Tory Voters More Likely 'Dont care' if Scot Indy Happens

[Thomas]

Every thing you say there is a matter of opinion. Yours. 

Sure. Thats what this is...a debating forum where we share our opinions.

Its just that you opinion is so woefully out of touch its comical.

with acres of effort to show the world how plugged in you think you are.

no effort on my part old bean. In doing this in between work , and i assure you it takes no effort whatsoever to show up your opinion for the comical nonsense it is......you do that all yourself.

probably why a number of posters on this thread have been picking you up over the nonsense you talk.

[Good old]

A total manipulation of what is said to you. You do it. In every thread you get into. Not just to me but across the board.
I say good luck to Scotland, whatever path she ends up taking, she will need it as we all will whichever way she chooses to go.

So you tell me in every thread we debate and you get your arse handed to you on a plate as you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

If there isnt any problem as far as you can now tell , what are you on here talking about then?

Feck off and let those who want to debate the subject talk about it.

I think dyno is right about you , you are simply trolling the thread with utter cac now.

Every thing you say there is a matter of opinion. Yours.

Be grateful someone does.

I have nothing to do so I am off to sit in the garden.

I suggest that you do the same

Thanks for the advice, I have been in the garden all day , it's a cracking day again. Why let anyone in?, But  we do.

[papasmurf]

I have nothing to do so I am off to sit in the garden.

Where I live you would need to wear divers boots to sit down outside at the moment, due to the strength of the wind:-

[Borchester]

A total manipulation of what is said to you. You do it. In every thread you get into. Not just to me but across the board.
I say good luck to Scotland, whatever path she ends up taking, she will need it as we all will whichever way she chooses to go.

So you tell me in every thread we debate and you get your arse handed to you on a plate as you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

If there isnt any problem as far as you can now tell , what are you on here talking about then?

Feck off and let those who want to debate the subject talk about it.

I think dyno is right about you , you are simply trolling the thread with utter cac now.

Every thing you say there is a matter of opinion. Yours.

Be grateful someone does.

I have nothing to do so I am off to sit in the garden.

I suggest that you do the same

[Good old]

A total manipulation of what is said to you. You do it. In every thread you get into. Not just to me but across the board.
I say good luck to Scotland, whatever path she ends up taking, she will need it as we all will whichever way she chooses to go.

So you tell me in every thread we debate and you get your arse handed to you on a plate as you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

If there isnt any problem as far as you can now tell , what are you on here talking about then?

Feck off and let those who want to debate the subject talk about it.

I think dyno is right about you , you are simply trolling the thread with utter cac now.

Every thing you say there is a matter of opinion. Yours.  You are the one that responds to my posts , with acres of effort to show the world how plugged in you think you are. If the points I make to you are so far off the mark then why do you find the need to spend so much time , to come to the conclusion , I warrant nothing more than you using the pathetic  claim I  am a troll. Oh! Well if you think that keeps that massive ego in place, so be it.
As far as those who want to debate are concerned, don't you mean those who want to argue with you and share abuse and insult.?
Oh! By the way, I wonder how long it will be before you turn up on another one of the comments I make on another thread , ranting on about Starmer, when it has nothing to do with the thread . You should know what a troll is , only you obviously don't.

[Thomas]

A total manipulation of what is said to you. You do it. In every thread you get into. Not just to me but across the board.
I say good luck to Scotland, whatever path she ends up taking, she will need it as we all will whichever way she chooses to go.

So you tell me in every thread we debate and you get your arse handed to you on a plate as you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

If there isnt any problem as far as you can now tell , what are you on here talking about then?

Feck off and let those who want to debate the subject talk about it.

I think dyno is right about you , you are simply trolling the thread with utter cac now.

[Good old]

[quote

No one in scotland wants indy you tell me............its all the tories fault................britian won the war..............blah blah feckin blah yet you can't explain the absolute hatred the scottish people have for your labour party?
[/quote]

No I don't tell you . No one in Scotland wants Indy. No I don't say it's all the Tories fault , but  as they have dominated Westminster throughout the Twentieth, and Twenty first century. They have taken the lead in relations between government and Scotland. I never said Britain won the war ,Britain helped to win the war. And I have explained why Labour are rejected in Scotland. Hate is your theory. And it's your theory which applies to the rest of the claims you made in that piece.
A total manipulation of what is said to you. You do it. In every thread you get into. Not just to me but across the board.
I say good luck to Scotland, whatever path she ends up taking, she will need it as we all will whichever way she chooses to go.

[Thomas]

As most of your rants , end up in an attack on Labours contribution, not just Scotland, but the U.K. in general. Its obvious that , that message alone is every bit as important to you as . The Idea of Scots independence.
The Scots, reject Labour in Scotland , in the same way as they have rejected all other parties, other than the SNP. It's only to expected that as the former main party in Scotland, the focus of rejection would be on them.

You defend labour by saying the ills of the world arent labours fault , and when i ask why arent the scottish , who you tell me dont want indy , voting for labour then , you divert into yet more meaningless drivel and pish ?

Scotland hasnt rejected all other parties. Labours vote share has fallen dramatically compared to everyone else , while the SNP , tories and greens have increased. So what are you talking about yet again?

But Thomas, When given the opportunity to wash Labour completely out of their hair . They turned it down.

You have one mp out of 59 , are on 17 % of the vote  ,your party is in tatters north of the border with membership so low labour wont even comment on it , and funds completly dried up.

Theres a few soapy suds left at the end of the roots of our hair , but we will wash it out eventually

[Good old]

If Scotland, wants independence it will be more to do with, events of the last 40 years. Than any old beef,s of long ago.

Who is talking about "old beef from long ago" except you?

You trawl over events from three quarters of a century ago , "old beef from long ago" when there was a world war to TRY and justify britishness , so i counter with scottish history to justify scottishness , and you tell me thats old beef from long ago?



You "british" never shut up about your  fantasy "history" , which consists of a non stop cycle of talking about world war two.

There will be many reasons many scottish will want independence , for me , i have given you my reasons . Whatever you think is irrelevant , as you arent scottish and can't vote in any scottish indy ref.

Westminster , has been the culprit , a Westminster dominated by the Tories.

Childish screaming....."it was that big boy that did it mate no me"!

Tories. 28years to 12. Labour years. If you want to know who has been f—-ing Scotland , it's the party of the 28years. The Tories were in power , the lie was theirs . Labour didn't disassociate

So why arent the scottish public flocking to vote for labour then?

You are down to 17% of the vote in recent polls , and the tories have you in third place?

It was labour who corrputly ran glasgow city council for 80 years , and were booted out for their disgusting behaviour , no the tories.

It was labours robin cook who stitched up the scottish people over the 1979 devolution referendum.

It was tony blair who stole  6000 miles of scottish waters in 1999 , not the tories.

It was labour who played the sectarian card relentlessly in scotland over the decades , and filled their back pockets off the scottish people while using us as voting fodder.

It was labour who did the dirty work for the tories in 2014 , with labour figures leading the lies in keeping scotland in the union.

You sit and bleat about the tories , and tell me scotland doesnt want indy and all the ususal old tropes , but can't explain why labour are detested in scotland?

I can and i have.


LABOUR POLICY THURSDAY MORNING



LABOUR POLICY MONDAY MORNING

As most of your rants , end up in an attack on Labours contribution, not just Scotland, but the U.K. in general. Its obvious that , that message alone is every bit as important to you as . The Idea of Scots independence.
The Scots, reject Labour in Scotland , in the same way as they have rejected all other parties, other than the SNP. It's only to expected that as the former main party in Scotland, the focus of rejection would be on them.
But Thomas, When given the opportunity to wash Labour completely out of their hair . They turned it down. There you go explanation  for you to reject out of hand, as you are master of the frigging universe.

[Thomas]

But why would the Scots be so stupid as to take the word of a party that was not in power.

Labour lost more deposits in December than at any election since WW2 as its vote plunged to a record low, dropping below 20% in Scotland for the first time in more than 100 years.)

No one in scotland wants indy you tell me............its all the tories fault................britian won the war..............blah blah feckin blah yet you cant explain the absolute hatred the scottish people have for your labour party?

[Thomas]

If Scotland, wants independence it will be more to do with, events of the last 40 years. Than any old beef,s of long ago.

Who is talking about "old beef from long ago" except you?

You trawl over events from three quarters of a century ago , "old beef from long ago" when there was a world war to TRY and justify britishness , so i counter with scottish history to justify scottishness , and you tell me thats old beef from long ago?



You "british" never shut up about your  fantasy "history" , which consists of a non stop cycle of talking about world war two.

There will be many reasons many scottish will want independence , for me , i have given you my reasons . Whatever you think is irrelevant , as you arent scottish and can't vote in any scottish indy ref.

Westminster , has been the culprit , a Westminster dominated by the Tories.

Childish screaming....."it was that big boy that did it mate no me"!

Tories. 28years to 12. Labour years. If you want to know who has been f—-ing Scotland , it's the party of the 28years. The Tories were in power , the lie was theirs . Labour didn't disassociate

So why arent the scottish public flocking to vote for labour then?

You are down to 17% of the vote in recent polls , and the tories have you in third place?

It was labour who corrputly ran glasgow city council for 80 years , and were booted out for their disgusting behaviour , no the tories.

It was labours robin cook who stitched up the scottish people over the 1979 devolution referendum.

It was tony blair who stole  6000 miles of scottish waters in 1999 , not the tories.

It was labour who played the sectarian card relentlessly in scotland over the decades , and filled their back pockets off the scottish people while using us as voting fodder.

It was labour who did the dirty work for the tories in 2014 , with labour figures leading the lies in keeping scotland in the union.

You sit and bleat about the tories , and tell me scotland doesnt want indy and all the ususal old tropes , but can't explain why labour are detested in scotland?

I can and i have.


LABOUR POLICY THURSDAY MORNING



LABOUR POLICY MONDAY MORNING

[Good old]

You can twitter on about any number of past injustices, and ancient reasons for Scots to want independence.

I havent mentioned any past injustices. I gave you a brief history lesson , and scotland gave england over the centuries as good as it got.

I dont want independence because of some past "injustice" or ancient battle. I want independence as it is the norm for all countries around the world.

But for the best part of three hundred years  they have stayed in the union.

We have , but not through choice.

I already told you from 1707 to 1820 , the was constant armed uprising and rebellion aimed at breaking free . The twentieth century similarly was full of political manouvering aimed at taking scotland out of the union.

So for the majority of the three hundred years , there has barely been a time when scotland hasnt wanted independence.

Certainly in the twentieth century  union with England was never seriously questioned, to the degree it was ever likely to happen.

Macintyre won the first snp seat in 1945 , and the party treasurer john maccormack established the scottish convention , a body aimed at mobilising scottish opinion in pursuit of home rule.

Cormack established what became known as the (new) national covenant in 1949 , which garnered over 2 million signatures in favour of scottish home rule. Westminster attemtped to ignore it and brush it under the carpet.

We had winie ewing winning the famous by election result against labour in 1967 , and then the party doubled its vote in 1970. so thorughout the 60s and 70s the snp and support for indy was gradually growing ,and eventually we had the 1979 devolution fiasco and stitch up by labour where a yes to devolution vote became a no vote.

We had the SDA and other scottish political groups and figures appealing to the council of europe in the nineties , which then led to devolution being implented , and you tell me the union was never seriously questioned in the twentieth century?

Again you know nothing about history and politics beyond your own narrow fantasies.

Just a few years ago the little lady leader of the SNP couldn't get anyone to take a pamphlet from her on the streets.

Eh?

The SNP have been in power since 2007. This is now 2020. What are you gibbering  about now?

Devolution , pricked a bubble

What bubble?

and a bankers crisis followed by Tory austerity made a few ears go up.

More new labour revisionism.

Scotland has suffered more at the hands of labour in my opinion than any tory austerity.

Every area  , country or region you touch , you bring down into the cesspits with you.

If tory austerity is the reason why "a few ears have went up" in your weak opinion , why hasnt scotland ran into the arms of labour?

The question must have been in many minds , are the cracks appearing in our financial security in the U.K.

what financial security?

The question is now in many minds we can no longer afford to be in the uk as it is draining us dry.

Remember when lord jock macconnel , labour first minister of scotland , stepped over the poor begging in the streets of glasgow and handed back 2 billion of scottish taxpayers monery to blair and brown , and told them he couldnt spend it and was rewarded with ermine for services to the union and labour?

That financial security?

Even so a referendum still didn't show history  driving everyone in Scotland ,to independence.

I didnt say history did drive everyone in scotland to independence . You were the one blagging on about the dambusters and world war two and how we are all british fighting the germans in the never ending brit nat loop of talking about WW2.

300 years on though , and 62 % of scottish people still identifiy as scottish only in terms of national id. While your british identity can only manage 6%.

But then , came the great Tory , lie. Stay in the U K, and stay in the EU.

Nope that was the labour party.

Are you stupid?

Darling and milliband  ,along with labourites like blair macdougall , were the ones punting the lies to scotland. The tories funded them , and labour did the dirty work on the ground .Why do you think labour went on to lose 40/41 seats in the following election after the referendum?

But still to this day  we don't have an unmistakable wish for full independence 

Should Scotland be an independent country? (Survation, 2nd-7th September 2020)
Yes 53% (+3)
No 47% (-3)

"Ministers are increasingly nervous that a Scottish breakaway is on the cards (the cabinet was recently briefed that the latest opinion polls show 56% of Scots would vote for independence, and 44% to stay in the UK).

And even if recent polls show it could happen it's pretty narrow

Well we were told in 2014 55% no was "overwhelming , and now 56% Yes is narrow? 

.which means people are still divided history or otherwise.

show me a vote where people arent divided? There is never 100% in anything.

However , if independence won by 70% , you would still bleat about division , same as you are trying to bleat  about 52% somehow not being enough.

I dont recall you labour types moaning when tony blair won a landslide on less than 25% of 44.5 million people wo win the 2001 GE.

The thing  is Thomas, you might have known for years what you want for Scotland, but up to now it's not been what the Majority of Scots  would sanction

sure , but the majority of scots dont want what you want either.

. And the numbers would suggest a not very united Scotland.

More united than your country.

At least we indepdentists in scotland could take losing with grace , and accept the result and take our medicine , unlike you anti democrats in england who can't handle losing and have been whinging non stop about taking your medicine since 2016.

If Scotland, wants independence it will be more to do with, events of the last 40 years. Than any old beef,s of long ago.
Westminster , has been the culprit , a Westminster dominated by the Tories. 28years to 12. Labour years. If you want to know who has been f—-ing Scotland , it's the party of the 28years. The Tories were in power , the lie was theirs . Labour didn't disassociate , But why would the Scots be so stupid as to take the word of a party that was not in power.

[Good old]

This is all about choice. I think I knew that ,Pat.  Am I supposed to accept that as long as that's the case all choice is the right choice.?
I think if we are going to have referendum in Scotland every time  it's called for until they get the nod for independence , Then I think we should all do the honourable thing and put  the union flag in the bin.  It would have served its purpose.

Whether any choice is the right choice or not is the responsibility of those who make the choice, no one else — unless they interfered to influence the outcome. I believe the Scots were lied to in the run up to their last referendum — particularly when they were told the surest way to remain in the EU was to remain in the UK...
Whether there's another referendum on Scottish independence should depend on enough people putting forward a sufficiently compelling case to persuade everyone who has a significant stake in the outcome...

Of course people should have choices, and they are responsible for their choices. But I asked does that mean I or anyone else has to agree with the choice made , even if it is made in their name.?
I couldn't agree more. The Scots were lied to in the run up to their referendum. I said as much in a previous post.
I don't doubt their could be reason to have a second referendum in Scotland ,in the not to distant future .
But my essential point is if you promote that   don't wave a union flag,  as it's not compatible with saying . Yes by all means there's the door open it. And that does not mean I personally begrudge the Scots . It just means if I do it , I will not do it under a union flag. 

[Thomas]

How about another Brexit referendum next year then if it was called for?

sure once the result of 2016 is finally implemented and the uk is out the transition period , get campaigning to get you labour party into power offering the uk a referndum on going back into europe.

I`ll get the popcorn out and watch the english gie you a feckin kicking you will never forget.

[Good old]

I think if we are going to have referendum in Scotland every time  it's called for until they get the nod for independence

Eh?

Do you understand democracy and how it works good old?

I know you labour types dont like it , but heres how it goes.

You stand on a mandate , issue your promises and manifesto , and folk vote for you in an election , and if you win you take power.

When in government , you hold a referendum if thats what you are mandated to do. Once the result is know , you implement it.

Democracy by its very nature is one big neverendum.

What you labour remainer types seem to forget , is the bit where the results are implemented wether you agree or not.

How about another Brexit referendum next year then if it was called for?