the Westminster party are one and the same, don't try and make out I have lied about it, like I have also said the Tories asked for a doggies chance and were given one.