The Internal market bill

[Sheepy]

No thanks Brussels.

Got anything else you wish to discuss or can all those overpaid people be sent home now?

Don't vote for us, we will kill untold millions, what sort of attitude is that? bunch of fecking psychos.

[Baff]

No thanks Brussels.

Got anything else you wish to discuss or can all those overpaid people be sent home now?

[GerryT]

No we wont be part of the CFP but the one of the sticking points of any deal that may be agreed is that the UK continue to allow EU boats access with quotas agreed by Brussels . You can call it what you like but for me thats being in a CFP if not the CFP

Not agreed by Brussels but with Brussels, a subtle difference. Brussels isn't dictating anything. It's totally up to the UK to let the EU access to fishing waters, it's a negioation, the EU is offering a market of 450m people with a 18T market place. The UK has a 65m people and a 2.5T market, the EU wants more than equal access and quite rightly, so fishing is on the table in there eyes. Not that it's worth much is a very small sector in reality.  At the end of the day the type of fish & quotas given to the EU is a UK decision. That's the way it should be. That goes for any sector, not just fishing, it's why trade deals take so long to agree.
The CFP is also key in managing fish stock, so even if the UK doesn't do a deal with the EU the EU will look to work with the UK on a common fish stock management agreement, it would be strange for the UK to say no, otherwise EU boats coupld just work along the divide and hoover up UK fish that don't understand borders.
Finally it's not so simple, alot of UK boats that hold quotas are owned by foreigners, what's the UK going to do, say that only owners of a business that are UK residents can have a business in the UK, good luck with that one.

Yes and independent body would be set up ,nominated by both the UK and the EU if disputes cannot be resolved by a joint committee . However if any dispute relates to EU law then said  arbitration panel would be obliged to ask the European  Union Court of Justice for a ruling which would be binding on the panel .

That's not exactly correct, if there is a question of EU law then that matter is referred to the EU, this could be a loop hole or something that doesn't fit into current EU law. In that case the EU might change or add a law. Then that goes back to the Joint committee or Arbitration panel and then a decision is made, which would very easily go in favour of the UK or EU in relation to the WA. Under no circumstance is the UK bound by EU law, which is what your sort of suggesting.

In addition UK courts will still refer cases of citizen rights to the ECJ for 8 years after we have left .

I'm not familiar with the WA provision regarding citizen rights, but EU people living in the UK and UK people living in the EU need their rights protected. Personally after the likes of windrush and the fact parliament thinks it can do whatever it want's if I lived in the UK I would prefer my current rights being protected by the ECJ, I wouldn't trust the UK Govt.

[Sheepy]

You seem to misunderstand the border poll, NI is in the UK, it can't vote to be in the uk, now can it. The provision in the GFA allows NI to vote for a united IRL, if that vote wasn't passed then NI stays where it is and another vote can't be held for a minimum of 7 yrs. A border poll can be held dozens of times, there's no limit. Always looking to unite IRL. What your suggesting is to somehow remove the option of a border poll from the GFA, that would be a unilateral change and would break international law, so that's not happening.
.

i misunderstand nothing.

You are diverting , and being completely disingenuous here.

If the tories offered up a border poll , and ni votes to reunite with the republic , there is no issue.

If northern ireland votes to remain in the uk , then it does so on the provision brexit is incompatible with northern irelands previous situation as "the uk " voted to leave the eu , so northern ireland must leave with the rest and accept the collateral damage that comes with it.

if that vote wasn't passed then NI stays where it is and another vote can't be held for a minimum of 7 yrs.

Who is saying different?

The GFA was drafted when N.I and the rest of the uk was in the eu , which is no longer the case.

N.I can no longer have the best of both worlds as the rest of the uk is no longer in the eu , so it must now choose. It will not hold the rest of the uk in the customs union , nor endanger what the majortiy voted for.

The irish tail wont be wagging the uk dog .

A border poll can be held dozens of times, there's no limit.

who is saying different?

What your suggesting is to somehow remove the option of a border poll from the GFA,

No im not , stop being disingenuous.

If northern ireland reunites , the GFA ceases to exist. If northern ireland votes to stay in the uk , it leaves the eu along with the rest , and can then have another border poll in 7 years.

As for the 10b that also includes contributions NI makes to UK defence and UK national debt, so it's not 10b, very like Scotland.

Nothing like scotland. Northern ireland is a net drain on the uk , scotland is a net contributor.

Thats one of the things every irishman , orange and green , says to me , that northern irelands problem is the fact it cannot support itself , and needs either the republic or the uk to maintain it with subisdy.

So what are you talking about?

As borkie says , you sound like a plastic paddy who has never set foot in ireland.

Why say remainer, the UK has left, no going back and you know I'm neither a remainer or brexiteer.

stope it gerry please FFS!!!

The default outcome is a hard brexit,

15 weeks to go.

He won't have to worry when Camerons world war hits for voting against the Westminster party loons.

[Thomas]

You seem to misunderstand the border poll, NI is in the UK, it can't vote to be in the uk, now can it. The provision in the GFA allows NI to vote for a united IRL, if that vote wasn't passed then NI stays where it is and another vote can't be held for a minimum of 7 yrs. A border poll can be held dozens of times, there's no limit. Always looking to unite IRL. What your suggesting is to somehow remove the option of a border poll from the GFA, that would be a unilateral change and would break international law, so that's not happening.
.

i misunderstand nothing.

You are diverting , and being completely disingenuous here.

If the tories offered up a border poll , and ni votes to reunite with the republic , there is no issue.

If northern ireland votes to remain in the uk , then it does so on the provision brexit is incompatible with northern irelands previous situation as "the uk " voted to leave the eu , so northern ireland must leave with the rest and accept the collateral damage that comes with it.

if that vote wasn't passed then NI stays where it is and another vote can't be held for a minimum of 7 yrs.

Who is saying different?

The GFA was drafted when N.I and the rest of the uk was in the eu , which is no longer the case.

N.I can no longer have the best of both worlds as the rest of the uk is no longer in the eu , so it must now choose. It will not hold the rest of the uk in the customs union , nor endanger what the majortiy voted for.

The irish tail wont be wagging the uk dog .

A border poll can be held dozens of times, there's no limit.

who is saying different?

What your suggesting is to somehow remove the option of a border poll from the GFA,

No im not , stop being disingenuous.

If northern ireland reunites , the GFA ceases to exist. If northern ireland votes to stay in the uk , it leaves the eu along with the rest , and can then have another border poll in 7 years.

As for the 10b that also includes contributions NI makes to UK defence and UK national debt, so it's not 10b, very like Scotland.

Nothing like scotland. Northern ireland is a net drain on the uk , scotland is a net contributor.

Thats one of the things every irishman , orange and green , says to me , that northern irelands problem is the fact it cannot support itself , and needs either the republic or the uk to maintain it with subisdy.

So what are you talking about?

As borkie says , you sound like a plastic paddy who has never set foot in ireland.

Why say remainer, the UK has left, no going back and you know I'm neither a remainer or brexiteer.

stope it gerry please FFS!!!

The default outcome is a hard brexit,

15 weeks to go.

[Barry]

The Irish/American vote is wagging the Presidential dog until the elections.

The democrats in the USA have always been a bit of a problem, as Obama was told to say by Cameron - "You would go to the back of the queue for a trade deal".
Trump will make a deal to spite the EU.

[GerryT]

I very much agree with Gerry that the EU is the largest FTA on the planet.
And this very much is an achievement.

That's a first

I am pleased we left. I don't think FTA's are a good idea between rival economies.
That certainly isn't in line with classical thinking and the EU is often described as "an experiment".
But if being part of a giant FTA is your thing. The EU is the world leader in such things.

Not for me. But that is not to undermine the scale of the achievement.

Most trade, over 90% of global trade is done under a FTA or bi-lateral trade agreements.
The EU is different as it not only removes tariff barriers, it also allows services to be included within the EU, which very very few, if any FTA's allow. Seen as though the UK economy is 80% services, WTO and FTA's are no help at all. The setup of the EU greatly helped the UK to expand it's domestic services sectors to secure business across Europe. That will end, not immediately, but in the coming years.

The EU's external trade deals and trade relations are pants. Doggy doo doo.
But it's internal trade deal is the biggest international trade deal of them all.

The EU has the largest amount of trade deals around the world, the UK is also loosing these. If you think the EU deals were Doggy doo doo, wait until you see the deals your lying, ignorant, self opinionated, empire politicians secure for you.

Take the Japan deal, you've tied your state aid up in a bind for a country that you sell 1.8% of your exports to, go global Britannia. And this was a show stopper for the UK-EU deal, no level playing field !!  Seems like anything the EU wants is a red line, but anything anyone else wants is ok, and sold back in the UK as a resounding will for the UK. Maybe your politicians are lying to you ?

[GerryT]

Sheep is right gerry you appear to be ranting.

When has sheepy even been right 

You seem to be offering up a binary choice of accepting the WA and GFA , or breaking them.
The tories could of course offer a border poll , with the explicit condition that if northern ireland votes to stay in the uk , the GFA and WA will not apply , and they must fully leave the eu along with the rest of the uk.
Thats would shut the yanks up , and the eu  , and satisfy any laws and legal conditions .
On top of that , the uk would be saving a further 10 billion if  N.I voted  to leave the uk.  N.I is a place the majority in the uk couldnt care less about outwith the delusions of grandeur in westminster.

You seem to misunderstand the border poll, NI is in the UK, it can't vote to be in the uk, now can it. The provision in the GFA allows NI to vote for a united IRL, if that vote wasn't passed then NI stays where it is and another vote can't be held for a minimum of 7 yrs. A border poll can be held dozens of times, there's no limit. Always looking to unite IRL. What your suggesting is to somehow remove the option of a border poll from the GFA, that would be a unilateral change and would break international law, so that's not happening.
As for the 10b that also includes contributions NI makes to UK defence and UK national debt, so it's not 10b, very like Scotland.

The EU response to UK childish tantrums is to ignore them, like a parent with a child screaming on the floor frothing at the mouth. I don't think either Trump, Biden or Pelosi will be so kind when that sort of toxic rhetoric starts coming out of the UK, and it will, the UK just can't help itself.

You are too sure thinking only the choices you talk about are the only way ahead , while as we all know politicians have a tendencey to fudge things going forward.
Dont be too sure of northern irelands importance , or as an achillies heel you remainers might want to use against the uk........i think you are overplaying your hand myself.

Why say remainer, the UK has left, no going back and you know I'm neither a remainer or brexiteer.  The default outcome is a hard brexit, the EU has said the end of Sept (9 working days left) is the cut off or their isn't time to get any deal ratified. There is only a binary outcome, either the UK does a deal or goes to WTO.

[T00ts]

The UK might plump for a China deal, you know, the next economic super power. The UK can't have both US and China deals as the US won't trade if you trade with China.

So let me translate. The UK can't get a deal with the EU, it's pissing off the Americans and you think the kind and gentle China will do a deal. Is this the same China that the UK recently was wagging it's finger at over Hong Kong, and now Ironically following in their footsteps by breaking international law. Is this also the China that that the UK shafted.
Now it seems the Trump camp is telling the UK not to break the GFA.

The Irish/American vote is wagging the Presidential dog until the elections.

[GerryT]

The UK might plump for a China deal, you know, the next economic super power. The UK can't have both US and China deals as the US won't trade if you trade with China.

So let me translate. The UK can't get a deal with the EU, it's pissing off the Americans and you think the kind and gentle China will do a deal. Is this the same China that the UK recently was wagging it's finger at over Hong Kong, and now Ironically following in their footsteps by breaking international law. Is this also the China that that the UK shafted.
Now it seems the Trump camp is telling the UK not to break the GFA.

[Sheepy]

The NHS has had funding in excess of the Bus so your point is irrelevant.

The NHS needing funding has never been at question. It's being about who pays. Johnson said the money wasted going to the EU would be used for the NHS. It now turns out you and other taxpayers are footing the bill. Your also footing the over £130b it's cost the UK so far over brexit. Any you will cost the impact of sterling falling 30% against the Euro since brexit started.
But you'll get your sovereignty back, oh wait you've signed over some to the EU in the WA and you are signing over control of state aid in the Japan deal. Wonder how much more the UK will sign over in USA and China deals. You see that's the problem with having a convicted liar at the helm, you just can't believe a word he says.

well who knew Gerry, that politicians are devious bastards, thanks for the explanation.

You get what you vote for

Well eventually we may,despite the efforts of Bliar,Major,Cameron the runaway et al

As aside I was watching a car review on YouTube the other day and the commentator was saying what a smooth ride the car had (in Spain) because they resurface their roads every year courtesy of the eu,meanwhile ours are like cart tracks, still Gerry you say we will be in decline and penury for decades and will need to rejoin so we can rely on you to cough up to bring us back to prosperity 

eventually Mr Ben, eventually.

[Nick]

Brexit, it's leaving the greatest and largest FTA on the planet.

Largest:    Everything outside it is bigger.
Greatest:   It's a self serving cartel that hikes prices of goods inside and applies tariffs to anything coming in. BTW, shit scared of a U.K. free to do what it wants on its borders. Not my vision of great.

The rest of the world could squeeze it into submission within 6 months if we chose to. Do you deny that?

The EU represents only 15% of world trade, you argue that the EU is the biggest and best FTA. The German car industry sells 15% of all cars it produces to the U.K. but you tell us the U.K. is insignificant.

For once Gerry, answer the points raised.

[cromwell]

The NHS has had funding in excess of the Bus so your point is irrelevant.

The NHS needing funding has never been at question. It's being about who pays. Johnson said the money wasted going to the EU would be used for the NHS. It now turns out you and other taxpayers are footing the bill. Your also footing the over £130b it's cost the UK so far over brexit. Any you will cost the impact of sterling falling 30% against the Euro since brexit started.
But you'll get your sovereignty back, oh wait you've signed over some to the EU in the WA and you are signing over control of state aid in the Japan deal. Wonder how much more the UK will sign over in USA and China deals. You see that's the problem with having a convicted liar at the helm, you just can't believe a word he says.

well who knew Gerry, that politicians are devious bastards, thanks for the explanation.

You get what you vote for

Well eventually we may,despite the efforts of Bliar,Major,Cameron the runaway et al

As aside I was watching a car review on YouTube the other day and the commentator was saying what a smooth ride the car had (in Spain) because they resurface their roads every year courtesy of the eu,meanwhile ours are like cart tracks, still Gerry you say we will be in decline and penury for decades and will need to rejoin so we can rely on you to cough up to bring us back to prosperity 

[Sheepy]

Neither of the two points you make are the truth. The UK will no be in the CFP as it will no longer be an EU member, and tit was agreed an independent body would over see any arbitration in a FTA.

No we wont be part of the CFP but the one of the sticking points of any deal that may be agreed is that the UK continue to allow EU boats access with quotas agreed by Brussels . You can call it what you like but for me thats being in a CFP if not the CFP

Yes and independent body would be set up ,nominated by both the UK and the EU if disputes cannot be resolved by a joint committee . However if any dispute relates to EU law then said  arbitration panel would be obliged to ask the European  Union Court of Justice for a ruling which would be binding on the panel .

In addition UK courts will still refer cases of citizen rights to the ECJ for 8 years after we have left .

you all stress too much, we all know the  tories will try and bolt us up, they cannot help themselves they are no less born liars than New Labour, Farage is preparing himself and gould help them when we let him tear through Parliament and bring direct democracy. He is a believer.

[Streetwalker]

Neither of the two points you make are the truth. The UK will no be in the CFP as it will no longer be an EU member, and tit was agreed an independent body would over see any arbitration in a FTA.

No we wont be part of the CFP but the one of the sticking points of any deal that may be agreed is that the UK continue to allow EU boats access with quotas agreed by Brussels . You can call it what you like but for me thats being in a CFP if not the CFP

Yes and independent body would be set up ,nominated by both the UK and the EU if disputes cannot be resolved by a joint committee . However if any dispute relates to EU law then said  arbitration panel would be obliged to ask the European  Union Court of Justice for a ruling which would be binding on the panel .

In addition UK courts will still refer cases of citizen rights to the ECJ for 8 years after we have left .