Infamy, Infamy: Tory rebels want T May led Brexit Uprising vs Boris's EU WA Plan

[papasmurf]

The plot now thickens as Johnson is now talking about leaving the ECHR (europeean covention of human rignt's). This is also a corner stone within the GFA, so more problems for Johnson.  And before anyone gets their nickers in a knot, the ECHR has nothing to do with the EU, there are 47 countries signed up to it.

The problem is Bojo-The-Clown wants to take away all our human rights.

[Thomas]

srb7677 link=topic=1770.msg37203#msg37203 date=1599943756]

Why do you so obviously hate the EU so much when 62% of your nation, including Nicola Sturgeon and most of the SNP, wanted to stay in it?

I dont. How many times do i need to re tell you i voted remain , and was a mildly pro european.

....but if im asked to choose between overturning democracy to keep the uk in the eu,  then i choose democracy.

The snp grassroots are of one voice on this matter , they believe england and wales have the inalienable right to leave the eu as per the peoples vote.

On this issue you appear to be a Scottish nationalist who is flying in the face of the wishes of the SNP and your own people, often justifying this by reference to a British referendum, when most of the time you reject the very concept of Britishness

Nope.

Let me yet again reiterate my stance for you.

This wasnt a british referendum , gibraltar was involved too , which isnt part of "britian". I reluctantly accept though the reality of scotlands position as it stands , we are unfortunaately part of the uk.

My stance since the result came in in 2016 has been clear and unequivocal , northern ireland and scotland voted to stay , england and wales voted leave so demcoracy should be respected and a way found to implement this.

However , i keep being told by unionists like you we either have to leave or stay as one "country". So if a gun is held to my head , i choose democracy , and to implement the will of the people from 2016.

We could have been sitting on the sidelines eating popcorn watching all this enfold if we had voted to become indy in 2014 , but labour were determined to stand with their tory pals ,and stop scotland leaving their precious yookay , which is why we are where we are today.

If it wasnt for the labour party scotland would be an independent country today and part of the european union , and every scottish man woman and child know it. Which is why your party is shunned in scotland and on merely 17 % of the vote.

Nationalists like me despise you , and unionists have no use for you.

[GerryT]

The uk staying in the customes union was something neither her party  , nor the brexiting majority could ever accept . Her deal received one of the biggest defeats i have ever seen in the uk parliament , not once but what was it three feckin times?

The problem she faced, was the GFA meant no border in IRL. The only solution proposed was for NI to stay in the SM, which became the backstop but TM wouldn't split the UK so she had the whole UK in the Backstop and not just NI.
This infuriated some who cared nothing for NI, Johnson gave the answer, only NI would stay in the SM and that was his deal with the EU.

People might love Johnson, but he betrayed the UK with that deal and he can't slip out of it. It will ruin him. At least May understood and wasn't going to split the UK. She's ten times the PM Johnson is. She just found herself in a totally impossible position.

The plot now thickens as Johnson is now talking about leaving the ECHR (europeean covention of human rignt's). This is also a corner stone within the GFA, so more problems for Johnson.  And before anyone gets their nickers in a knot, the ECHR has nothing to do with the EU, there are 47 countries signed up to it.

[Borchester]

Reading the foreign press the main response seems to be that BoJo is a treacherous sod, which is pretty much a given anyway. But other than squealing Perfidious Albion every time matters aren't to their liking I can't see what come back the EU has.

So, sod the lot of them. Walk away, trade on world trade terms and abolish this Chinese flu before it screws up Christmas.

The EU initially won't do much as it will hurt them also, but if the UK persists down this line there is so much it can do. Fist as the UK would be breaching international law the EU can ignore and past present or future (from since the WA was signed) deals with the EU and under the WA treaty could impose sanctions, close borders and all done legally as per the WA terms so the EU wouldn't be breaching international law. Pity Johnson signed the UK up to such a treaty, he really is one of the most stupid people about.

Yeah, but they won't. You have been squealing about embargoes by the EU in general and the Irish Republic in particular since Paddy Peas got a load of German guns free of VAT.

And sod all has happened.

And won't happen this time.

What will happen is the Barnier will say something on the lines of Cent soixante-quinze centimètres de hauteur? Je ne savais pas qu'ils empilaient de la merde si haut, kick the cat (because he is an evil French git) and start haggling again. Boris will make a concession or two but in the end the UK will be a bit better off and the EU slightly worse.

[srb7677]

You liked mayhem  because she bendt down and kissed the eu`s arse .

Why do you so obviously hate the EU so much when 62% of your nation, including Nicola Sturgeon and most of the SNP, wanted to stay in it?

On this issue you appear to be a Scottish nationalist who is flying in the face of the wishes of the SNP and your own people, often justifying this by reference to a British referendum, when most of the time you reject the very concept of Britishness

[Thomas]

Totally wrong. May understood the impact of the WA and said "no UK PM could sign it" as it could have broke the UK up. She saw the only way to stop that happening and honour the GFA was to put in the BackStop. Thus in the event a solution to NI border couldn't be found the whole of the UK would stay in the customs union, until such a solution was found. She was an honourable politician and came up with solutions.

Johnson on the other hand dumped the backstop and put in the frontstop, which kept only NI in the customs union. The difference now was only NI would remain but instead of that being a maybe and something that might happen in the future, Johnson made it from day 1 2021. BOOM Johnson spectacular own goal, what an idiot. Now hes looking to break international law to squirm out of that. But it's now no longer a discussion but a international treaty and the UK can't get away from this. The treaty can't be ignored, there are repercussions for trying that.
Even if the UK don't act on the new legislation or even enact it. The damage has been done. It can't be undone.

Geez peace gerry.

You liked mayhem  because she bendt down and kissed the eu`s arse .

unfortunately though for you she isnt answerable to the eu , or ireland , she is answerable to the people of the uk and her party.

.....and pretty much everyone had the same opinion of her , ........someone completely out of her depth and way out of her comfort zone.

From nicola sturgeon , thorugh a raft of uk and european/worldwide politicians , she was regarded as cold and aloof , and also a complete total and utter muppet.

The uk staying in the customes union was something neither her party  , nor the brexiting majority could ever accept . Her deal received one of the biggest defeats i have ever seen in the uk parliament , not once but what was it three feckin times?

Good old and many of the english remainer supporters keep telling me the uk parliament is sovereign and can do as it pleases despite what the executive wants......well parliament certainly told theresa may straight , and so did the people.

[johnofgwent]

Now hang on before you all start on Theresa. She had the PM job at the worst possible moment and was commandeered by avid remainers and was a lady. BJ is proven not a gentleman but a maverick is what we need just now. If Theresa has been asked to lead the last gasp of the appeasers they must think she can do it. They know it will fail so nothing is lost and since she won't be there anyway she won't be put in yet another hot seat. Just don't be nasty about Theresa, she had a rotten job was severely bullied by the EU, and if I remember right she didn't even have to go to the last vote in the leadership battle. The rest chickened out.

She was an avid remainer from the start. She only got the job of PM because SOMEONE nobbled Bojo first time round. Or have you forgotten his 'I am not that man' speech.

She allowed one man to acquire oversight of three civil service departments NOT a special adviser as Cummings is who can be ditched but a permanent established civil servant.

And she threw away a working majority because a couple of dodgy geezers told her it was a good idea.

Sorry Toots. She deserves many unspeakable things. But leading a tory rebellion on a rocking horse might just make a bonfire night spectacle to restore the amusement in a year filled with shite.

[Baff]

The UK is a dolphin swimming in a big sea.
The EU is a whale swimming on a beach.

[T00ts]

The problem is the EU is a big boy and the UK a small child.

Thank you so much - I really needed a good giggle and that's the best one I've had for a while.

[Sheepy]

The EU sound a bit upset Gerry, oh well nevermind.

You'd be upset if the person you shook hands with and signed a deal with was going behind your back and planning to break the deal.

The problem is the EU is a big boy and the UK a small child. Lets hope the EU/UK don't end up in a political fight, the UK will get destroyed. You can't even feed yourselves.

Sounds like a lot of crying because it didn't go the EU's way from here, no worries the Trade deals have started coming in from elsewhere.

[GerryT]

The EU sound a bit upset Gerry, oh well nevermind.

You'd be upset if the person you shook hands with and signed a deal with was going behind your back and planning to break the deal.

The problem is the EU is a big boy and the UK a small child. Lets hope the EU/UK don't end up in a political fight, the UK will get destroyed. You can't even feed yourselves.

[GerryT]

Toots i fully stand by all that i have ever said about theresa may. Nothing to do with her being a female , she simply wasnt up to the job , and is one of the poorest politicians i have ever seen.

Totally wrong. May understood the impact of the WA and said "no UK PM could sign it" as it could have broke the UK up. She saw the only way to stop that happening and honour the GFA was to put in the BackStop. Thus in the event a solution to NI border couldn't be found the whole of the UK would stay in the customs union, until such a solution was found. She was an honourable politician and came up with solutions.

Johnson on the other hand dumped the backstop and put in the frontstop, which kept only NI in the customs union. The difference now was only NI would remain but instead of that being a maybe and something that might happen in the future, Johnson made it from day 1 2021. BOOM Johnson spectacular own goal, what an idiot. Now hes looking to break international law to squirm out of that. But it's now no longer a discussion but a international treaty and the UK can't get away from this. The treaty can't be ignored, there are repercussions for trying that.
Even if the UK don't act on the new legislation or even enact it. The damage has been done. It can't be undone.

[Sheepy]

Now hang on before you all start on Theresa. She had the PM job at the worst possible moment and was commandeered by avid remainers and was a lady. BJ is proven not a gentleman but a maverick is what we need just now. If Theresa has been asked to lead the last gasp of the appeasers they must think she can do it. They know it will fail so nothing is lost and since she won't be there anyway she won't be put in yet another hot seat. Just don't be nasty about Theresa, she had a rotten job was severely bullied by the EU, and if I remember right she didn't even have to go to the last vote in the leadership battle. The rest chickened out.

May is ten times the politician Johnson is.
Maverick, you mean Liar and untrustworthy.
How was May bullied by the EU, I seem to remember she was let down by her party.

The EU sound a bit upset Gerry, oh well nevermind.

[GerryT]

Now hang on before you all start on Theresa. She had the PM job at the worst possible moment and was commandeered by avid remainers and was a lady. BJ is proven not a gentleman but a maverick is what we need just now. If Theresa has been asked to lead the last gasp of the appeasers they must think she can do it. They know it will fail so nothing is lost and since she won't be there anyway she won't be put in yet another hot seat. Just don't be nasty about Theresa, she had a rotten job was severely bullied by the EU, and if I remember right she didn't even have to go to the last vote in the leadership battle. The rest chickened out.

May is ten times the politician Johnson is.
Maverick, you mean Liar and untrustworthy.
How was May bullied by the EU, I seem to remember she was let down by her party.

[GerryT]

Reading the foreign press the main response seems to be that BoJo is a treacherous sod, which is pretty much a given anyway. But other than squealing Perfidious Albion every time matters aren't to their liking I can't see what come back the EU has.

So, sod the lot of them. Walk away, trade on world trade terms and abolish this Chinese flu before it screws up Christmas.

The EU initially won't do much as it will hurt them also, but if the UK persists down this line there is so much it can do. Fist as the UK would be breaching international law the EU can ignore and past present or future (from since the WA was signed) deals with the EU and under the WA treaty could impose sanctions, close borders and all done legally as per the WA terms so the EU wouldn't be breaching international law. Pity Johnson signed the UK up to such a treaty, he really is one of the most stupid people about.