Welcome to the new normal 'policing'...

[johnofgwent]

Are you ready to "defund the police"?

I am more than ready to defund a whole layer of their "management" and ideologists, and indeed our first PCC had a damn good go at doing just that, but was stopped from completing the task.

But I suspect chucking out those who think waving a rainbow flag and feeling each other's sensitive sides more important than feeling criminals collars is not quite the defunding this thread is about is it

[Good old]

I tend to agree our whole judicial system, needs rebalancing. The police do in many cases have a hand tied behind their back. By the proportion of ethnics in court or prison , race is not considered an excuse, but the disadvantaged aspect is at times.  Disadvantage has always played its part in crime as it often produces desperation . It  maybe carries  some  weight in courts at times.  But the system is built around money and the courts are under funded, the prison service is underfunded, the police is underfunded. To a degree that even if an administration had the will to harden its justice system, would they have the will to pay the price of it.? This one doesn't, just makes noises.
In the long run , one will not work without the other , all components will need more bodies and facilities.
But to do nothing , because it's difficult for the courts  to assess what a criminal  actually is , and even more difficult to pay for can not be accepted. Unless the lunatics are going to take over the asylum.

Actually Good Old I found myself nodding in agreement with much of that - maybe you are Old Labour after all 

Lord knows, I was 'disadvantaged' myself, but I didn't make it an excuse for everything I ever did wrong - many people are disadvantaged, and sure it contributes to crime, but not everyone becomes a thief, a drug dealer or a con artist. Meanwhile, the Police themselves are so obsessed with diversity and targets that perceived 'hate' crime (you only have to call it that, you don't necessarily have to prove it to get a response) absorbs far too much of their resources - they never even contacted me, because the crime I suffered is worth feck all to them

In the end, I decided to pay for the damage to my car myself, as the loss of NCD would have cost more - that's the world we live in now

I was born into a political bed further left than old Labour, I would say. Life led me to a place where having a much broader outlook on life was essential for my personal benefit. I make no excuse of that , As with everyone else it was my right.  However I really don't exclude myself from a range of opinion. The fact is I don't join clubs. And I ignore labels.

[DeppityDawg]

I tend to agree our whole judicial system, needs rebalancing. The police do in many cases have a hand tied behind their back. By the proportion of ethnics in court or prison , race is not considered an excuse, but the disadvantaged aspect is at times.  Disadvantage has always played its part in crime as it often produces desperation . It  maybe carries  some  weight in courts at times.  But the system is built around money and the courts are under funded, the prison service is underfunded, the police is underfunded. To a degree that even if an administration had the will to harden its justice system, would they have the will to pay the price of it.? This one doesn't, just makes noises.
In the long run , one will not work without the other , all components will need more bodies and facilities.
But to do nothing , because it's difficult for the courts  to assess what a criminal  actually is , and even more difficult to pay for can not be accepted. Unless the lunatics are going to take over the asylum.

Actually Good Old I found myself nodding in agreement with much of that - maybe you are Old Labour after all 

Lord knows, I was 'disadvantaged' myself, but I didn't make it an excuse for everything I ever did wrong - many people are disadvantaged, and sure it contributes to crime, but not everyone becomes a thief, a drug dealer or a con artist. Meanwhile, the Police themselves are so obsessed with diversity and targets that perceived 'hate' crime (you only have to call it that, you don't necessarily have to prove it to get a response) absorbs far too much of their resources - they never even contacted me, because the crime I suffered is worth feck all to them

In the end, I decided to pay for the damage to my car myself, as the loss of NCD would have cost more - that's the world we live in now

[Thomas]

Across the board British , police forces we are short of bodies . If that's not so in Scotland, and unlike you I would not know, then fiddly Dee! But in the rest of the UK , it's a situation that is smacking us all in the face and recognised  none more so than in the ranks of serving police officials. And it needs sorting.

You said its a uk problem which is a problem for the uk government. Im simply pointing out that police scotland is a seperate force , and always has been.

Thats because as any child knows , scotland has its own legal system and criminal justice system , which has been the case long before devolution  , and is enshrined in the 300 year old treaty of union.

Once under the power of the SOS for scotland , now its under the control of the scottish parliament. So to start with , you cant as ever get the basics correct.

You go on...

Across the board British , police forces we are short of bodies

sure , but the devolved seperate scottish polis have more police per head of population than england.

What did labour do when they were in power in scotland to fund more scottish polis?

If you remember when labour were in charge , they had crime in scotland through the roof , and glasgow (funnily enough now like labour controlled london surprise surprise) as the murder and knife crimw capital of the western world.

All of which the snp have eliminated.

If that's not so in Scotland, and unlike you I would not know, then fiddly Dee! But in the rest of the UK , it's a situation that is smacking us all in the face and recognised  none more so than in the ranks of serving police officials. And it needs sorting.

Heres what you can start with.

Police Scotland only UK force made to pay VAT

Police Scotland has paid a total VAT tax bill of £76.5 million since its formation in 2013 – and remains the only UK force which is unable to reclaim the tax.

http://archive.is/Oxqtt

UK Government short-changing Scotland's emergency services, SNP claims
Scotland's emergency services have been "needlessly deprived" of resources by the UK Government's refusal to refund VAT charges, it has been claimed.

https://www.scotsman.com/regions/uk-government-short-changing-scotlands-emergency-services-snp-claims-102028


The labour party were quite happy  to blame the snp government for this state of affairs , while in england blaming the tory government for reducing police numbers.

Lets not forget though labours time in power and their profligacy which caused the tories to have to make cut backs , which in turn affected the block grant westminster gives back to scotland for running the country.

[Sheepy]

Stand your ground dawg, you know the rules don't let the bastard grind you down, it is what he wants, if you become despondent he has won.

[papasmurf]

I tend to agree our whole judicial system, needs rebalancing.

Currently it is in a state of near collapse due to multiple cock-ups by Failing Grayling. It is in a hole that will take a lot of filling.

[Good old]

But in the rest of the UK , it's a situation that is smacking us all in the face and recognised  none more so than in the ranks of serving police officials. And it needs sorting.

There's little point in having more numbers in a Police force that won't act or is hamstrung by political correctness, or by a failing Judical system that believes that crime is only and always the result of "inequality and racism". How long will it be before the word 'criminal' is erased and replaced with something like "disadvantaged person"?

I tend to agree our whole judicial system, needs rebalancing. The police do in many cases have a hand tied behind their back. By the proportion of ethnics in court or prison , race is not considered an excuse, but the disadvantaged aspect is at times.  Disadvantage has always played its part in crime as it often produces desperation . It  maybe carries  some  weight in courts at times.  But the system is built around money and the courts are under funded, the prison service is underfunded, the police is underfunded. To a degree that even if an administration had the will to harden its justice system, would they have the will to pay the price of it.? This one doesn't, just makes noises.
In the long run , one will not work without the other , all components will need more bodies and facilities.
But to do nothing , because it's difficult for the courts  to assess what a criminal  actually is , and even more difficult to pay for can not be accepted. Unless the lunatics are going to take over the asylum.

[Sheepy]

Now where were we, oh the police, stop making them into social workers in the first place then.

[T00ts]

But in the rest of the UK , it's a situation that is smacking us all in the face and recognised  none more so than in the ranks of serving police officials. And it needs sorting.

There's little point in having more numbers in a Police force that won't act or is hamstrung by political correctness, or by a failing Judical system that believes that crime is only and always the result of "inequality and racism". How long will it be before the word 'criminal' is erased and replaced with something like "disadvantaged person"?

Gosh don't put that thought in their heads!

[DeppityDawg]

But in the rest of the UK , it's a situation that is smacking us all in the face and recognised  none more so than in the ranks of serving police officials. And it needs sorting.

There's little point in having more numbers in a Police force that won't act or is hamstrung by political correctness, or by a failing Judical system that believes that crime is only and always the result of "inequality and racism". How long will it be before the word 'criminal' is erased and replaced with something like "disadvantaged person"?

[Good old]

Thomas, it's a UK problem, that means it is a problem for a UK government. 

Police powers and functions

Most police powers and functions are devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

Across the board British , police forces we are short of bodies . If that's not so in Scotland, and unlike you I would not know, then fiddly Dee! But in the rest of the UK , it's a situation that is smacking us all in the face and recognised  none more so than in the ranks of serving police officials. And it needs sorting.

[Thomas]

Thomas, it's a UK problem, that means it is a problem for a UK government. 

Police powers and functions

Most police powers and functions are devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

[papasmurf]

I doubt more police could stop an incident like this one though.  Breaking and developing news:-

https://news.sky.com/story/police-declare-serious-incident-after-reports-of-shooting-in-ipswich-12065798

Monday 7 September 2020 11:36, UK
BREAKING 
Police declare 'serious incident' after reports of shooting involving pupil on way to school
Kesgrave High School confirmed a teenage pupil was involved in the incident.

There has now been an arrest:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-54055551

[papasmurf]

. And anyway all he needs to do is register the fact that present levels are to low to be efficient .

He has that it not widely reported is the media/press fault not his:-

https://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/crime-court/georgia-gould-and-keir-starmer-call-for-more-police-funding-1-6269636

[Good old]

Thomas, it's a UK problem, that means it is a problem for a UK government.  Keep bringing Scots devolved Government, wrangles into every situation  is nothing other than a distraction from the actual issue. In this case it's a problem created in the main by the party in power.  It's not Starmers problem yet. And anyway all he needs to do is register the fact that present levels are to low to be efficient . He has four years to see how low it gets before making any firm decision on the problem. 
Even if Starmer had firm policy  right now it's of no use. As it's a problem that needs urgent attention, and only the present administration are in a position to act.