The Internal market bill

[Sheepy]

In your scenario the UK is out in Jan, no trade deal, a broken legal contract and a border goes up in IRL, possibly bring back killings. Roll on 6 mths, 12 mths, 2 yrs. 5 yrs... The UK still doesn't have a trade deal. It's getting fined for breaking international law, possibly living with sanctions so it's export market (40% to EU and 20% to USA) is mostly trashed. LEt's see what that does to the opinion of the english electorate. Negioations restart and what's first on the agenda. 1. you owe us xyz for the costs associated with your actions 2. make the necessary changes in the UK to bring down the border in IRL. 3. So you want a FTA, here's the terms.

Sheep is right gerry you appear to be ranting.

You seem to be offering up a binary choice of accepting the WA and GFA , or breaking them.

The tories could of course offer a border poll , with the explicit condition that if northern ireland votes to stay in the uk , the GFA and WA will not apply , and they must fully leave the eu along with the rest of the uk.

Thats would shut the yanks up , and the eu  , and satisfy any laws and legal conditions .

On top of that , the uk would be saving a further 10 billion if  N.I voted  to leave the uk.  N.I is a place the majority in the uk couldnt care less about outwith the delusions of grandeur in westminster.

You are too sure thinking only the choices you talk about are the only way ahead , while as we all know politicians have a tendencey to fudge things going forward.

Dont be too sure of northern irelands importance , or as an achillies heel you remainers might want to use against the uk........i think you are overplaying your hand myself.

wait until the Brexit party are in the driving seat, then there will be some crying and wailing for sure.

[Sheepy]

I very much agree with Gerry that the EU is the largest FTA on the planet.
And this very much is an achievement.

I am pleased we left. I don't think FTA's are a good idea between rival economies.
That certainly isn't in line with classical thinking and the EU is often described as "an experiment".
But if being part of a giant FTA is your thing. The EU is the world leader in such things.

Not for me. But that is not to undermine the scale of the achievement.


The EU's external trade deals and trade relations are pants. Doggy doo doo.
But it's internal trade deal is the biggest international trade deal of them all.

wait for it, I told you the Tories would be pulling a flanker, they will be out to say the climb down isn't big enough. It will be coming for sure. I know just how the Westmister party works.

[Baff]

I very much agree with Gerry that the EU is the largest FTA on the planet.
And this very much is an achievement.

I am pleased we left. I don't think FTA's are a good idea between rival economies.
That certainly isn't in line with classical thinking and the EU is often described as "an experiment".
But if being part of a giant FTA is your thing. The EU is the world leader in such things.

Not for me. But that is not to undermine the scale of the achievement.


The EU's external trade deals and trade relations are pants. Doggy doo doo.
But it's internal trade deal is the biggest international trade deal of them all.

[Thomas]

In your scenario the UK is out in Jan, no trade deal, a broken legal contract and a border goes up in IRL, possibly bring back killings. Roll on 6 mths, 12 mths, 2 yrs. 5 yrs... The UK still doesn't have a trade deal. It's getting fined for breaking international law, possibly living with sanctions so it's export market (40% to EU and 20% to USA) is mostly trashed. LEt's see what that does to the opinion of the english electorate. Negioations restart and what's first on the agenda. 1. you owe us xyz for the costs associated with your actions 2. make the necessary changes in the UK to bring down the border in IRL. 3. So you want a FTA, here's the terms.

Sheep is right gerry you appear to be ranting.

You seem to be offering up a binary choice of accepting the WA and GFA , or breaking them.

The tories could of course offer a border poll , with the explicit condition that if northern ireland votes to stay in the uk , the GFA and WA will not apply , and they must fully leave the eu along with the rest of the uk.

Thats would shut the yanks up , and the eu  , and satisfy any laws and legal conditions .

On top of that , the uk would be saving a further 10 billion if  N.I voted  to leave the uk.  N.I is a place the majority in the uk couldnt care less about outwith the delusions of grandeur in westminster.

You are too sure thinking only the choices you talk about are the only way ahead , while as we all know politicians have a tendencey to fudge things going forward.

Dont be too sure of northern irelands importance , or as an achillies heel you remainers might want to use against the uk........i think you are overplaying your hand myself.

[GerryT]

The UK isn't changing anything.
What has the UK changed?

Brexit, it's leaving the greatest and largest FTA on the planet. It is re-writing it's rule book on how it will trade and has to start from the very back of the field and strike now deals. It's also looking to leave the ECHR and wants to rewrite its rule book on human rights and employment laws.
It has also agreed a new treaty and only 8 months later is looking to squirm out of it, that's a change.
The UK took a course of action that was totally contrary to the GFA, and without the EU and USA backing the UK wouldn't care one jot. Thats also change.

You wish to dictate to us what we can and cannot have.
But none of your agreements with us grant you that authority.
And you really hate that.
You really hate and despise that you can't push us around.
And you think this has changed.
You think you used to be able to and you still can.
But the only thing that has changed is that you are now realising that you can't and never could.
And all the rest is face saving self delusion.

I (or the EU) are not dictating what you can/can't have, the UK can do what it wants in the rest of the world. We have two agreements with the UK now, the WA and the GFA. Both are legally binding and if the UK thinks it can unilaterally change them their very much mistaken. The UK will be expected to honour it's agreement, nothing more and nothing less. Ifyou think the EU has no leverage in holding the UK accountable again your very much mistaken. And before you get your WW11 uniform out of the closet that's not how the EU does things. There are so many other actions the EU can do in a measured response to any course of action the UK takes.

The UK has offered to help enforce the EU single market by operating border checks on behalf of the EU, for goods crossing their border... ahead of that border on our side of it.
This is a pain in the arse. So say thanks or maybe we won't bother and you can build border checkpoints instead. Or leave the EU.
Or have a big old barney with the EU trying to get them not to fine you for not breaking the GFA by militarising your border. Or you can withdraw from the GFA.

That's great but the EU hasn't asked for any help, doesn't want any help and wouldn't trust the UK as far as it could throw a stone to enforce the single market border. The UK delusion just keeps growing. You do know the EU is levying a 2b fine on the UK over illegally importig over yrs when it was a member, so how could the EU trust the UK to do anything.
The UK has agreed to the WA, free choice, you used your sovereignty and if your not happy, blame your govt.
IRL won't have to militarise the border, nobody shooting at us, it's the UK side having brits shooting at them, UK problem.

It's your problem. You signed all these agreements.
If you find them incompatible with each other you can unsign them.
We have extended you the hand of friendship. Offered to help you with your problem.
And in return you are talking smack at us and trying to f**k us anyway you can.
Patience is wearing thin. Very thin.

Keep this up and we will just leave you alone to get on with it.

Laughable, the GFA and WA are in total sync so we are very very happy with both. It's the UK that signed them and its the UK that's now not happy with both of them. You haven't ever in history, ever offered the hand of friendship. We don't have any problem, the UK has many problems. I'm not at all fussed that your patience is wearing thin. WHat you need is a attitude adjustment, when you realise the UK is a small country and in this new world order it's the UK and not IRL that will be doing what it's told. Simple really, get used to that and you won't be so frustrated or impatient.

[Sheepy]

Joe Biden?
Come on to f**k gerry.
When obama told the english not to vote to leave the eu , he had people running to the voting booth to vote leave.

The UK are looking for a USA trade deal, that wouldn't solve UK problems but it would help. With Pelosi and Biden telling Rabb in so many words that he's full of sh1t and they know who's breaking the WA. Then politicians sent a letter to Boris, telling him break the GFA and there's no USA deal. I think JOhnson/Rabb thought the special relationship would bring the USA around, think again.
https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-us-uk-trade-deal-5205904-Sep2020/

The UK might plump for a China deal, you know, the next economic super power. The UK can't have both US and China deals as the US won't trade if you trade with China.

If joe biden keeps his nonsense up for votes that is very likely.

[Nick]

Joe Biden?
Come on to f**k gerry.
When obama told the english not to vote to leave the eu , he had people running to the voting booth to vote leave.

The UK are looking for a USA trade deal, that wouldn't solve UK problems but it would help. With Pelosi and Biden telling Rabb in so many words that he's full of sh1t and they know who's breaking the WA. Then politicians sent a letter to Boris, telling him break the GFA and there's no USA deal. I think JOhnson/Rabb thought the special relationship would bring the USA around, think again.
https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-us-uk-trade-deal-5205904-Sep2020/

The UK might plump for a China deal, you know, the next economic super power. The UK can't have both US and China deals as the US won't trade if you trade with China.

[Baff]

The UK isn't changing anything.
What has the UK changed?

You wish to dictate to us what we can and cannot have.
But none of your agreements with us grant you that authority.

And you really hate that.
You really hate and despise that you can't push us around.

And you think this has changed.
You think you used to be able to and you still can.

But the only thing that has changed is that you are now realising that you can't and never could.
And all the rest is face saving self delusion.



The UK has offered to help enforce the EU single market by operating border checks on behalf of the EU, for goods crossing their border... ahead of that border on our side of it.
This is a pain in the arse. So say thanks or maybe we won't bother and you can build border checkpoints instead. Or leave the EU.
Or have a big old barney with the EU trying to get them not to fine you for not breaking the GFA by militarising your border. Or you can withdraw from the GFA.

It's your problem. You signed all these agreements.
If you find them incompatable with each other you can unsign them.
We have extended you the hand of friendship. Offered to help you with your problem.
And in return you are talking smack at us and trying to f**k us anyway you can.
Patience is wearing thin. Very thin.

Keep this up and we will just leave you alone to get on with it.

[GerryT]

Not an issue for us. We aren't going to put one up.
If SI breaks it's treaty with us, we will deal with it at that time.

The problem here is essentially one between SI and the EU.
We've offered to help.  The rest is up to them.

Baff you have a funny way of looking at things. ROI is not doing anything. The UK is changing things. It doesn't take a genius to work out who's causing a break in the GFA. Even politicians 3000 miles away know the truth.
What your experiencing is good old british exceptionalism. Just because you want a clean brexit doesn't mean you can have it. The GFA needs to be sorted first. The WA did sort it and the current incumbent UK govt signed up to that solution. They agreed it was the answer, now because they feel like they look like the fools they are their kicking off. Throwing more lies at the EU and your the worse fool for believing it. Can't you look at both sides and think for yourself. No point in repeating "well we're not putting up a border" when your direct action necessitates a physical border.

The UK hasn't offered anything, all it's done is said what it doesn't want. There is no problem in the slightest between the EU & ROI, we agree on everything so far. The problem it seems is between the UK and now 60% (EU&USA) of it's trading partners.
I see Ian Duncan Smith has given Biden a dressing down, that's comical, here's a man standing up for Hong Kong against the Chinese oppressors while the UK follows China in intent to break international Law, The Irony of the situation is comical.

[Baff]

I think JOhnson/Rabb thought the special relationship would bring the USA around, think again.

The special relationship is Trump tells Bojo-The-Clown to jump and  Bojo-The-Clown asks how high.
Why people think the "Irish problem" is a small one frankly beggars belief. It was always going to be the big sticking point unless there is a free trade agreement between Britain and the EU.  Putting a physical border across the Island of Ireland and breaking the treaty is a very big problem not a tiny one.

Not an issue for us. We aren't going to put one up.
If SI breaks it's treaty with us, we will deal with it at that time.

The problem here is essentially one between SI and the EU.
We've offered to help.  The rest is up to them.

[Sheepy]

Would that be when they said we got more back than we gave the EU? until we produced the EU's own figures proving it was a blatant lie?

No that would be when Johnson the liar said the UK gave the EU 350m a week which is 18.2billion a yr. Until the EU pointed out that the UK gave about 7.5billion net. But for you to say that "they" who ever "they" are, gave more to the UK than received is another blatant lie. Unless you can show that.

Wake up and spell the coffee.

This sums it up..spilt coffee sounds about right for these negotiations.

What Coffee?, it is all political bullshit.

[GerryT]

Why people think that the UK remaining in the common fisheries policy and having any arbitration of a 'free trade deal ' referred to the European court of Justice is a small matter quite frankly beggars belief .  The EU seem to think we will be some sort of associate members ,they had best think again .

Neither of the two points you make are the truth. The UK will no be in the CFP as it will no longer be an EU member, and tit was agreed an independent body would over see any arbitration in a FTA.
The EU have no clue what the EU wants, two reasons, first the UK haven't told them and second the UK don't have a clue themselves.
All the UK has is "Brexit, we're leaving what don't you understand" but it's what's after that, that needs discussion/agreement.
Take this blockade that Johnson is lying about. The Eu have give 3rd country status to the EU based on the UK in transition following EU standards regarding food production/packaging etc.. But the EU has asked what will the UK standards be in January so they can see if they have an issue with any changes that don't meet EU standards. If there's no problem then the UK keeps the 3rd country status. But the UK haven't told the EU what changes it's making or what standards it will have in place in January. Either the UK doesn't know itself (most probably) or it's that the UK govt don't want to tell the UK people. Could be a bit of both. But Johnson decides to blame the EU for suggesting it may not be able to give 3rd country status. What Johnson leaves out is because he is stalling the process and is totally at fault, you couldn't make this stuff up (or in Johnson's case you can)

The UK will not break the Good Friday agreement by putting up a border , its practically impossible to do so anyway and there has been no mention or suggestion that the UK is pulling  out of the common travel area deal either . So whos going to put up a border ?

The UK will most def break the GFA by putting up a border, or causing the EU to erect a border. A Border was there not so long ago, I remember it well. The border won't stop smuggling but there has and can be a future border very very easily.
It doesn't matter WHO puts up the border, if NI is not aligned with the EU then there HAS to be a border. I shouldn't have to explain this as I'm sure your perfectly aware of the situation. But for some others that choose not to understand, think on it this way. IF two farmers own two vicious dogs separated by a fence. IF the UK farmer removes the fence and says "it's not my fault if the other guy puts up a fence". The reality is the other farmer has to there is no choice, the blame squarely sits with the UK actions.
You asking Who will put up a border is not the question. The question is who changed things so a border is now required.
That brakes the GFA.

[Borg Refinery]

Would that be when they said we got more back than we gave the EU? until we produced the EU's own figures proving it was a blatant lie?

No that would be when Johnson the liar said the UK gave the EU 350m a week which is 18.2billion a yr. Until the EU pointed out that the UK gave about 7.5billion net. But for you to say that "they" who ever "they" are, gave more to the UK than received is another blatant lie. Unless you can show that.

Wake up and spell the coffee.

This sums it up..spilt coffee sounds about right for these negotiations.

[Streetwalker]

So whos going to put up a border ?

They will have to be brave or stupid:-

So thats nobody then

[papasmurf]

So whos going to put up a border ?

They will have to be brave or stupid:-