Facts about Covid-19

[T00ts]

Your post seems like a 180° about-face.

I'm a woman -- what do you expect?

So you're saying I should expect sudden about-faces? Yet I know plenty of ultra stubborn women who wouldn't change their opinion so suddenly.....

So what does gender have to do with it?

I am not a BJ fan particularly but the man is elected with a big majority and if we are to respect democracy the least we can do is let him do what he can.

And who is physically stopping him?

Do you think he even cares what random people on an obscure forum think of him? At best we are digested by some algorithim which measures public opinion, and which maybe tailors adverts and propaganda for us.

I think the odds are huge against anyone in his seat. I think the advice has been questionable. He is not great himself at detail and has lost his edge, I guess due to ongoing health problems with Covid, but he seems to be surrounded by people of equal lack lustre.

Fair enough.

I don't think he or anyone in Westminster is great, but they are there and we are here and we need to man up and help ourselves out of the mire. To just sit and complain and castigate isn't helpful. With public opinion being pushed hither and thither we can hardly expect him to be courageous if  he is constantly looking over his shoulder to see who is going to stab him in the back next.

That's the Tory party MO - backstabbery.

We, the humble moany undersigned, the petitionerd on some obscure interwebs forum, screeching into the aether can hardly be blamed for Tory party internal politics. If he screams infamy infamy, they've all got it in for me, it'll be because that's the way the internals in the Tory party tends to play out.

Your champion is hardly leaping forward with stupendous ideas, he is counting his blessings that he is not in the front line, as are most in Westminster.

Au contraire, he has many stupid ideas, but I agree... but then he is facing being bankrupted by multiple legal challenges isn't he? Because he's so dangerous as a backbencher...

But he's not my 'champion', he was a slightly-less-crap option which is surely high praise indeed.

I don't think my opinion has changed so much. I have agreed that BJ is not a perfect choice from day one but he was elected on just one ticket. On that I think he was the only choice. Since then the world has turned upside down and this is where I feel it has all become unfair. Do they care what we think? Of course they do. There is a national opinion that they care about very much. We are but a microcosm of that opinion and any party in power is foolish to ignore it.

[Sheepy]

And who is physically stopping him?

There are a lot of dodgy experts about for a start, who seem to have relished in the attention and mostly made things much worse for everyone. So more a case of, did he take the right advice or the wrong advice.

[Borg Refinery]

Your post seems like a 180° about-face.

I'm a woman -- what do you expect?

So you're saying I should expect sudden about-faces? Yet I know plenty of ultra stubborn women who wouldn't change their opinion so suddenly.....

So what does gender have to do with it?

I am not a BJ fan particularly but the man is elected with a big majority and if we are to respect democracy the least we can do is let him do what he can.

And who is physically stopping him?

Do you think he even cares what random people on an obscure forum think of him? At best we are digested by some algorithim which measures public opinion, and which maybe tailors adverts and propaganda for us.

I think the odds are huge against anyone in his seat. I think the advice has been questionable. He is not great himself at detail and has lost his edge, I guess due to ongoing health problems with Covid, but he seems to be surrounded by people of equal lack lustre.

Fair enough.

I don't think he or anyone in Westminster is great, but they are there and we are here and we need to man up and help ourselves out of the mire. To just sit and complain and castigate isn't helpful. With public opinion being pushed hither and thither we can hardly expect him to be courageous if  he is constantly looking over his shoulder to see who is going to stab him in the back next.

That's the Tory party MO - backstabbery.

We, the humble moany undersigned, the petitionerd on some obscure interwebs forum, screeching into the aether can hardly be blamed for Tory party internal politics. If he screams infamy infamy, they've all got it in for me, it'll be because that's the way the internals in the Tory party tends to play out.

Your champion is hardly leaping forward with stupendous ideas, he is counting his blessings that he is not in the front line, as are most in Westminster.

Au contraire, he has many stupid ideas, but I agree... but then he is facing being bankrupted by multiple legal challenges isn't he? Because he's so dangerous as a backbencher...

But he's not my 'champion', he was a slightly-less-crap option which is surely high praise indeed.

[T00ts]

What are you saying - that numbers don't count if they aren't in ICU ?

No, I'm asking a question, which you haven't answered.
However, if the infections are amongst young fit people, who are not suffering serious symptoms, that is a good thing as the herd immunity is increasing.
Like I said:

BREAKING: Latest figures show there have been no covid-related deaths, recorded by hospital trusts in the West Midlands, for a week. It's the first time this has happened since the start of the pandemic.

I not sure that hospital admissions/deaths are necessarily relevant to my case. I am told that if I get it I am high risk to be adding to the stats. I am out and about but being very careful when I do purely to protect myself. Increasing numbers of even 'mild' cases are bound to wave a red flag in my direction. Last I heard herd immunity is a long way off. I don't think that with the best will in the world we can be certain of where we are at present and the pulling back on freedoms suggests that complacency is misplaced.

[Sheepy]

Your post seems like a 180° about-face.

I'm a woman -- what do you expect? I am not a BJ fan particularly but the man is elected with a big majority and if we are to respect democracy the least we can do is let him do what he can. I think the odds are huge against anyone in his seat. I think the advice has been questionable. He is not great himself at detail and has lost his edge, I guess due to ongoing health problems with Covid, but he seems to be surrounded by people of equal lack lustre. I don't think he or anyone in Westminster is great, but they are there and we are here and we need to man up and help ourselves out of the mire. To just sit and complain and castigate isn't helpful. With public opinion being pushed hither and thither we can hardly expect him to be courageous if  he is constantly looking over his shoulder to see who is going to stab him in the back next.

Your champion is hardly leaping forward with stupendous ideas, he is counting his blessings that he is not in the front line, as are most in Westminster.

dunno, as long as you don't get dragged down into the murky depths by the likes of smurf, where you will spread Bipolar disorder it doesn't matter. There is probably some wisdom in there somewhere.

[T00ts]

Your post seems like a 180° about-face.

I'm a woman -- what do you expect? I am not a BJ fan particularly but the man is elected with a big majority and if we are to respect democracy the least we can do is let him do what he can. I think the odds are huge against anyone in his seat. I think the advice has been questionable. He is not great himself at detail and has lost his edge, I guess due to ongoing health problems with Covid, but he seems to be surrounded by people of equal lack lustre. I don't think he or anyone in Westminster is great, but they are there and we are here and we need to man up and help ourselves out of the mire. To just sit and complain and castigate isn't helpful. With public opinion being pushed hither and thither we can hardly expect him to be courageous if  he is constantly looking over his shoulder to see who is going to stab him in the back next.

Your champion is hardly leaping forward with stupendous ideas, he is counting his blessings that he is not in the front line, as are most in Westminster.

[Borg Refinery]

The complainers may well think they would have done it differently so maybe it's time to stand for election and find out what the hot seat really feels like.

Oh come on, Toots. This government tilts at a new fecking windmill every single day. They react to every last tiny little whisper of public opinion, its as if we are being governed over twitter or by the BBC. The whole bullshit line about being guided by the science was because Boris Johnson, despite all his fantasies about being some kind of modern day Churchill, is too fecking scared to take the actual responsibility of governing. His own advisors can't even follow their own fecking advice, which to be honest is hardly surprising, because it charges so rapidly that no one can hope to keep up with it. From the Nightingale white elephant, to the muddled and incoherent "herd immunity strategy" to the testing fiasco, its been a complete farce from day one. Its hard to imagine even Corbyn could have fecked it up more completely than this shower of fecking idiots. The only exception is Rishi Sunak, who alone seems to be the only competent member of the entire cabinet

No DD it's easy to say all that and of course there are those with an agenda who put it forward. I don't agree. I defy anyone to do substantially better in their position. With the society that we have they failed to appeal to their better nature because generally they don't have one. They didn't want to lockdown and even now people won't distance. Some societies will take orders/instruction. The Swedes for a start are more socially minded than many of us, and some countries simply do as they are told. We don't, only those of us at real risk. Years and years of Left wing culture has given  us a generation or more with masses with little understanding of anything much outside the Kardashians etc.

No it's not just a government fault. It is even more the fault of Health England who failed to even begin to appreciate what was heading our way.  Even more it is the fault of the fools in society who pretend it doesn't matter what they are asked to do for the sake of all of us.

So you're blaming all the youngsters for not understanding anything more than the Kardashians?

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly the reason for our numerous failures and had nothing to do with a govt which makes even the Kardashians look like geniuses in comparison, by gosh I've no idea what that says about the people supporting this govt so heavily..

I was quite careful not to suggest that it was all youngsters. I am as worried about people like your daughter as anyone. Surely you have to agree that we have a percentage of the population not prepared to listen to reason or instruction? We are not where we are just because of government action. It's the easiest thing possible to blame whoever the leaders of the day are. If Corbyn had the job he would have had the same advice, the same sort of people bending his ear and he might even have caught it and died. It's too simple to say that a different man in the hot seat would have done any better. Not only that he would have been dealing with the same people in the street. Perhaps his left wing might have brought to troops into the streets for all I know.

Coming back to your daughter's plight though, it's time we all pull together for their sakes and that is where it is all falling apart. If stopping people mixing doesn't slow the virus down it will  be a nightmare. Just because we have avoided it so far doesn't mean it's a myth.

Not sure why you're telling me this, I've said all of that word for word across this place for a while - but I can't see Corbyn having done a worse job, that was all I said.

You are seemingly trying to say this govt couldn't have done any better, which is frankly ridiculous. It is ridiculous, Toots.

You just can't expect anyone reasonable to seriously believe that.

I guess you're practising Christian apologism for the govt, commendable but come on..

What on earth is Christian apologism? My faith has nothing to do with it.

We are encouraged to make excuses for others' failings so we don't end up harshly judging anyone, not even our enemies.

I'm not very good at that obvioysly, others are.

Perhaps I replied to the wrong post, but that apart I don't agree that it is ridiculous just because I don't jump on the let's all knock the government band wagon.

But you did jump on the govt several times and agreed with lots of criticisms made of Bojo.

Your post seems like a 180° about-face.

Mistakes were made at the beginning. People who should have known better were complacent, the scientific advice given was possibly flawed but as far as I remember the general consensus at the start of all this was that they were doing a reasonable job.

It's telling that you say 'at the beginning' and refer not to the middle or the end.

We have enough problems getting quality people into Westminster as it is and with the current fashion for battering people no matter what they do, we will get the MPs etc that we deserve.

We are English, what do you expect?

[Barry]

What are you saying - that numbers don't count if they aren't in ICU ?

No, I'm asking a question, which you haven't answered.
However, if the infections are amongst young fit people, who are not suffering serious symptoms, that is a good thing as the herd immunity is increasing.
Like I said:

BREAKING: Latest figures show there have been no covid-related deaths, recorded by hospital trusts in the West Midlands, for a week. It's the first time this has happened since the start of the pandemic.

[T00ts]

The complainers may well think they would have done it differently so maybe it's time to stand for election and find out what the hot seat really feels like.

Oh come on, Toots. This government tilts at a new fecking windmill every single day. They react to every last tiny little whisper of public opinion, its as if we are being governed over twitter or by the BBC. The whole bullshit line about being guided by the science was because Boris Johnson, despite all his fantasies about being some kind of modern day Churchill, is too fecking scared to take the actual responsibility of governing. His own advisors can't even follow their own fecking advice, which to be honest is hardly surprising, because it charges so rapidly that no one can hope to keep up with it. From the Nightingale white elephant, to the muddled and incoherent "herd immunity strategy" to the testing fiasco, its been a complete farce from day one. Its hard to imagine even Corbyn could have fecked it up more completely than this shower of fecking idiots. The only exception is Rishi Sunak, who alone seems to be the only competent member of the entire cabinet

No DD it's easy to say all that and of course there are those with an agenda who put it forward. I don't agree. I defy anyone to do substantially better in their position. With the society that we have they failed to appeal to their better nature because generally they don't have one. They didn't want to lockdown and even now people won't distance. Some societies will take orders/instruction. The Swedes for a start are more socially minded than many of us, and some countries simply do as they are told. We don't, only those of us at real risk. Years and years of Left wing culture has given  us a generation or more with masses with little understanding of anything much outside the Kardashians etc.

No it's not just a government fault. It is even more the fault of Health England who failed to even begin to appreciate what was heading our way.  Even more it is the fault of the fools in society who pretend it doesn't matter what they are asked to do for the sake of all of us.

So you're blaming all the youngsters for not understanding anything more than the Kardashians?

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly the reason for our numerous failures and had nothing to do with a govt which makes even the Kardashians look like geniuses in comparison, by gosh I've no idea what that says about the people supporting this govt so heavily..

I was quite careful not to suggest that it was all youngsters. I am as worried about people like your daughter as anyone. Surely you have to agree that we have a percentage of the population not prepared to listen to reason or instruction? We are not where we are just because of government action. It's the easiest thing possible to blame whoever the leaders of the day are. If Corbyn had the job he would have had the same advice, the same sort of people bending his ear and he might even have caught it and died. It's too simple to say that a different man in the hot seat would have done any better. Not only that he would have been dealing with the same people in the street. Perhaps his left wing might have brought to troops into the streets for all I know.

Coming back to your daughter's plight though, it's time we all pull together for their sakes and that is where it is all falling apart. If stopping people mixing doesn't slow the virus down it will  be a nightmare. Just because we have avoided it so far doesn't mean it's a myth.

Not sure why you're telling me this, I've said all of that word for word across this place for a while - but I can't see Corbyn having done a worse job, that was all I said.

You are seemingly trying to say this govt couldn't have done any better, which is frankly ridiculous. It is ridiculous, Toots.

You just can't expect anyone reasonable to seriously believe that.

I guess you're practising Christian apologism for the govt, commendable but come on..

What on earth is Christian apologism? My faith has nothing to do with it.  Perhaps I replied to the wrong post, but that apart I don't agree that it is ridiculous just because I don't jump on the let's all knock the government band wagon. Mistakes were made at the beginning. People who should have known better were complacent, the scientific advice given was possibly flawed but as far as I remember the general consensus at the start of all this was that they were doing a reasonable job. We have enough problems getting quality people into Westminster as it is and with the current fashion for battering people no matter what they do, we will get the MPs etc that we deserve.

[Borg Refinery]

The complainers may well think they would have done it differently so maybe it's time to stand for election and find out what the hot seat really feels like.

Oh come on, Toots. This government tilts at a new fecking windmill every single day. They react to every last tiny little whisper of public opinion, its as if we are being governed over twitter or by the BBC. The whole bullshit line about being guided by the science was because Boris Johnson, despite all his fantasies about being some kind of modern day Churchill, is too fecking scared to take the actual responsibility of governing. His own advisors can't even follow their own fecking advice, which to be honest is hardly surprising, because it charges so rapidly that no one can hope to keep up with it. From the Nightingale white elephant, to the muddled and incoherent "herd immunity strategy" to the testing fiasco, its been a complete farce from day one. Its hard to imagine even Corbyn could have fecked it up more completely than this shower of fecking idiots. The only exception is Rishi Sunak, who alone seems to be the only competent member of the entire cabinet

No DD it's easy to say all that and of course there are those with an agenda who put it forward. I don't agree. I defy anyone to do substantially better in their position. With the society that we have they failed to appeal to their better nature because generally they don't have one. They didn't want to lockdown and even now people won't distance. Some societies will take orders/instruction. The Swedes for a start are more socially minded than many of us, and some countries simply do as they are told. We don't, only those of us at real risk. Years and years of Left wing culture has given  us a generation or more with masses with little understanding of anything much outside the Kardashians etc.

No it's not just a government fault. It is even more the fault of Health England who failed to even begin to appreciate what was heading our way.  Even more it is the fault of the fools in society who pretend it doesn't matter what they are asked to do for the sake of all of us.

So you're blaming all the youngsters for not understanding anything more than the Kardashians?

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly the reason for our numerous failures and had nothing to do with a govt which makes even the Kardashians look like geniuses in comparison, by gosh I've no idea what that says about the people supporting this govt so heavily..

I was quite careful not to suggest that it was all youngsters. I am as worried about people like your daughter as anyone. Surely you have to agree that we have a percentage of the population not prepared to listen to reason or instruction? We are not where we are just because of government action. It's the easiest thing possible to blame whoever the leaders of the day are. If Corbyn had the job he would have had the same advice, the same sort of people bending his ear and he might even have caught it and died. It's too simple to say that a different man in the hot seat would have done any better. Not only that he would have been dealing with the same people in the street. Perhaps his left wing might have brought to troops into the streets for all I know.

Coming back to your daughter's plight though, it's time we all pull together for their sakes and that is where it is all falling apart. If stopping people mixing doesn't slow the virus down it will  be a nightmare. Just because we have avoided it so far doesn't mean it's a myth.

Not sure why you're telling me this, I've said all of that word for word across this place for a while - but I can't see Corbyn having done a worse job, that was all I said.

You are seemingly trying to say this govt couldn't have done any better, which is frankly ridiculous. It is ridiculous, Toots.

You just can't expect anyone reasonable to seriously believe that.

I guess you're practising Christian apologism for the govt, commendable but come on..

[T00ts]

Numbers are increasing in areas surrounding me I gather.

How many C-19 patients has your local hospital got, T00ts and how many in ICU or on ventilators?

What are you saying - that numbers don't count if they aren't in ICU ?

[Barry]

Numbers are increasing in areas surrounding me I gather.

How many C-19 patients has your local hospital got, T00ts and how many in ICU or on ventilators?

[T00ts]

It's not just the deaths though, think of the much larger number of covid-19 survivors who have been seriously ill, possibly requiring critical care.

Well, I would, but most hospitals haven't got any Covid patients, let alone any in critical care or on ventilators.

Numbers are increasing in areas surrounding me I gather. I don't think the medical profession have begun to properly recognise those who were not hospitalised, let alone those who had intensive care, who are struggling physically since 'recovering'. The more people who we can save from those long term affects the better. It will an ongoing debt for many years.

[T00ts]

The complainers may well think they would have done it differently so maybe it's time to stand for election and find out what the hot seat really feels like.

Oh come on, Toots. This government tilts at a new fecking windmill every single day. They react to every last tiny little whisper of public opinion, its as if we are being governed over twitter or by the BBC. The whole bullshit line about being guided by the science was because Boris Johnson, despite all his fantasies about being some kind of modern day Churchill, is too fecking scared to take the actual responsibility of governing. His own advisors can't even follow their own fecking advice, which to be honest is hardly surprising, because it charges so rapidly that no one can hope to keep up with it. From the Nightingale white elephant, to the muddled and incoherent "herd immunity strategy" to the testing fiasco, its been a complete farce from day one. Its hard to imagine even Corbyn could have fecked it up more completely than this shower of fecking idiots. The only exception is Rishi Sunak, who alone seems to be the only competent member of the entire cabinet

No DD it's easy to say all that and of course there are those with an agenda who put it forward. I don't agree. I defy anyone to do substantially better in their position. With the society that we have they failed to appeal to their better nature because generally they don't have one. They didn't want to lockdown and even now people won't distance. Some societies will take orders/instruction. The Swedes for a start are more socially minded than many of us, and some countries simply do as they are told. We don't, only those of us at real risk. Years and years of Left wing culture has given  us a generation or more with masses with little understanding of anything much outside the Kardashians etc.

No it's not just a government fault. It is even more the fault of Health England who failed to even begin to appreciate what was heading our way.  Even more it is the fault of the fools in society who pretend it doesn't matter what they are asked to do for the sake of all of us.

So you're blaming all the youngsters for not understanding anything more than the Kardashians?

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly the reason for our numerous failures and had nothing to do with a govt which makes even the Kardashians look like geniuses in comparison, by gosh I've no idea what that says about the people supporting this govt so heavily..

I was quite careful not to suggest that it was all youngsters. I am as worried about people like your daughter as anyone. Surely you have to agree that we have a percentage of the population not prepared to listen to reason or instruction? We are not where we are just because of government action. It's the easiest thing possible to blame whoever the leaders of the day are. If Corbyn had the job he would have had the same advice, the same sort of people bending his ear and he might even have caught it and died. It's too simple to say that a different man in the hot seat would have done any better. Not only that he would have been dealing with the same people in the street. Perhaps his left wing might have brought to troops into the streets for all I know.

Coming back to your daughter's plight though, it's time we all pull together for their sakes and that is where it is all falling apart. If stopping people mixing doesn't slow the virus down it will  be a nightmare. Just because we have avoided it so far doesn't mean it's a myth.

[Barry]

It's not just the deaths though, think of the much larger number of covid-19 survivors who have been seriously ill, possibly requiring critical care.

Well, I would, but most hospitals haven't got any Covid patients, let alone any in critical care or on ventilators.