Track and trace fail

[Borg Refinery]

I'll attempt a few.
If, and it's a big IF trick and treat managed to save 1000 lives, that would be at a cost of £22,000,000 per life.
That is not value for money in life years saved. Don't think I'm being callous here.

When people say a life is priceless, it is difficult to value. However, N.I.C.E. do it all the time.
https://moneyweek.com/economy/uk-economy/602389/was-lockdown-worth-the-cost
Now you know what a QALY is.

I actually have read about QALY's before, but that is a really good article. Thanks. You make a compelling point.

Btw I've stated for ages now that there is a  FALSE dichotomy between pure herd immunity vs total lock down. Neither are A) possible or B) anything that anyone would want, in their right mind.

I've pointed out that we could easily have had localised lockdowns, and kept most of the economy going - and with a relatively simple but effective test/track and trace system as Pappy points out, we'd have both saved more lives, it would actually have worked better and been more efficient AND it would have saved huge amounts of money and the economy wouldn't have been closed down.

We could have had the best of all worlds, but instead our politcians and yes, many in the EU (many are saying that the COVID response in the EU is the precursor to the end of the EU -as they have failed so abysmally - but does that somehow detract from our own failings? of course not), as well as others have dealt with this pandemic completely wrongly.

I know no one has dealt with the pandemic well, but some HAVE done a lot better than others.

People were suggesting over on the yank forum I haunt, that you can't have complex localised lockdowns, I pointed out that that's not true at all - of course you can, it might be a bit complex logistically but once again - do the cost-benefit analysis vs locking down the economy.

You lockdown one, just one part of London and see how much that costs in a few hours. We should have kept the economic centres of the country going as much as possible, I don't agree with the unfair concentration of wealth down south but that IS how our country is configured for now; we have to work with what we've got, you can lockdown other areas more stringently based on how many cases they have.

By the way, did you see the CNN report on CHina's cover-up of COVID?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/30/asia/wuhan-china-covid-intl/index.html

Again, if we locked down travel to effected areas and introduced PROPER testing/quarantine much earlier as I suggested on that 'other forum' and got called a racist for it, by loads of people, we could have restricted the spread of COVID very easily. I pointed this out so many times and no one bloody listened..

[Barry]

With the budget for the NHS Test and Trace Service (NHST&T) for 2020-21 soaring to £22 billion, the financial watchdogs said the situation needed to improve."

Are there words?

I'll attempt a few.
If, and it's a big IF trick and treat managed to save 1000 lives, that would be at a cost of £22,000,000 per life.
That is not value for money in life years saved. Don't think I'm being callous here.

When people say a life is priceless, it is difficult to value. However, N.I.C.E. do it all the time.
https://moneyweek.com/economy/uk-economy/602389/was-lockdown-worth-the-cost
Now you know what a QALY is.

Edited to correct my maths!

[Borg Refinery]

Sounds good, maybe the government should take note and folks should forward details about it to the relevant committees and stuff, seriously.

On the other hand, the isle of wight is having less serious issues..

http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2020/05/05/isle-of-wight-tracing-app-is-just-a-man-ringing-bell-shouting-unclean/


An NHS app aimed at limiting the spread of Coronavirus, is being trialled on the Isle of Wight; alongside transistor radios, the typewriter and toilets that flush. Despite this, the most effective way for the Islanders to lower death rates, is to stop burning witches.

The App itself will involve leeches and being dunked in the village pond. Those infected, will be expected to carry a bell at all times, with a sign saying '20% off a family ticket for Blackgang Chine'.

George, a VCR repairman from Ventnor, expressed his concern: 'It's all very well the Government telling us to use social distancing but how are we expected to visit the local apothecary to get our mercury and arsenic potions?'

The island's plague doctors offered this advice: 'If you're stuck at home, you can easily make a poultice from cow dung and powdered unicorn horn. Try to avoid other people, as they may have been exposed to the 21st century. At all times, cover your face with a Mummer's mask. And wash your hands – only kidding – soap is the work of the devil!'

[papasmurf]

But how well does it work?

Very well  because it does not use a lot of technology.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3248

[Borg Refinery]

There has been a localised track and trace system for notifiable diseases in place for a very long time.

But how well does it work? You were saying you got flooded with pointless notifications and spam the other day, after the fact, as usual and that it was of no use to you?

They haven't helped you have they. It sounds like you've had a tough year from your posting, partly because they aren't helping people enough or giving them correct information. But I bet the local system is a lot better than the national one. They try to look after people in Cornwall even with the very limited resources they've got, which is nice..

[papasmurf]

Papi's idea of track and trace - track down all the people with coronavirus, trace them with the ACOG sight and shoot them in the face.

Problem solved!

There has been a localised track and trace system for notifiable diseases in place for a very long time.

[Borg Refinery]

Papi's idea of track and trace - track down all the people with coronavirus, trace them with the ACOG sight and shoot them in the face.

Problem solved!

I won the forum award for spamming and exuberance, and as original thoughts don't enter my head, I copied that over, it's true.I even copied my own text about not having original thoughts several times over verbatim, now that's original.

Anyway, pap is right isn't he, it was a disaster. But ignore as usual etc.. I don't much like Douglas Ross.

[Thomas]

You really do not want me in government.

i do. You would be a feckin breath of fresh air pappy.

seriously.

you might think im joking , im not.

[T00ts]

You really do not want me in government.

This is true!

[papasmurf]

we need you in government pappy you have all the answers .

You really do not want me in government.

[T00ts]

we need you in government pappy you have all the answers .

Don't!! 

[Thomas]

Not whilst contracted out to a company with an appalling track record.  It should have been localised.

we need you in government pappy you have all the answers .

[papasmurf]

I'm not convinced that t & t could ever have worked.

Not whilst contracted out to a company with an appalling track record.  It should have been localised.

[T00ts]

sure and europe has had the same disaster from contact tracing we have.

it was only the end of august start of september articles like this were circulating showing the uk isnt the only place that had problems with contact tracing.

https://www.ft.com/content/86a818bb-a5d7-495c-98c8-6209f019ca71

is this the line of attack? Has the democrats emboldened you that using covid 19 to attack johnson will put starmer in place the way trump was ousted in yank land dyno?

we dont vote for presidents or prime ministers as you know dyno , and if we did , most folk wouldnt vote starmer.

you carry on though mate.

Instead of spamming the forum with anti tory links , maybe just maybe the fact hasnt entered your head people arent brainwashed with johnson and his party , its just they dont like the alternative more.


....and as you can't come up with a solution to lab / tory tennis..................

I'm not convinced that t & t could ever have worked. It might be ok with nations where civic obedience is instilled from birth - assuming the IT was workable but here? No way. It's been obvious from the word go that there are a good number who no matter the threats will not tow the line. It worked for a while back in March  but we are out and out freedom -aholics so it was inevitable that it would fail. That having been said we can hardly blame the Government for trying. They have tried every which way to control the spread. Ok some measures have failed but that's the nature of government. I defy anyone to do any better. We have seen the same problems worldwide. Why should we expect a different outcome?

On a USA forum I visit one poster pointed out today that more than were killed in the 9/11 Twin Tower tragedy died there today. That breaks my heart.

[Thomas]

https://www.southwalesguardian.co.uk/news/national/18936620.financial-watchdogs-criticise-governments-handling-test-trace/

The track and trace system has been one of the hugest disasters under this incompetent government, actually calling them incompetent devalues the currency of the word incompetent... there aren't words for the things they've done.

Take this for example -

"The NAO found that at times "parts of the national tracing service have barely been used".

Some call handlers were busy for only 1% of their paid hours in the early days of Test and Trace, the study said.

...

With the budget for the NHS Test and Trace Service (NHST&T) for 2020-21 soaring to £22 billion, the financial watchdogs said the situation needed to improve."

Are there words?

sure and europe has had the same disaster from contact tracing we have.

it was only the end of august start of september articles like this were circulating showing the uk isnt the only place that had problems with contact tracing.

https://www.ft.com/content/86a818bb-a5d7-495c-98c8-6209f019ca71

is this the line of attack? Has the democrats emboldened you that using covid 19 to attack johnson will put starmer in place the way trump was ousted in yank land dyno?

we dont vote for presidents or prime ministers as you know dyno , and if we did , most folk wouldnt vote starmer.

you carry on though mate.

Instead of spamming the forum with anti tory links , maybe just maybe the fact hasnt entered your head people arent brainwashed with johnson and his party , its just they dont like the alternative more.


....and as you cant come up with a solution to lab / tory tennis..................